Dating and Attraction

[Bales Rant]

Other posters have mentioned some of the most important things such as making sure your appearance is up to scratch (nice footwear is important) and being confident but keeping it natural.

Now, I'm not a man with loads of experience but one thing I've noticed is that a lady will become more interested in you if you don't show too much interest in her. Obviously, such a game is both risky and tricky and whether to use it depends on context and your judgement based on experience (or initution the first time) - things such as the setting, whether you've been introduced by a mutual friend at a house party (like I was), or whether you've just randomly met in a bar etc. So, you don't want to come across as completely disinterested or aloof or a sociopath because she will become completely disinterested very quickly. But if you get the balance right by 'playing it cool' and not revealing too much about yourself or spending all night talking with just her, she might well wonder why you're not so forthcoming with her and it therefore adds to your mystic. This is good.

Secondly, if you've gone on to gain a lady's interest, sometimes - but by no means all of the time - she will test your strength of character by playfully insulting you or something about you. Even if it's funny don't laugh just smile slightly and immediately hitback with a similar playful insult that one-ups her. She is testing whether you will stand up for yourself, and hence her. This is also good.

I'm not particularly confident, I'm quite shy, plus I don't think much of myself in terms of attractiveness, so the most important thing for me is to gauge whether she is attracted to me and hence whether it's worth bothering asking her out in the first place. 90% of it is in her body language and mannerisms.

I don't know them all but these are the major ones I look(ed) for: eye contact (makes eye contact, quickly looks down or to the sides, back to eye contact), legs crossed pointing towards you, playing with or otherwise managing her hair, the closer her promixity to you the better, exposing her palms and wrists towards you and/or touching her neck, mimicing your behaviour (i.e. you take a sip of your drink and then she does), she finds excuses to touch you or does it in casual passing, she rubs the lips of her mouth together, she might ask you about your relationship status, she might well laugh at your unfunny jokes, she will use your name in conversation, and she will smile - alot.

[The Blaatschapen]

Other posters have mentioned some of the most important things such as making sure your appearance is up to scratch (nice footwear is important) and being confident but keeping it natural.

Now, I'm not a man with loads of experience but one thing I've noticed is that a lady will become more interested in you if you don't show too much interest in her. Obviously, such a game is both risky and tricky and whether to use it depends on context and your judgement based on experience (or initution the first time) - things such as the setting, whether you've been introduced by a mutual friend at a house party (like I was), or whether you've just randomly met in a bar etc. So, you don't want to come across as completely disinterested or aloof or a sociopath because she will become completely disinterested very quickly. But if you get the balance right by 'playing it cool' and not revealing too much about yourself or spending all night talking with just her, she might well wonder why you're not so forthcoming with her and it therefore adds to your mystic. This is good.

Secondly, if you've gone on to gain a lady's interest, sometimes - but by no means all of the time - she will test your strength of character by playfully insulting you or something about you. Even if it's funny don't laugh just smile slightly and immediately hitback with a similar playful insult that one-ups her. She is testing whether you will stand up for yourself, and hence her. This is also good.

I'm not particularly confident, I'm quite shy, plus I don't think much of myself in terms of attractiveness, so the most important thing for me is to gauge whether she is attracted to me and hence whether it's worth bothering asking her out in the first place. 90% of it is in her body language and mannerisms.

I don't know them all but these are the major ones I look(ed) for: eye contact (makes eye contact, quickly looks down or to the sides, back to eye contact), legs crossed pointing towards you, playing with or otherwise managing her hair, the closer her promixity to you the better, exposing her palms and wrists towards you and/or touching her neck, mimicing your behaviour (i.e. you take a sip of your drink and then she does), she finds excuses to touch you or does it in casual passing, she rubs the lips of her mouth together, she might ask you about your relationship status, she might well laugh at your unfunny jokes, she will use your name in conversation, and she will smile - alot.

