What are your thoughts on Alcohol

[Abdju]

No, the Taliban banned alcohol. I specifically don't favour the "Saudi Solution".

More the Clayton's Saudi Solution. The drink you have when you're only having one drink.

What I want to know, is what you do about the restaurant crawl. Folks come in, have one drink with dinner (which they only eat half of) and then move on to the next restaurant.

Expensive, yes, but they could get pretty bloody drunk that way. Particularly if they stopped between restaurants to stick their fingers down their throat.

One of the licensing regulations of the establishments would a requirement to not serve alcohol to someone who is obviously drunk (much as UK bar staff can do now, if the feel it best), and it would be damned expensive, which would preclude most people from doing it anyway. However, it' not 100% water tight, and no solution ever could be, even a total ban.

[Lucky Bicycle Works]

Something like eighty percent of violent crime involves the over consumption of Alcohol. Any thoughts on how to solve this problem?

Something like eighty percent of stats found on fora involve making them on the spot.

Anyway, the best thing to do is to educate people to use alcohol (if they want it) without abusing thereof. That is, have kids at 12 begin drinking some wine or beer, possibily in the family. Then free rein at 18 - though I think we could use some higher taxes on alcohol over 20% and pre-mixed alcoholic beverages like rum coolers etc. It's better to drink a couple of glasses of whisky than to have a couple of cocktails - with cocktails one is less conscious of the amount of alcohol he's drinking.

And use the increased profits to fund more controls (roadside tests, enforcing the prohibition to sell alcohol to who's already drunk). With huge penalties (like revoking driving license for ten years).

That is, create a culture of proper use of alcohol instead of banning it altogether: this only makes young people want to get drunk - because it's forbidden. This way instead you teach the kids that while drinking alcohol is normal, binging is just stupid.

This ^. It's amazing what being introduced to sensible alcohol consumption at a young age does to older drinking.

It didn't work for me. Wine with dinner was usual for my parents, they would have a carafe (perhaps a litre) between them at dinner, no drinks before dinner. They got drunk at parties, but those were rare, and I was sent to bed before things got really wild.

Dinner (the evening meal) was always our best family time. Once a day, that we would all be in the same room for half an hour. The time no-one was mean to each other, though there were some nasty arguments away from the table.

And yes, like you I was introduced to alcohol in that positive environment, and allowed a glass of diluted wine at around the age of twelve.

Yet, here I am a middle-aged alcoholic. Yesterday I had 1.9 standard drinks, but the day before I had at least 20. My average for the last year or so I estimate at 14 per day. I am an alcoholic.

Anecdotal evidence. I'm just saying: being brought up with a positive idea of what drinking is about, and being set a good example of alcohol use, does not work always.

Take for example me and my two best friends. I grew up in Belgium, where the attitude to alcohol is very different from the UK. I started having a small glass of wine with a meal at special occasions (generally Christmas) when I was quite young (I think about 12ish) and it was quite normal by 16 that if me and my friends gathered for a small house party (with parents around) that there would be a very small number of low alcohol drinks there (say 1 Bacardi Breezer each for the whole evening). I have never had a desire to go binge drinking, I drink alcoholic drinks because I do enjoy the taste, not as a means to get drunk. And though on occasion I have been known to over-indulge (very rarely), this has generally been due to poor judgement over the effect of mixing drinks rather than any desire really get drunk.

I hear your anecdotal evidence. Good luck to you, but circumstances do not have the same effect on all individuals.

[Eofaerwic]

Anecdotal evidence. I'm just saying: being brought up with a positive idea of what drinking is about, and being set a good example of alcohol use, does not work always.

This, I will accept is very true and I'm sorry to hear about your alcoholism. But I would argued that being brought up with a positive attitude towards alcohol works better for the majority of people than being brought up with alcohol as tabboo. Furthermore, I'd argue that although it may not help reduce alcoholism (and of course there is strong evidence that alcoholism is, in part, related to physiological predisposition as well as environmental influences), it will help reduce the level of binge drinking you see in town centres.

