Scottish Independence - Yay or Nay? (Poll)

[Klowr]

Scotland should forge it's own path in the world. We should separate from the English who are not our people and care little for us. Membership of the UK has done Scotland little favours in recent times. Whether it is illegal wars, neo-liberal economic policies or simply Margaret Thatcher. It is either Independence for Scotland or to be what Jim Sillars called "90 Minute Patriots"!

Yeah, apart from us Welsh & English, bailing you out from your quest to build colonies in Panama. And, "English who are not our people and care little for us" That said, this discussion just proves English people care about Scotland, if the English didn't care, would they quest for you not to leave the Union? Yes, they do, hence showing the give a shit, if they didn't they would be, "okay leave have your bloody freedom, and sheep, good luck with oil trying to supply your NHS, have fun, we don't give a shit about you!"

And "Not our people" sounds very racial, I would say racist. You are British, since you live on the island, known as Great Britain, in the British isles, hence those people who live there, are British. Just like people who live on Europe, are called Europeans. I won't go into that area, whether Irish are British. Since like its kinda off topic

[Van Dalia]

Well, I'm not Scottish, but it seems to me this would depend on one thing. Do the majority of Scots want independence or to remain in the United Kingdom?

[WhozzaWattsits]

I am Scottish and the sooner we are independent the better. Here are four reasons -

1. Tories. If Scotland was independent we would no longer have to rely on England voting Labour. Scotland would never have to suffer under an unelected or unpopular Tory government ever again.

2. Oil. Around half the proven reserves of North Sea Oil have been brought ashore. We should as an independent nation explore having a sovereign wealth fund and invest in Scotland's future. Since the 1970's the UK government has not invested the oil money but rather wasted it on neo-liberal economic experiments such as Thatcherism and privatisation. For the record the vast majority of the oil reserves of the UK lie in waters that would be under the jurisdiction of an independent Scotland.

3. Currency. We could quite easily retain Sterling. All this talk about an independent Scotland being forced to join the EURO is unionist scaremongering. Not all EU members are in the EURO. Australia and New Zealand retained Sterling until the 1960's. That was 60 years after they ended their status as colonies.

4. Representation. At the moment Scottish Government ministers are sometimes allowed to join UK ministerial teams for talks at the EU etc. Sometimes they are not and Scotland's voice is not heard or her interests served. If Scotland was independent we could be full members of the UN, EU, Council of Europe etc. Scotland's voice would be heard at the top tables instead of being subsumed by a UK government that is led by a party with just one seat north of the border.

I hope the poster was trying to be ironic.

I find it extremely embarrasing to hear Scottish people blame present problems on the actions of politicians that left office over 20 years ago!!!

Oil was never a public good. In any case privatisation takes industries out of the power a government and makes them responsible for their own actions. It more possible for the local region and those who work in it to spend the profits of those particular industries. However, If an entire country is dependent upon the product of one city, Aberdeen, and one industry alone, especially when oil is about to undergo a rapid decline because of, resource depletion and upcoming alternative industries etc., I would say that the country should re-evaluate it's ability to be a self-sustaining nation.

If Scotland were to become independent it would probably decline either into socialism, run headlong to join Europe, or find some other way to go bust. Look at what happened to Southern Ireland when it became "free". It's ecomic development fell rapidly behind other neighbouring nations. The Celtic Tiger was a mere blip in an otherwise gloomy picture. And despite a long history of fighting for independence, Ireland eventually fell into the hands of the EU. Ireland has given up all of her sovereignty by signing the Lisbon Treaty, taking the Euro, and a host of current Bills. Do not trust the EU to solve problems but to make new ones. Also look at Northern Ireland after the decline in shipbuilding. Once a prosperous corner of Britain, it is now dependent on mainland UK. This will be a similar picture it Scotland continues to depend upon the oil industry for its economy.

The problems facing Scotland are much bigger than such posters realise. The economic crises for instance is not just the fault of the current administration, but much more constructed issue. That's not to say that Scotland should not try to be independent. But as a nation, Scotland will have to come up with some pretty big ideas if it is to remain truly independent and economically prosperous. For a start it could give up being so bloomin' bitter.

[Klowr]

Well, I'm not Scottish, but it seems to me this would depend on one thing. Do the majority of Scots want independence or to remain in the United Kingdom?