*tries to memorize that whole list of things she might do*

Can't she just say it? Much easier *nods*

[Tahar Joblis]

Now, I'm not a man with loads of experience but one thing I've noticed is that a lady will become more interested in you if you don't show too much interest in her.

This is true.

Obviously, such a game is both risky and tricky and whether to use it depends on context and your judgement based on experience (or initution the first time) - things such as the setting, whether you've been introduced by a mutual friend at a house party (like I was), or whether you've just randomly met in a bar etc. So, you don't want to come across as completely disinterested or aloof or a sociopath because she will become completely disinterested very quickly. But if you get the balance right by 'playing it cool' and not revealing too much about yourself or spending all night talking with just her, she might well wonder why you're not so forthcoming with her and it therefore adds to your mystic. This is good.

Baiting and teasing also works on men. If anything, "playing hard to get" works better on men than it does on women - with women, you have to balance playing hard to get with making sure you've got her attention in the first place, since she's typically employing a passive approach. For women dealing with certain men, in fact, the "slut" factor of the Madonna/Whore complex sometimes makes playing hard to get necessary to get anywhere serious.

Playing hard to get a pretty clever method of manipulation, and it works reasonably well. People tend to value things that they worked hard to get a lot more, and that includes relationships.

[Tahar Joblis]

*tries to memorize that whole list of things she might do*

Can't she just say it? Much easier *nods*

Much easier for you. But for her?

Saying directly that you're attracted makes you vulnerable to direct rejection - painful, status-lowering, et cetera. It also makes you vulnerable in another sense - it puts the other person in a position to take advantage of you. It's generally the one who is more attracted who has less power, so admitting attraction openly is hazardous for that reason as well.

[Bales Rant]

*tries to memorize that whole list of things she might do*

Can't she just say it? Much easier *nods*

I long for that day. It's like trying to draw blood from a stone sometimes!

[Arkinesia]

Not really. Your analogy was quite sexist. The art of "picking up chicks" is quite sexist in and of itself. Your analogies involving women as fish to be caught or deer to be hunted is quite dehumanizing, and it suggests that you see male/female relationships as inherently predatory.

Maybe you're projecting. I went to college on a campus that had a lot of deer and seeing them was part of the delight of being there...but if you went around screaming at them they'd never show up. Did you ever think about that? Did you, huh? That maybe people might have another reason for wanting to run into a deer other than hunt it? No, you didn't. You shouldered in with your expectations, projecting your 'hunting centric' view of the world on everyone...do you feel proud of yourself, what with your inability to view deer as nothing other than targets for hunters?

See, I can extrapolate too.

What kind of dumbass hunter runs around screaming?

I don't usually take 4ST's side but he's got a point in this case.

[The-_Sicarii]

just be yourself.

Don't pull sexist jokes, don't swear a ton, don't be a jerk, and just be friendly. That is generally enough for any girl worth the effort.

[The Congregationists]

Now, I'm not a man with loads of experience but one thing I've noticed is that a lady will become more interested in you if you don't show too much interest in her.

This is true.

Obviously, such a game is both risky and tricky and whether to use it depends on context and your judgement based on experience (or initution the first time) - things such as the setting, whether you've been introduced by a mutual friend at a house party (like I was), or whether you've just randomly met in a bar etc. So, you don't want to come across as completely disinterested or aloof or a sociopath because she will become completely disinterested very quickly. But if you get the balance right by 'playing it cool' and not revealing too much about yourself or spending all night talking with just her, she might well wonder why you're not so forthcoming with her and it therefore adds to your mystic. This is good.

Baiting and teasing also works on men. If anything, "playing hard to get" works better on men than it does on women - with women, you have to balance playing hard to get with making sure you've got her attention in the first place, since she's typically employing a passive approach. For women dealing with certain men, in fact, the "slut" factor of the Madonna/Whore complex sometimes makes playing hard to get necessary to get anywhere serious.

