Dating and Attraction

[Tahar Joblis]

More seriously, 4ST, it's not how sex and relationships work; it's what (unfortunately) works to get you sex and into relationships.

Since that's how you get sex and relationships, this means that such horrid behavior is a necessary step in such things. Therefore, it is immoral to pursue them, correct?

No, it's not a necessary step. It's an effective step - something that isn't quite sufficient, but with your mathematical background, I think you should understand the difference between necessary and sufficient, or in this case, the slightly weaker cousin of sufficiency, which is efficacy.

[Metanih]

More seriously, 4ST, it's not how sex and relationships work; it's what (unfortunately) works to get you sex and into relationships.

Since that's how you get sex and relationships, this means that such horrid behavior is a necessary step in such things. Therefore, it is immoral to pursue them, correct?

I'll have you know that that has never been a part of the relationships I have been in.

[Four-sided Triangles]

I'll have you know that that has never been a part of the relationships I have been in.

How can you be sure?

[Saint Jade IV]

Nope.

I can also give you the skinny on how to have an easy time getting a boyfriend, if you like. It's not much more cheering, come down to it:

1.) Be skinny.
2.) Look pretty.
3.) Treat men like objects.
4.) Be ruthlessly manipulative.
5.) Lower standards, rinse, and repeat.

It's a little simpler for shy girls to get a boyfriend for the first time, because we expect men to take the active role in courtship and women to reject most of their suitors; all most women have to do to break a single spell is to lower their standards. This is why men bitch about not getting dates and women bitch about having shitty dates, really.

Yeah, I'm rejecting this. I don't see why one should be manipulative and treat the other group like objects. How would that give you a partner?

Edit: Just to be sure, I also reject being skinny and several other of the things on the list(save for perhaps getting a job, but that lies more in the self-improvement direction). But the two things I mentioned above are common in either list, so I'll attack those first

I tend to agree a little with TJ here. I have had exactly one boyfriend in my life, despite every male I know telling me:

A) how hot I am
B) how great I am
C) how much they would love a girl like me

who then go and get into dreadful relationships where the spend the entirety of their time bitching about their partner.

[Metanih]

I'll have you know that that has never been a part of the relationships I have been in.

How can you be sure?

Well, since we are speaking of men specifically, I can say that the number 3 on his list doesn't apply to me. I don't treat men like objects, because I don't date them. I don't lower my standards, I just look for someone nice, who is kind to me. Ruthless, the word he used, implies intent, which I know I have not done, nor witnessed in my relationships.

[Mad Monarch]

As soon as you have real advice, do tell. My dating life has been a train wreck of being used, being cheated on (at the first date no less), and being dumped after the first date (for reasons I am still trying to find out).

Hell, I'd be happy if someone would tell me what the hell I keep doing wrong.

[Ifreann]

More seriously, 4ST, it's not how sex and relationships work; it's what (unfortunately) works to get you sex and into relationships.

Since that's how you get sex and relationships, this means that such horrid behavior is a necessary step in such things. Therefore, it is immoral to pursue them, correct?

This is kind of like saying that getting a packet of crisps is immoral because you have to put a shotgun under the cashier's nose to get them. It'd certainly work, but you don't have to do it that way.

[Ifreann]

As soon as you have real advice, do tell. My dating life has been a train wreck of being used, being cheated on (at the first date no less), and being dumped after the first date (for reasons I am still trying to find out).

Hell, I'd be happy if someone would tell me what the hell I keep doing wrong.

Well, your first mistake is asking strangers on the internet for advice.

[Saint Jade IV]

Also, girls are held to a ridiculous double standard.

If they don't sleep with a man - they are frigid bitches, and guys don't want to see them again.

If they do sleep with a man, then they are sluts and whores and only good for calling at midnight when guys are bored and horny.

This is actually society's both misogyny and misandry at play.

[Mad Monarch]

As soon as you have real advice, do tell. My dating life has been a train wreck of being used, being cheated on (at the first date no less), and being dumped after the first date (for reasons I am still trying to find out).

Hell, I'd be happy if someone would tell me what the hell I keep doing wrong.