To me, I agree if the Scots want to leave. Let em' bloody well leave, I'll just move to Canada. But I will only be convince if there is more then 75% of the BRITISH population, since this affects all of us, Welsh, English, & Scots, whom vote for Scotland to leave the Union. Since to me 50% is just half the country, not much a majority.

[Barkrain]

Nay...The RBS problem would mean the Scottish economy already has blood on it's hands before it even becomes independent. Also this really isn't the right period to become independent for both Scotland and England, Wales and N.Ireland's sakes (or whatever the new unions called)

[The UK in Exile]

1. Tories. If Scotland was independent we would no longer have to rely on England voting Labour. Scotland would never have to suffer under an unelected or unpopular Tory government ever again.

you don't have one now! your governed by scots!

2. Oil. Around half the proven reserves of North Sea Oil have been brought ashore. We should as an independent nation explore having a sovereign wealth fund and invest in Scotland's future. Since the 1970's the UK government has not invested the oil money but rather wasted it on neo-liberal economic experiments such as Thatcherism and privatisation. For the record the vast majority of the oil reserves of the UK lie in waters that would be under the jurisdiction of an independent Scotland.

fine, take it.

3. Currency. We could quite easily retain Sterling. All this talk about an independent Scotland being forced to join the EURO is unionist scaremongering. Not all EU members are in the EURO. Australia and New Zealand retained Sterling until the 1960's. That was 60 years after they ended their status as colonies.

you could but then your hardly indepenent are you? its also not a question scotland can answer unilaterally, since it affects the UK. we may decide that our best interests lie in not sharing a currency with scotland.

4. Representation. At the moment Scottish Government ministers are sometimes allowed to join UK ministerial teams for talks at the EU etc. Sometimes they are not and Scotland's voice is not heard or her interests served. If Scotland was independent we could be full members of the UN, EU, Council of Europe etc. Scotland's voice would be heard at the top tables instead of being subsumed by a UK government that is led by a party with just one seat north of the border.

you'd lose the UN veto though, this assumes of course that scotland joins the EU, something tells me their not looking for new members right now. of course there are numerous other countries where scotland will need diplomatic representation and embassies, i'm curious were scotland expects to find its brand new diplomatic corps?

Scotland should forge it's own path in the world. We should separate from the English who are not our people and care little for us. Membership of the UK has done Scotland little favours in recent times. Whether it is illegal wars, neo-liberal economic policies or simply Margaret Thatcher. It is either Independence for Scotland or to be what Jim Sillars called "90 Minute Patriots"!

good point about illegal wars,scotlands dinky little regiment is hardly going to do it much good. I suspect a mutal defence pact will be the order of the day. independent except for foreign, monetary and defence policy? why, thats similar to the system we have now I hear you cry!

[Dirlie_Bane]

1. Tories. If Scotland was independent we would no longer have to rely on England voting Labour. Scotland would never have to suffer under an unelected or unpopular Tory government ever again.

you don't have one now! your governed by scots!

Quick folks, lets ignore the non-devolved issues. We can do whatever we want on those issues now. Weeeeeeeeee.

[Fumblemore]

As a Scot, I want to see Scotland gain more autonomy. I hate having Labour governments here who are just their Westminster counterpart's willing bitches. And even more so, I hate having Conservatives in power, who we didn't even vote for. And can directly influence Scotland. So more autonomy would give us greater power to decide our own politics to a greater extent.

Poll attached.

From a documentary I once saw, I believe that the Scottish have always wanted to rebel, but whenever they tried they remembered how powerful their enemies are...

[Tagmatium]

4. Representation. At the moment Scottish Government ministers are sometimes allowed to join UK ministerial teams for talks at the EU etc. Sometimes they are not and Scotland's voice is not heard or her interests served. If Scotland was independent we could be full members of the UN, EU, Council of Europe etc. Scotland's voice would be heard at the top tables instead of being subsumed by a UK government that is led by a party with just one seat north of the border.

Over represented, if nothing else.

West Lothian Question.

[The UK in Exile]

you don't have one now! your governed by scots!

Quick folks, lets ignore the non-devolved issues. We can do whatever we want on those issues now. Weeeeeeeeee.

or we could not wikipedia lists some examples as broadcasting policy, nuclear energy, electricity, coal, oil, gas, protection of borders, defence, drug policy, stability of UK's fiscal, economic and monetary system and most aspects of transport safety and regulation. political independence isn't going to change the fact that your going to have to reach an agreement with westminister on these issues.