[Lucky Bicycle Works]

No, the Taliban banned alcohol. I specifically don't favour the "Saudi Solution".

More the Clayton's Saudi Solution. The drink you have when you're only having one drink.

What I want to know, is what you do about the restaurant crawl. Folks come in, have one drink with dinner (which they only eat half of) and then move on to the next restaurant.

Expensive, yes, but they could get pretty bloody drunk that way. Particularly if they stopped between restaurants to stick their fingers down their throat.

One of the licensing regulations of the establishments would a requirement to not serve alcohol to someone who is obviously drunk (much as UK bar staff can do now, if the feel it best), and it would be damned expensive, which would preclude most people from doing it anyway. However, it' not 100% water tight, and no solution ever could be, even a total ban.

Your "solution" is utter rubbish.

Of all the drugs on earth, alcohol is the easiest to produce. All that is needed is something to ferment. Sugar. Fruit. Grain. Milk, even.

Are you going to ban those?

Your "solution" would quite simply make alcohol regulation the same unenforceable mess as all other illegal drug prohibitions.

It would also put pubs out of business (in favour of roadside drink carts) and put a fair dent in the restaurant trade.

[Lucky Bicycle Works]

Anecdotal evidence. I'm just saying: being brought up with a positive idea of what drinking is about, and being set a good example of alcohol use, does not work always.

This, I will accept is very true and I'm sorry to hear about your alcoholism. But I would argued that being brought up with a positive attitude towards alcohol works better for the majority of people than being brought up with alcohol as taboo.

I think so too.

I was provoked by the long and detailed anecdotal evidence, to bring my own anecdote. No matter how detailed and authentic, anecdotal evidence is no basis for public policy ... which is what we are discussing when we speak of taxes, or of prohibitions on advertising.

Furthermore, I'd argue that although it may not help reduce alcoholism (and of course there is strong evidence that alcoholism is, in part, related to physiological predisposition as well as behaviour), it will help reduce the level of binge drinking you see in town centres.

And I would argue that the problems for others (assaults, vandalism, threatening behaviour) of binge drinking follow from a common cause as the binge drinking. The perception that after a week at work, one deserves to cut loose. That, by economic necessity, one has to suck in one's gut and take all kinds of shit in the course of a working week, but come friday night one can do what one pleases ... and that drinking and breaking the law follow from this, although the former makes the latter easier (diminished capacity to consider the consequences, as part of a diminished capacity to think at all.)

"I was drunk" should never be an excuse. It's a bad "drinking culture" which rewards (even with laughter) bad behaviour while drunk. If people behave badly (let alone break laws) while drunk, plainly they are misusing the drug to do bad things which at some level they want to do.

I make no excuses for my bad behaviour while drunk. It was me who called "another" and it was me who drank it down. I would apply the same standard to any drug voluntarily taken, and I wish the law would be similarly strict.

[Classical Liberal]

My thoughts;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmkgowjWm_I

&

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Df53LWQuezQ

[SD_Film Artists]

Rather than increasing punishment for those involved in alcohol related crime the focus should be on reducing the binge drinking culture itself. Banning the advertising of alcohol is one such method as is setting a price per unit.

Yea that's just great, punishing the many for the crimes of a few.

Clamp down hard on the drunkards causing a pain around town centres, sure. But raising the price per unit (or in general) means that those drunken yobs are indirectly mugging the responsible drinker. I'm very glad that the proposed 'price per unit' law was rejected in the UK.

And 'home brew' is dangerous, due to the potentially higher levels of methanol

[Sidebody]

Rather than increasing punishment for those involved in alcohol related crime the focus should be on reducing the binge drinking culture itself. Banning the advertising of alcohol is one such method as is setting a price per unit.

Yea that's just great, punishing the many for the crimes of a few.

Clamp down hard on the drunkards causing a pain around town centres, sure. But raising the price per unit (or in general) means that those drunken yobs are indirectly mugging the responsible drinker. I'm very glad that the proposed 'price per unit' law was rejected in the UK.