Well, your first mistake is asking strangers on the internet for advice.

The only people at my school who know what I did wrong are the girls I've dated and, while most of them are my friends, none of them tell me what I did wrong or why I was dumped. They just keep walking or change the question.

If one of you guys happen to be some crazy stalker, maybe you would know what my flirt self did wrong.

[Metanih]

Also, girls are held to a ridiculous double standard.

If they don't sleep with a man - they are frigid bitches, and guys don't want to see them again.

If they do sleep with a man, then they are sluts and whores and only good for calling at midnight when guys are bored and horny.

This is actually society's both misogyny and misandry at play.

There is also the confused standard.
This is when a guy calls a girl a slut because she won't sleep with him.
It has happened to me...

[Ifreann]

If they do sleep with a man, then they are sluts and whores and only good for calling at midnight when guys are bored and horny.

Now that's just crazy talk. Sluts can still make sammiches. [/obligatory]

[Chaos Crescent]

Also, girls are held to a ridiculous double standard.

If they don't sleep with a man - they are frigid bitches, and guys don't want to see them again.

If they do sleep with a man, then they are sluts and whores and only good for calling at midnight when guys are bored and horny.

This is actually society's both misogyny and misandry at play.

Yup. Nothing can be done about it though or rather none will bother to do anything about it.

[Ifreann]

Also, girls are held to a ridiculous double standard.

If they don't sleep with a man - they are frigid bitches, and guys don't want to see them again.

If they do sleep with a man, then they are sluts and whores and only good for calling at midnight when guys are bored and horny.

This is actually society's both misogyny and misandry at play.

There is also the confused standard.
This is when a guy calls a girl a slut because she won't sleep with him.
It has happened to me...

That seems more of an insult to the guy saying it, really.

[Saint Jade IV]

Also, girls are held to a ridiculous double standard.

If they don't sleep with a man - they are frigid bitches, and guys don't want to see them again.

If they do sleep with a man, then they are sluts and whores and only good for calling at midnight when guys are bored and horny.

This is actually society's both misogyny and misandry at play.

There is also the confused standard.
This is when a guy calls a girl a slut because she won't sleep with him.
It has happened to me...

No. That's just boys who never went past the 7th grade, and never found out what a slut actually means.

[The Blaatschapen]

Yeah, I'm rejecting this. I don't see why one should be manipulative and treat the other group like objects. How would that give you a partner?

Edit: Just to be sure, I also reject being skinny and several other of the things on the list(save for perhaps getting a job, but that lies more in the self-improvement direction). But the two things I mentioned above are common in either list, so I'll attack those first

I tend to agree a little with TJ here. I have had exactly one boyfriend in my life, despite every male I know telling me:

A) how hot I am
B) how great I am
C) how much they would love a girl like me

who then go and get into dreadful relationships where the spend the entirety of their time bitching about their partner.

But you are hot. You are great (at least from what I know on the forums). I would love a girl like you.


*waits*



*waits some more*



Nope, I'm still single

[Saint Jade IV]

If they do sleep with a man, then they are sluts and whores and only good for calling at midnight when guys are bored and horny.

Now that's just crazy talk. Sluts can still make sammiches. [/obligatory]

But hygiene standards would prohibit it? No telling where those hands have been

[Saint Jade IV]

I tend to agree a little with TJ here. I have had exactly one boyfriend in my life, despite every male I know telling me:

A) how hot I am
B) how great I am
C) how much they would love a girl like me

who then go and get into dreadful relationships where the spend the entirety of their time bitching about their partner.

But you are hot. You are great (at least from what I know on the forums). I would love a girl like you.


*waits*



*waits some more*



Nope, I'm still single

Now, if I could only find fantastic guys like you here...and Australian girls were not genetically averse to the cold, all our problems would be solved.

[The Blaatschapen]

But you are hot. You are great (at least from what I know on the forums). I would love a girl like you.


*waits*



*waits some more*



Nope, I'm still single

Now, if I could only find fantastic guys like you here...and Australian girls were not genetically averse to the cold, all our problems would be solved.

