Are men becoming less manly?

[Lackadaisical2]

I am not going to argue your ideas (They seem pretty solid) but I will ask just one little question. Do you consider this a bad thing?

I don't know wheather to look at it as a bad thing or not. I looked into it because I noticed that I seem to be developing much more slowly than my father. By 22, he had a full beard. I am nearly 21 and cannot grow any real facial hair at all. So I decided to look into possible reasons and noticed that people my age seem to be developing in a similar way. I started looking into articles and found out that the testosterone in males as well as sperm count drops every decade. This could also be a natural thing, I remember hearing a long time ago that the Y chromosome in men is shrinking and will one day be gone (200,000 years).

I had a decent beard by ~18(although it was not all it could be), and I've known people who could grow a full beard since they were ~14. We called him the 'wolfman'.

Men are slightly less manly, merely because we don't need to go cut down trees and shoot animals and farm crops now. We sit in offices and type, which really does not contribute to a manly man. of course, yes, there are a lot of feminine men going around, and oh my word I hate them. As for facial hair, I can grow a decent mustache/beard. I would grow a goatee, but all the villians in movies have goatees and I don't want to channel Count Dooku.

Just because we don't have to do it, doesn't mean we won't. I'm so manly I do those things for fun.

And yes, movie bad guys have disproportionate amounts of facial hair as compared to movie good guys.

[OMGeverynameistaken]

It's due to all the fluorine the Japanese are putting in our water.

You see, most Japanese men can't grow a decent beard, thus they are all girly-men and are unable to compete with superior American beardliness. The result is that they drug our women, so that they believe that body hair is evil. So in conclusion, this is all the result of a secret Japanese plot to impregnate our women. Tentacles may be involved somewhere.

[Lackadaisical2]

But he is the poster boy for metrosexuals.'

Just to be clear, people can wear whatever the hell they want. But I do not have to like it. Nor do they have to like what I wear. But men wearing V necks or white linen pants pants, pink shirts well that is not my cup of tea.

I thought getting drunk and making bigotted comments was more a traditional male stereotype.

Just another way I'm more manly than everyone else.

I can sum up my feelings in 3 words.
Gender Roles Suck.

Pretty much. Do what you want.

Just came across Deuteronomy 22:5, coincidentally. Such stupidity.

I have to agree with The Almighty here.

[Desperate Measures]

Pretty much. Do what you want.

Just came across Deuteronomy 22:5, coincidentally. Such stupidity.

I have to agree with The Almighty here.

No women in pants?

[Lackadaisical2]

I have to agree with The Almighty here.

No women in pants?

Did men even have pants yet back then?

According to wiki...

Trousers first enter recorded history in the 6th century BCE, with the appearance of horse-riding Iranian peoples in Greek ethnography. At this time, not only the Persians, but also allied Oriental and Central Asian peoples such as the Bactrians, Armenians, and the Tigraxauda Scythians, Xiongnu Hunnu (nowadays Mongolia) are known to have worn them.[4][5] Trousers are believed to have been worn by both sexes among these early users.[6]

(and if wiki says it, it must be true)

[Desperate Measures]

No women in pants?

Did men even have pants yet back then?

According to wiki...

Trousers first enter recorded history in the 6th century BCE, with the appearance of horse-riding Iranian peoples in Greek ethnography. At this time, not only the Persians, but also allied Oriental and Central Asian peoples such as the Bactrians, Armenians, and the Tigraxauda Scythians, Xiongnu Hunnu (nowadays Mongolia) are known to have worn them.[4][5] Trousers are believed to have been worn by both sexes among these early users.[6]

(and if wiki says it, it must be true)

Damn heretics.

[Flameswroth]

Manly is as manly does...or at least that's what I've been led to believe in the past in threads about Real Men on this forum. A man who cares for his family, respects and loves his significant others, is loyal to the end and not afraid to work hard is what a Real Man is here, and that's independent of appearance and dress style.