Playing hard to get a pretty clever method of manipulation, and it works reasonably well. People tend to value things that they worked hard to get a lot more, and that includes relationships.

QFT. Get the balance right and the battle's 80% won.

[Cannot think of a name]

Not really. Your analogy was quite sexist. The art of "picking up chicks" is quite sexist in and of itself. Your analogies involving women as fish to be caught or deer to be hunted is quite dehumanizing, and it suggests that you see male/female relationships as inherently predatory.

For once, I agree. He could have used a better analogy. Still made me

While I agree that the hunting metaphor paints things in a too adversarial light making us lose track of the fact that we are looking for a partner and not a trophy, sometimes a cigar is just a good smoke. Hunting metaphors when you are searching for things are ubiquitous and do not only imply violence...unless you think that 'bargain hunters' secretly wish to shoot quality goods and low low prices.

Less threatening synopsis of the "girl-hunting" metaphor: be Zen.

This, however, is always good advice.

[Nornalhorst]

This is true.

Baiting and teasing also works on men. If anything, "playing hard to get" works better on men than it does on women - with women, you have to balance playing hard to get with making sure you've got her attention in the first place, since she's typically employing a passive approach. For women dealing with certain men, in fact, the "slut" factor of the Madonna/Whore complex sometimes makes playing hard to get necessary to get anywhere serious.

Playing hard to get a pretty clever method of manipulation, and it works reasonably well. People tend to value things that they worked hard to get a lot more, and that includes relationships.

QFT. Get the balance right and the battle's 80% won.

Man too bad relationships require such confusing games.

[Provosa]

It's not incredibly complicated, but here's something not to do:

I walked out of a club last week. I was around 20 degrees outside and I had no jacket, so I hurried to my car, but I get poked on the back and this guy wants my number and all that. I don't know anything about him, his interests, or anything, and he asks these things of me in a robotic manner. I show distanced body language and communicate how cold it is outside, that I just want to get in my car and go to sleep.

Fast forward to this week. He singles me out again and tries talking again. Doesn't share any interests or questions or ideas whatsoever. Just asks "Why can't we be friends?"

This put me on the defensive. I feel that if you're entering a club, leave any negativity at the door and promote everyone's happiness. But I had nothing to go on for this person -- I knew nothing about him and didn't really want to, the more I heard him speak.

I responded something like "This is unnatural. Do what you love and friends will just happen." I felt bad eh.

[Gallade]

It's not incredibly complicated, but here's something not to do:

I walked out of a club last week. I was around 20 degrees outside and I had no jacket, so I hurried to my car, but I get poked on the back and this guy wants my number and all that. I don't know anything about him, his interests, or anything, and he asks these things of me in a robotic manner. I show distanced body language and communicate how cold it is outside, that I just want to get in my car and go to sleep.

Fast forward to this week. He singles me out again and tries talking again. Doesn't share any interests or questions or ideas whatsoever. Just asks "Why can't we be friends?"

This put me on the defensive. I feel that if you're entering a club, leave any negativity at the door and promote everyone's happiness. But I had nothing to go on for this person -- I knew nothing about him and didn't really want to, the more I heard him speak.

I responded something like "This is unnatural. Do what you love and friends will just happen." I felt bad eh.

Don't feel bad. This guy is following you to your car late at night. That's creep-tacular.

[The Congregationists]

Man too bad relationships require such confusing games.

It does and it doesn't. This is actually way, way more simple than you realize. In a way, it's a lot like Zen or Tao - trying to do it and reasoning it out is guaranteed to fail. It basically boils down to living a good life for its own sake. Think of the old story (Taoist I believe) about trying to catch a butterfly.

I'm not ordinarily given to plugging stuff like this - I have no need for it given that I've been married as long as some of you have been alive. But the link below is a good read on the subject. Give it a whirl.

http://www.attractioninstitute.org/book/free-chapter

[Samuraikoku]

http://www.attractioninstitute.org/book/free-chapter

What happens when you don't have that kind of possibility?