I can keep the Australian girls warm at night

[Ifreann]

Now that's just crazy talk. Sluts can still make sammiches. [/obligatory]

But hygiene standards would prohibit it? No telling where those hands have been

That;s what those latex gloves are for. Also, they're cheaper than condoms and you get 5 uses out of them.

[Mushet]

Never dated, kissed, did anything of that sort, women came on to me several times in the past but I was nervous so I froze them out

I just flirt with friends

Yeah and I think you have restraining orders against those here at least.

Nope, no restraining orders ever, or hate from them even after saying the creepiest things

[Ifreann]

Now, if I could only find fantastic guys like you here...and Australian girls were not genetically averse to the cold, all our problems would be solved.

I can keep the Australian girls warm at night

I should hope so, they'd freeze solid otherwise.





Oh.

[Chaos Crescent]

Yeah and I think you have restraining orders against those here at least.

Nope, no restraining orders ever, or hate from them even after saying the creepiest things

Then you sir are not doing it right.

[The Congregationists]

I'm going to try make this as least bloggy as possible but I'm a pretty shy guy, nerdy, not very charismatic, with no understanding of women or really any social skill (I also find it extremely difficult to read body language and social cues so flirting is an alien concept), and zero sexual or relationship experience (well I've managed to go on a couple of "dates" before but they were total failures as the girls were just playing me the entire time, one date the girl tried her best to make it hell, and one other date no one even showed up) of any sort so I was wondering how exactly does someone get a girlfriend?

What makes some people unable to get a "mate" and others highly successful?

Also I was wondering how does someone go about dating and "asking someone out".

What were your dating experiences like?

I'll probably think of more questions as the thread progresses.

Well Nornalhorst, there aren't any easy answers here. If it were that easy, the book would be closed on the matter long ago, and we wouldn't be discussing this here.

What I can say, based on my own experience and observation, would be to cultivate libido. In saying that, I mean it in the sense that Freud and Jung originally intended. It annoys me that a deep and sophisticated concept has been reduced to mere sex drive. Yes it does include that, but it's actually about a lot more. Sex drive is the outcome of libido, not libido itself.

What it means translates roughly to "life instinct." It is best manifested in a zest for life, an appreciation for beauty and creativity, a strong sense of self and direction in life and belief and love of good things for their own sake. Put more simply, live a good life and have good things going on in your world, whether you have a girlfriend or not.

[Nornalhorst]

That reminds me the closest I have ever been with a girl was in 3rd grade there was this girl who was a neighbor a block away from my house, strangely enough she actually started playing with me first and then we quickly became playmates and she was very much into traditional boy stuff so we got along great, she was deaf however but her hearing aid helped her hear me so she wasn't completely deaf. We would even go to each other's homes and play videogames or something. Then the absolute closest I have been with a girl happened when one day I went over to her house and instead of playing videogames on her N64 she told me she had a more "exciting game" so we went upstairs to her room, she then told me we have to go under her sheets to play the game so I did then she said something about kissing her and playing mommy and daddy games. So I was like what? That doesn't sound like a game, and I immediately left, yep that was the closest I have ever been with a girl in my entire life most of the time even shaking a girl's hands feels very strange since it has happens so rarely.

Wait were you guys still in 3rd grade when she wanted to do that???!!! That's strange if it happened before middle school. And if you do like a girl just talk to her a bit then ask her out and just think i've been rejected before and what harm can one more do, at least that's how i do it. And oh don't try to impress just do.

Strangely enough she was only about 8 or 9 years old when that happened.

Anyway to answer another question I actually do try to talk to women, I'm incapable of making them want me as someone more than a friend though . In highschool and middle school I was lucky to even get a girl to think of me as a friend for the most part they didn't want anything to do with me sometimes even making fun of me for being such a massive nerd. Now the girls are slightly more mature but as far as I can go with a girl is a friendship and even that is rare, the best friendship I ever had with a girl was the girl in 3rd grade, besides that most friendships aren't that good anyway just me doing stuff for her with nothing in return and if lucky we can hang out and I can be graced with her presence. In such a situation I usually get uninterested and just leave.