I've always found that to be pretty useless, as that describes a Real PERSON, regardless of gender. To some that's a good thing; they would describe standards for Real Men as divisive and destructive in a world with so much grey area, if they differed significantly from the Real Person general concept.

I made a list in a time before time here on NS breaking down traits that I thought made a man a Real Man, that are additive with the Real Person list. Among them was 'able to grow good, full facial hair, even if they choose to shave it instead'. That sort of thing.

As for the general aesthetic, as has been pointed out, that's just fluid with the times. Same with chicks. I definitely think men are losing 'manly' traits from a previous era, but they're gaining some new ones. For example, it appears the 'barely pulled onto my head so it flops around' beanie with 5 o'clock shadow is a very 'man' look nowadays. Also skinny jeans and tight long sleeve shirts.

Whatevs, it is what it is.

[1000 Cats]

I'm not sure what to think of the trend. On the one hand, I love reading about the badasses and I think that many of them are individuals we should strive to be. On the other hand, feminine qualities in men can also be very good, although we don't tend to recognize them in the likes of celebrities - aspects like empathy and non-violence. As for the appearance, I guess the men that I consider beautiful are also quite feminine, so deep down I suppose I don't have an issue with it.

[Musiconia]

Could it be that because homosexuals have been looked down on less and less, that straight men feel inferior and feel like they need to compete to still be most wanted? And those that don't feel inferior are simply following others?

[Marxismo]

when domesticated pigs escape, they turn feral and become indistinguishable from wild boars.
the reverse is happening to the male population.

[Desperate Measures]

Could it be that because homosexuals have been looked down on less and less, that straight men feel inferior and feel like they need to compete to still be most wanted? And those that don't feel inferior are simply following others?

The gays are stealing are womins and totally wasting the opportunity?

First thought that entered my mind. I do that, now.

[Lackadaisical2]

Could it be that because homosexuals have been looked down on less and less, that straight men feel inferior and feel like they need to compete to still be most wanted?

Yeah... that must be it.

tight long sleeve shirts.

I want to show off my physique without taking off my shirt, its cold out mang.

[Flameswroth]

I want to show off my physique without taking off my shirt, its cold out mang.

Work it, girlfriend!

[Red zephie]

does it

matter

[Greed and Death]

Yes the solution is be even more chauvinistic.

[The Sith Dragon Lords]

In an age where the current fad is' How Gay are you?', where you need to be at least 25% metrosexual to not be sued for being 'insensitive' to someone feelings. While there are manly gays that could indeed kick my ass, there is a current rise with being one of those annoying loud Richard Simmons-Styled Gays. It happens because we allow it. Yes people are free to express themselves in any way they like and if they are naturally the way they are go ahead, however considering most parents I see are 13 years old, I hold the feeling that parents have stopped being parents and therefore stopped being role models, therefore people, not only men, go after what stereotypes they think will get them what they want, which is usually women/men in or attention, more often then not its both.

With public figures like actors its a little different, because if they are type-cast for a specific persona or role, they need to be fashion conscious. In the case of Johny Depp this is a null point since he's not socially mainstream minded person so he's bound to look odd in a way some people were perceive as less-manly.

Granted this rant isn't so much about the degrading of manlyness over time, as it is my opinion of the this de-evolution of manlyness has produced today and the reason why.

[Milks Empire]

when domesticated pigs escape, they turn feral and become indistinguishable from wild boars.
the reverse is happening to the male population.

Between this post and your last one in this thread, it has to be said...

[Ovisterra]

Maybe we've realised that "manliness" is a dated and sexist concept. As a Brony, I refuse to conform to gender stereotypes!

[Ora Amaris]

I'm not sure what to think of the trend. On the one hand, I love reading about the badasses and I think that many of them are individuals we should strive to be. On the other hand, feminine qualities in men can also be very good, although we don't tend to recognize them in the likes of celebrities - aspects like empathy and non-violence. As for the appearance, I guess the men that I consider beautiful are also quite feminine, so deep down I suppose I don't have an issue with it.