[Disserbia]

Hmm Depends if you take care of yourself

And also depends on what car you own i myself own a 1978 Trans Am 455 which my baby loves too xD

[The Congregationists]

http://www.attractioninstitute.org/book/free-chapter

What happens when you don't have that kind of possibility?

Depends why that would be, Samuraikoku?

My observation and experience has been that the "involuntarily single" always have some hand in the authoring of their fate, although external circumstance can possibly impose that state on someone - the result of disease, accident, destitution or other misfortune. I don't know if that's your case. That said, the article I referenced wasn't just for "pick up artists." Those who most need the help in finding a mate can gain the most benefit from what it has to say. Read it.

[Samuraikoku]

Depends why that would be, Samuraikoku?

My observation and experience has been that the "involuntarily single" always have some hand in the authoring of their fate, although external circumstance can possibly impose that state on someone - the result of disease, accident, destitution or other misfortune. I don't know if that's your case. That said, the article I referenced wasn't just for "pick up artists." Those who most need the help in finding a mate can gain the most benefit from what it has to say. Read it.

Thank goodness I didn't suffer something extremely dramatic (so I'm not a broken person) as accidents, disease or destitution. But I can't figure out how to "lead a fulfilling life filled with fun and adventure" at this point in my life.

[Heterodox Economists]

I'm going to try make this as least bloggy as possible but I'm a pretty shy guy, nerdy, not very charismatic, with no understanding of women or really any social skill (I also find it extremely difficult to read body language and social cues so flirting is an alien concept), and zero sexual or relationship experience (well I've managed to go on a couple of "dates" before but they were total failures as the girls were just playing me the entire time, one date the girl tried her best to make it hell, and one other date no one even showed up) of any sort so I was wondering how exactly does someone get a girlfriend?

What makes some people unable to get a "mate" and others highly successful?

Also I was wondering how does someone go about dating and "asking someone out".

What were your dating experiences like?

I'll probably think of more questions as the thread progresses.

Just be yourself. Remember that roughly 50% of the worlds population are woman, there is an abundance. Some of those are bound to have a fetish for shy guys like yourself. So just be you and roll with it.

[The Blaatschapen]

Man too bad relationships require such confusing games.

It does and it doesn't. This is actually way, way more simple than you realize. In a way, it's a lot like Zen or Tao - trying to do it and reasoning it out is guaranteed to fail. It basically boils down to living a good life for its own sake. Think of the old story (Taoist I believe) about trying to catch a butterfly.

I'm not ordinarily given to plugging stuff like this - I have no need for it given that I've been married as long as some of you have been alive. But the link below is a good read on the subject. Give it a whirl.

http://www.attractioninstitute.org/book/free-chapter

Hey, that chapter makes sense actually. I seem to get the most attention when I'm already having a good time on my own.

[Nornalhorst]

What happens when you don't have that kind of possibility?

Depends why that would be, Samuraikoku?

My observation and experience has been that the "involuntarily single" always have some hand in the authoring of their fate, although external circumstance can possibly impose that state on someone - the result of disease, accident, destitution or other misfortune. I don't know if that's your case. That said, the article I referenced wasn't just for "pick up artists." Those who most need the help in finding a mate can gain the most benefit from what it has to say. Read it.

Hmm read it, so basically stop caring and just do whatever I like and somehow this attracts women? Sounds strange, anyway I've done that for about a year now just hanging out with my friends, trying to have fun, and not caring about women, while women never seemed interested in me at all, at least I could care less but I did feel alot more confident in myself back then as my life seemed pretty good, but now my life feels like it is going down the tubes as I am buried in studying and stress in college where I am failing all my major classes (brain too stupid to comprehend anything) and nearly all other areas in my life and I just feel like a retarded failure it would just be so nice to have some sort of brain enhancement like NZT from the movie Limitless it would make my life so much better (I do try to appear more confident in public though). I guess the best thing for me to do is to just give up on finding anyone at least for now.