Not that I claimed a preference for the price per unit strategy but those 'drunken yobs' are already indirectly mugging the Scottish public when the financial cost of alcohol misuse is 2.25 billion pounds. It should also be noted that the SNP are still pressing ahead with their plan to introduce the measure.

Shona Robison, Scottish Government minister for public health, said: "The Scottish Government is already taking forward many of the measures the British Medical Association is calling for, including minimum pricing to tackle the rock-bottom prices of some alcoholic products which are helping to fuel Scotland's £2.25 billion alcohol misuse problem.

[Treznor]

What do you think this is, 1918? Make people responsible for their actions, not for their vices. For that matter, stop trying to apply your morals to other people. Decriminalizing vices tends to take away some of the appeal for them, which is one of the factors for why Europeans have fewer proportional road accidents due to alcohol impairment: they grow up drinking wine, so they learn to respect their limits earlier.

[Lucky Bicycle Works]

"Price per unit" is half-right.

"Tax per unit" is right. Regardless of the retail price, tax alcoholic beverages according to the alcohol in them.

And of course, retail tax at the rate applicable to consumers of any luxury (VAT, sales tax, GST, whatever it's called in various jurisdictions.) Once the alcohol is taxed by an alcohol tax, all all other characteristics of the beverage are irrelevant.

If in the future there is a carbohydrate or a joule (calorie) tax, that would apply also.

But an alcohol tax should tax only the alcohol component of an alcoholic drink.

[Yootopia]

Alcohol is a cool guy, eh numbs the grinding tedium of life and doesnt afriad of anything.

[Sidebody]

What do you think this is, 1918?

No nor have I mentioned prohibition anywhere strangely enough

[Abdju]

Rather than increasing punishment for those involved in alcohol related crime the focus should be on reducing the binge drinking culture itself. Banning the advertising of alcohol is one such method as is setting a price per unit.

Yea that's just great, punishing the many for the crimes of a few.

Clamp down hard on the drunkards causing a pain around town centres, sure. But raising the price per unit (or in general) means that those drunken yobs are indirectly mugging the responsible drinker. I'm very glad that the proposed 'price per unit' law was rejected in the UK.

And 'home brew' is dangerous, due to the potentially higher levels of methanol

Only it isn't. The drunken yobs are affecting peoples lives negatively though street violence, property damage and placing a strain on emergency services. Clamping down on that with the law is indeed one thing we can do. However it needs funding, and the money to do that comes from...taxation. That being the case, raising taxes on alcohol is the most just cause of action, and also helps the situation directly by acting as a brake on consumption.

[Treznor]

What do you think this is, 1918?

No nor have I mentioned prohibition anywhere strangely enough

It's the same attitude, though. Why do you think Prohibition came along in the first place?

[Inchland]

Well for a start my thoughts on alcohol are thoughts of love and appreciation for it, in fact i am going to get pissed tonight

[Sidebody]

What do you think this is, 1918?

No nor have I mentioned prohibition anywhere strangely enough

It's the same attitude, though. Why do you think Prohibition came along in the first place?

I'm not very well read on American history unfortunately but from a quick skim of the wikipedia page you linked to it seems that prohibition came about due to the actions of temperence movements who pushed their morality on others. Correct me if i'm wrong.

That has nothing to do with my opinions or attitudes on the matter. I'm more than happy for individuals to indulge in alcohol and do so regularly myself.

[FreeSatania]

Rather than increasing punishment for those involved in alcohol related crime the focus should be on reducing the binge drinking culture itself. Banning the advertising of alcohol is one such method as is setting a price per unit.

Yea that's just great, punishing the many for the crimes of a few.

Clamp down hard on the drunkards causing a pain around town centres, sure. But raising the price per unit (or in general) means that those drunken yobs are indirectly mugging the responsible drinker. I'm very glad that the proposed 'price per unit' law was rejected in the UK.