[Uthopia]

Well, I'm not Scottish, but it seems to me this would depend on one thing. Do the majority of Scots want independence or to remain in the United Kingdom?

To me, I agree if the Scots want to leave. Let em' bloody well leave, I'll just move to Canada. But I will only be convince if there is more then 75% of the BRITISH population, since this affects all of us, Welsh, English, & Scots, whom vote for Scotland to leave the Union. Since to me 50% is just half the country, not much a majority.

there is no "british"nation, there is only a english, scotish and welsh nation. The "british" are a product of the ruling political class of the 18th century. Sorry, but this is a fact.

The british nationality is also like a belgian or pakistani nationality. Every of this nationalities contain other some other nations.

[Vistagratigonia]

YAY!
Also, while were at it...can we get Cascadia? (Oregon, Washington, and British Colombia.)

[Klowr]

To me, I agree if the Scots want to leave. Let em' bloody well leave, I'll just move to Canada. But I will only be convince if there is more then 75% of the BRITISH population, since this affects all of us, Welsh, English, & Scots, whom vote for Scotland to leave the Union. Since to me 50% is just half the country, not much a majority.

there is no "british"nation, there is only a english, scotish and welsh nation. The "british" are a product of the ruling political class of the 18th century. Sorry, but this is a fact.

The british nationality is also like a belgian or pakistani nationality. Every of this nationalities contain other some other nations.

Sorry, but the fact of the matter is. Under 1981 Nationality law, all those living in the United Kingdom, are British, yes Britain is a nation within nations. But you don't see Hercule Poirot going around shouting he's Wallonian or Flanderian, no he's Belgium. I personally feel better calling myself British, then say Welsh. And anyway does this matter. I said the referendum should be on a national level, Scotland is not some kind of colony, located 5,000 milies from the English Coast, or an island in the North sea. NO you are part of the island of Great Britain. Hence Scotland is part of this country, therefore referendum should be conducted by all four states.

What do you think the N. Irish would say? Their descendent from the Scot's. They get no opinion? How about us Welsh? We don't get a say? We're part of the union for pete sake.

If they do win an separate, do you think the Welsh & English are going to be happy about that? Its the equivalent of them leaving them to die. Abandonment. Although that is my opinion.

Well anyway. This.

*packs bag for Canada*

[Meowfoundland]

What do you think the N. Irish would say? Their descendent from the Scot's. They get no opinion? How about us Welsh? We don't get a say? We're part of the union for pete sake.

So do you think that if a region wants to separate from a country, the entire country should get to vote on it? I wonder how well that would go down with the South Sudanese or Tibetan nationalists.

[Trixiestan]

I hope the poster was trying to be ironic.

I find it extremely embarrasing to hear Scottish people blame present problems on the actions of politicians that left office over 20 years ago!!!

Because a lot of the problems in modern British society are a direct result of Thatche and her policies? You're either blind or live in the south.

Oil was never a public good. In any case privatisation takes industries out of the power a government and makes them responsible for their own actions. It more possible for the local region and those who work in it to spend the profits of those particular industries. However, If an entire country is dependent upon the product of one city, Aberdeen, and one industry alone, especially when oil is about to undergo a rapid decline because of, resource depletion and upcoming alternative industries etc., I would say that the country should re-evaluate it's ability to be a self-sustaining nation.

Pretty sure Scotland has more industries than just the oil one. Fishing, for example~

If Scotland were to become independent it would probably decline either into socialism, run headlong to join Europe, or find some other way to go bust. Look at what happened to Southern Ireland when it became "free". It's ecomic development fell rapidly behind other neighbouring nations. The Celtic Tiger was a mere blip in an otherwise gloomy picture. And despite a long history of fighting for independence, Ireland eventually fell into the hands of the EU. Ireland has given up all of her sovereignty by signing the Lisbon Treaty, taking the Euro, and a host of current Bills. Do not trust the EU to solve problems but to make new ones. Also look at Northern Ireland after the decline in shipbuilding. Once a prosperous corner of Britain, it is now dependent on mainland UK. This will be a similar picture it Scotland continues to depend upon the oil industry for its economy.