[The-_Sicarii]

I'm going to try make this as least bloggy as possible but I'm a pretty shy guy, nerdy, not very charismatic, with no understanding of women or really any social skill (I also find it extremely difficult to read body language and social cues so flirting is an alien concept), and zero sexual or relationship experience (well I've managed to go on a couple of "dates" before but they were total failures as the girls were just playing me the entire time, one date the girl tried her best to make it hell, and one other date no one even showed up) of any sort so I was wondering how exactly does someone get a girlfriend?

What makes some people unable to get a "mate" and others highly successful?

Also I was wondering how does someone go about dating and "asking someone out".

What were your dating experiences like?

I'll probably think of more questions as the thread progresses.

Dude, you asked this question on NationStates... You do realise why we all waste our time on NS, right?

In all seriousness though, I've been the nice guy my whole life and was asked out by the female version of myself for being odd... You just never know. Find a nerdy girl though, they're the ones worth having.

So true. Never go out with someone who will dump you the minute they think they have a chance with someone "hotter" than you.

[Caninope]

I've always assumed something about mutual social circles. I'm not particularly interested in the field, personally, but I find it fascinating.

You're not interested in the field?

*ponders all the jokes to be made*

[The Congregationists]

To be honest though, I think there's a large social dimension to this. For one thing, women are under enormous pressure to "play hard to get" so to speak. Appearing too friendly with the guys opens them up to all kinds of generally negative consequences - from "slut" shaming to an out-and-out "she was asking for it" kind of scenario unfolding. Also, the expectation to live up to some sort of pseudo feminist standard of "independance" which seems increasingly to preclude any sort of attraction to or intimacy with men. Finally there are economic factors, some of these quite daunting. Many people, male and female, put off relationships until their schooling's done or they're gainfully employed. Finally, and I think most significantly, we're inundated with popular culture that presents us with fantasy images that are practically unattainable. Couple that with a tendancy towards entitlement attitudes and it's increasingly impossible for common men (and women) to measure up to the standards necessary to be a datable partner, and a strong social tabboo against lowering such standards; not "settling" as the saying goes.

All in all, it's hard and getting harder. Honestly, I weep for the future as it seems that more and more of them will be locked out of the prospect for any kind of intimate relationship whatsoever.

[Samuraikoku]

This is all I seek. But it seems too hard nowadays...

[Mad Shaggers]

the offer of catching up for a coffee or dinner with a chick your keen on is the first step.
Self confidence is the key to it. chicks can smell your fear and unlike a bull-terrier who will hump your leg and maul your face, a chick will just ditch you.
You must make direct eye contact and keep a confident, relaxed demenor. dont grin like a retard at her.
chicks love humor as long as its good humor, shit jokes are a no no it must be impromtue and blend into a serious conversation.
ask her about her and listen like you give a shit even though you might want to open your veins with a butter knife.
dont talk about yourself unless she asks.
never talk about ex's. you might as well cut your own balls off for all the attention they will be getting if you go down this road.
dress sharp, not too formal or too homeless, have fresh breath and appear sucessfull. a chicks not going to let you bone her if she thinks your a future garbage collector. talk about career aspirations if the topic arises.
always always pay. even if she resembles a pig dog and is boring as bat shit always pay. she might have hot friends and she will no doubt tell them about you. better good then bad.
and lastly, dont appear desperate. its better to have had a good nite and make a friend then get shitty coz you dont get asked in for coffee and sulk coz "she dosent want to bone me" after a date, a kiss on the cheek and offer of another catch up, this time more relaxed like a dvd and a drink or a trip to the beach is always a winner. if she says yes then your on your way to a relationship if you dont fuck it up, and if she says no dont stress it may take a few times to find the right one.