And 'home brew' is dangerous, due to the potentially higher levels of methanol

Only it isn't. The drunken yobs are affecting peoples lives negatively though street violence, property damage and placing a strain on emergency services. Clamping down on that with the law is indeed one thing we can do. However it needs funding, and the money to do that comes from...taxation. That being the case, raising taxes on alcohol is the most just cause of action, and also helps the situation directly by acting as a brake on consumption.

It's alcohol not crystal-meth. Any clamp down should be on disorderly behavior. I drink every day but you don't see me going around all "whooo yeah alright" and making a big deal about it. People need to be held responsible for their actions not use alcohol as an excuse for their behavior.

Being drunk as a skunk so long as your not hurting anyone should be regarded as a civil right. And raising taxes on alcohol is just a stupid idea. It's already too expensive. Here in Germany I can buy a beer for 30c, people can buy beer at age 16 and you see a lot less problems related to alcohol here than you do in the US and Canada. Why do you think that is?

I'll tell you why that is. Because people here already know their limits before they have a drivers license and their isn't a social acceptance among their friends that it's cool to be wasted. People aren't going out at age 21 and testing their limits because they've been drinking for the better part of their lives before then. As a result people know how to behave and they can hold their liquor.

[Rothbardia-Camusia]

I despise alcohol. Also, anyone who advocates its prohibition--or--abuse campaigns to minimize use--have serious issues with control. Last time I dealt with a drunk was at the end of April, and even that was only a brief inconvenience. If you're not into it, don't surround yourself with it. Don't make friends with drunks, don't date drunks, don't discuss alcohol with your coworkers, et-cetera. If you don't want it to be part of your life, don't let it be. I'm not into Dan Brown novels--I don't go trying to get him hanged, or petition for increased taxes on The Da Vinchi Code. I just don't buy the shit, because it's awful, and I don't surround myself with people that would want me to.

P.S. To solve the crime bit: I believe if you abolish the courts and the prisons, "crime", as it is presently defined, will plummet!

[Lucky Bicycle Works]

It is ridiculous to speak of "responsible drinking" unless we are prepared to hold people responsible for what they do while drunk.

[Northern Delmarva]

Something like eighty percent of violent crime involves the over consumption of Alcohol.

Proof or bullshit.

[Almagarde]

Nanny-state bullshit.

In what Way? The definition of Treason is an assault on the state. That pretty much includes profiting from social disorder - even as indirectly as selling the booze to stupid people who should be sober when they riot so they at least know the name of the Despot who keeps himself in power by keeping folks liquored up. I suspect if Americans Haddnt had Alcohol to fall back on, they would have lynched George W.

Drunks don’t assassinate Presidents. Sober people do.
Legalize Alcohol for twelve year olds

[The Atlantian islands]

"What are your thoughts on Alcohol?" - I never remember!

[Veblenia]

It's alcohol not crystal-meth. Any clamp down should be on disorderly behavior. I drink every day but you don't see me going around all "whooo yeah alright" and making a big deal about it. People need to be held responsible for their actions not use alcohol as an excuse for their behavior.

Being drunk as a skunk so long as your not hurting anyone should be regarded as a civil right. And raising taxes on alcohol is just a stupid idea. It's already too expensive. Here in Germany I can buy a beer for 30c, people can buy beer at age 16 and you see a lot less problems related to alcohol here than you do in the US and Canada. Why do you think that is?

I'll tell you why that is. Because people here already know their limits before they have a drivers license and their isn't a social acceptance among their friends that it's cool to be wasted. People aren't going out at age 21 and testing their limits because they've been drinking for the better part of their lives before then. As a result people know how to behave and they can hold their liquor.

I endorse this message. Creating a culture of responsible consumption will do a lot more good than restricting (and therefore mystifying) alcohol.

[Tedthehunter01]

Yum yum...

[Vetalia]

I don't know, arrest the criminals? Getting rid of alcohol isn't going to stop violent people from committing violent crimes...