See - I have an issue with that.
Who are we to define what "feminine" and "masculine" even are?
Are these not at least partly artificial definitions?
In fact, these definitions mean absolutely nothing whatsoever.

Masculinity is possessing qualities or characteristics considered typical of or appropriate to a man.

What is "typical" or "appropriate" to a man? What makes any one quality any less or more typical than another quality?

[Ifreann]

Maybe we've realised that "manliness" is a dated and sexist concept. As a Brony, I refuse to conform to gender stereotypes!

[Ovisterra]

Maybe we've realised that "manliness" is a dated and sexist concept. As a Brony, I refuse to conform to gender stereotypes!

You go, opinionated Twilight!

[Lackadaisical2]

I'm not sure what to think of the trend. On the one hand, I love reading about the badasses and I think that many of them are individuals we should strive to be. On the other hand, feminine qualities in men can also be very good, although we don't tend to recognize them in the likes of celebrities - aspects like empathy and non-violence. As for the appearance, I guess the men that I consider beautiful are also quite feminine, so deep down I suppose I don't have an issue with it.

See - I have an issue with that.
Who are we to define what "feminine" and "masculine" even are?

People.

Are these not at least partly artificial definitions?

Not particularly so.

In fact, these definitions mean absolutely nothing whatsoever.

Only if you're being dense.

Masculinity is possessing qualities or characteristics considered typical of or appropriate to a man.

What is "typical" or "appropriate" to a man? What makes any one quality any less or more typical than another quality?

By being more typical.

[Rio Cana]

I am not going to argue your ideas (They seem pretty solid) but I will ask just one little question. Do you consider this a bad thing?

I don't know wheather to look at it as a bad thing or not. I looked into it because I noticed that I seem to be developing much more slowly than my father. By 22, he had a full beard. I am nearly 21 and cannot grow any real facial hair at all. So I decided to look into possible reasons and noticed that people my age seem to be developing in a similar way. I started looking into articles and found out that the testosterone in males as well as sperm count drops every decade. This could also be a natural thing, I remember hearing a long time ago that the Y chromosome in men is shrinking and will one day be gone (200,000 years).

The answer is evolution via Neoteny.

Neoteny’ refers to the biological phenomenon whereby development is delayed such that juvenile characteristics are retained into maturity

We live in a competitive, highly mobile and highly technological age. Humans need to process plenty of information these days. Mature people have difficulty but younger people do not. That is why you see people in there 30 and older who do not seem to mature. It is all evolution.

The mid-twentieth century saw the rise of the boy-genius, probably because a personality type characterized by prolonged youthfulness is advantageous both in science and modern life generally. This is the evolution of ‘psychological-neoteny’, in which ever-more people retain for ever-longer the characteristic behaviours and attitudes of earlier developmental stages. Whereas traditional societies are characterized by initiation ceremonies marking the advent of adulthood, these have now dwindled and disappeared. In a psychological sense, some contemporary individuals never actually become adults. A child-like flexibility of attitudes, behaviours and knowledge is probably adaptive in modern society because people need repeatedly to change jobs, learn new skills, move to new places and make new friends. It seems that this adaptation is achieved by the expedient of postponing cognitive maturation – a process that could be termed psychological neoteny.

Read this - http://www.hedweb.com/bgcharlton/ed-boygenius.html

[Vellosia]

Ignore.

[Ora Amaris]

Are these not at least partly artificial definitions?

Not particularly so.

Then, what defines what a man is and isn't?
Aren't you, technically speaking, a man if you have an XY chromosome?

In fact, these definitions mean absolutely nothing whatsoever.

Only if you're being dense.

Why?
How does it make sense that you are less of a man if you display a certain personality trait?

What is "typical" or "appropriate" to a man? What makes any one quality any less or more typical than another quality?

By being more typical.

This means nothing to me.
"being more typical" is so subjective, it means absolutely nothing.