>Implying "declining" into socialism wouldn't be a good thing.
>Implying the EU is some sort of horrifying (but useless) empire which seeks to oppress the FREE PEOPLES OF EUROPE (Belgium is Mordor
>Implying Northern Ireland wasn't ever not being fucked over by the mainland British (mostly in the English since we have a habit of being shits)

The problems facing Scotland are much bigger than such posters realise. The economic crises for instance is not just the fault of the current administration, but much more constructed issue. That's not to say that Scotland should not try to be independent. But as a nation, Scotland will have to come up with some pretty big ideas if it is to remain truly independent and economically prosperous. For a start it could give up being so bloomin' bitter.

Scotland is allowed to be bloomin' bitter. It's their cutest feature~

[Klowr]

What do you think the N. Irish would say? Their descendent from the Scot's. They get no opinion? How about us Welsh? We don't get a say? We're part of the union for pete sake.

So do you think that if a region wants to separate from a country, the entire country should get to vote on it? I wonder how well that would go down with the South Sudanese or Tibetan nationalists.

Well Scotland ain't like Tibet or S. Sudan. Completely different situation, one is not wholly recognized and not part of the county, and the other, well it all comes down to religion. It's called the United Kingdom of Great Britain, if Scotland were to leave, it would cease to exist, hence all states should get a vote.

Does Sudan still exist? Yes. If Tibet were to seperate, would China or the PRC still exist? Yes. If Scotland were to seperate, would it exist? No. That's why all nationalities should get a vote.

Its quite a simple formula

England + Wales + Scotland + N. Ireland = United Kingdom

England + Wales + N. Ireland - Scotland =/= United Kingdom

However

England - Wales - Scotland = The Disunited Dysfunctional Bickering Kingdoms & Republics of the British Isles A.K.A Hell on Earth A.A.K.A Another area are where nationalism ruin. A.A.A.K.A the World's second Nationalistic Gorillas zoo, the other being Yugoslavia.

Also I prefer the Union Flag, too say, the St. George or Andrew flag, standing alone.

[Aesthetica]

Scotland is allowed to be bloomin' bitter. It's their cutest feature principle export~

Fixed...

[Aldesinnia]

I'm British/English. Scotland should do whatever it feels is in it's best interest. Although I hope the referendum Salmond promised will only be one question. In or Out.

He's confusing himself and the electorate when he refuses to answer what the question will be, and how many. I think he said he "prefered" independence, but is leaving the option for devo Max on the table. Surely they are two very seperate issues. If the Scottish want more devolution, thats fine, Wales had a referendum for more power.

I would add that I am a massive supporter of Scotland remaining within the UK.

[Cromarty]

I hope the poster was trying to be ironic.

I find it extremely embarrasing to hear Scottish people blame present problems on the actions of politicians that left office over 20 years ago!!!

Because a lot of the problems in modern British society are a direct result of Thatche and her policies? You're either blind or live in the south.

Can we not generalise by regions please? I live in the south and would quite happily piss on the bitches grave :/

[Tagmatium]

Because a lot of the problems in modern British society are a direct result of Thatche and her policies? You're either blind or live in the south.

Can we not generalise by regions please? I live in the south and would quite happily piss on the bitches grave :/

Not looking forward to the state funeral for her, then?

[Aesthetica]

Can we not generalise by regions please? I live in the south and would quite happily piss on the bitches grave :/

Not looking forward to the state funeral for her, then?

The traitors who give her a state funeral should be burned...

[Aethelstania]

Because a lot of the problems in modern British society are a direct result of Thatche and her policies? You're either blind or live in the south.

Can we not generalise by regions please? I live in the south and would quite happily piss on the bitches grave :/

I live in the North and a lot of the damage done by thatcher has been repaired by investment in the north under the last Labour government, Still not her biggest fan but couldn't bring myself to piss on her grave !

[Aethelstania]

Not looking forward to the state funeral for her, then?

The traitors who give her a state funeral should be burned...

people who relish in the death of others EVEN if they are Maggie Thatcher should be ashamed

[Tagmatium]

Not looking forward to the state funeral for her, then?

The traitors who give her a state funeral should be burned...

It is being considered, apparently, by the current government.

[Aesthetica]

The traitors who give her a state funeral should be burned...

It is being considered, apparently, by the current government.

Well it's one way of getting rid of the Con-Dems... Forward Komrades! Storm the Political Palace...