Scottish Independence - Yay or Nay? (Poll)

[Zersium]

Well I wouldn't say sole reason, but if I interview some Scottish 16 yr olds (the age of which Alex Salmond wants the vote to be brought down to in this referendum) I don't think I'd get- "Because Scotland could survive and even thrive very well with North Sea oil and the progressive social/economic policies which I've seen to be much better than those of Labour and the Conservatives".

You might be suprised. There are plenty of 16 year olds that will be saying "Because the British empire ruled the world! Hell yeah! Rule Britannnia!"

Do you think 16 year olds are going to be the majority of voters?

Correction, All Hail Britannia.

The other reason why we get to be snobby again to the world.

[SD_Film Artists]

Actually it might be more sustainable than Scotland; Wales would be a very small nation if it were independent, but IIRC at least it isn't living off its parents (England*) and then thinking it'll be so cool to be independent as is the case with Scotland. An independent Wales will be more sustainable, albiet still pointless in my humble opinion..

*not that Wales is England's child; that'll be places like America.

Wales, being far far more integrated with England, also doesn't leech from it (as much!!!) because Scotland is poor and their sole reason for any sort of political movement is FREEEEEEEEDOM and feeling cool. Good post.

Well I wouldn't say sole reason, but if I interview some Scottish 16 yr olds (the age of which Alex Salmond wants the vote to be brought down to for this referendum) I don't think I'd get- "Because Scotland could survive and even thrive very well with North Sea oil and the progressive social/economic policies which I've seen to be much better than those of Labour and the Conservatives".

And not sharing 300 years as a globe conquering island.

If you only support unions with countries that you're already unified with I'd love to see what you'd have said in the 1600s.

"300 years as a globe conquering" island is pretty much ego and nationalism. Because hey, people love talking about how awesome the Empire was.

Maybe it is ego and nationalism, but the point is that it's Britian's ego and nationalism; one that UK-France-Germany is not part of.

...unless of course you count the alliances of the World Wars (with France...not so much Germany..), generally being at peace and the genetic makeup of our Royal family since 1066.

[Alyakia]

Wales, being far far more integrated with England, also doesn't leech from it (as much!!!) because Scotland is poor and their sole reason for any sort of political movement is FREEEEEEEEDOM and feeling cool. Good post.

Well I wouldn't say sole reason, but if I interview some Scottish 16 yr olds (the age of which Alex Salmond wants the vote to be brought down to for this referendum) I don't think I'd get- "Because Scotland could survive and even thrive very well with North Sea oil and the progressive social/economic policies which I've seen to be much better than those of Labour and the Conservatives".

If you only support unions with countries that you're already unified with I'd love to see what you'd have said in the 1600s.

"300 years as a globe conquering" island is pretty much ego and nationalism. Because hey, people love talking about how awesome the Empire was.

The point is that we have history, UK-France-Germany does not.

...unless of course you count the alliances of WW1, generally being at peace and the genetic makeup of our Royal Family.

And that history had to start somewhere. There was obviously a time where our history was... not the most friendly.

[Taboa]

I haven't read the entire thing but I've read the first page and this page so meh. I don't think Scotland should be independent, it's not sustainable at all, Scotland they'd need so much reform and extra spending to make it happen. I do politics at college and we've looked over this for weeks, even months and Scotland would be on its knees within a year, maybe less, the North Sea oil is contracted under the United Kingdom, not Scotland, therefore Scotland wouldn't have it. Their parliament doesn't have enough personnel to run it as effectively as the UK parliament as they employ a Single Transferable Vote system it means that the link between the representative and the constituency is gone, it leads to a lot of coalitions, voters have no say in which person is chosen, it also favors the big parties leaving no representation for people who don't believe in big party politics and all the power is in the hands of the party leadership. The Scottish Parliament has 129 members but it doesn't have a proper structure and it's inexperienced, I'm only 17 and I'm older than the Scottish Parliament. As it's been pointed out before British tax payers pay for the free education, healthcare and everything. Someone mentioned a transition thing but yet again all the Army, RAF, Navy, Police, Ambulance and Fire Service and all the other public services are contracted under the UK so you wouldn't have any of that, they'd be relocated across the rest of the UK, some would be let go but most would be used across the country. If Scotland want to be independent then go for it but don't come crying to us when you're broke, go to Norway or something.

[SD_Film Artists]

Well I wouldn't say sole reason, but if I interview some Scottish 16 yr olds (the age of which Alex Salmond wants the vote to be brought down to for this referendum) I don't think I'd get- "Because Scotland could survive and even thrive very well with North Sea oil and the progressive social/economic policies which I've seen to be much better than those of Labour and the Conservatives".



The point is that we have history, UK-France-Germany does not.

...unless of course you count the alliances of WW1, generally being at peace and the genetic makeup of our Royal Family.

And that history had to start somewhere. There was obviously a time where our history was... not the most friendly.

Indeed, Scotland used to be those ginger people over Hadrian's wall but for 300 years we've been one nation. I would like it if there was a super Euro-State, but for the moment the British union is the most realistic and with a 300-year proven track record).

[Zersium]

And that history had to start somewhere. There was obviously a time where our history was... not the most friendly.

Indeed, Scotland used to be those ginger people over Hadrian's wall but for 300 years we've been one nation. I would like it if there was a super Euro-State, but for the moment the British union is the most realistic and with a 300-year proven track record).

Well because Europe's gonna become a big union, have it's own army...

then before you know it America's gonna go Britannia on our asses. It'd be a lovely sight if England were to live like America. Well, Defence Scheme no.1...oh right, the Canadians can't take over America no more. Damnit, we lost our leeway.

[Alyakia]

I haven't read the entire thing but I've read the first page and this page so meh. I don't think Scotland should be independent, it's not sustainable at all, Scotland they'd need so much reform and extra spending to make it happen. I do politics at college and we've looked over this for weeks, even months and Scotland would be on its knees within a year, maybe less, the North Sea oil is contracted under the United Kingdom, not Scotland, therefore Scotland wouldn't have it. Their parliament doesn't have enough personnel to run it as effectively as the UK parliament as they employ a Single Transferable Vote system it means that the link between the representative and the constituency is gone, it leads to a lot of coalitions, voters have no say in which person is chosen, it also favors the big parties leaving no representation for people who don't believe in big party politics and all the power is in the hands of the party leadership. The Scottish Parliament has 129 members but it doesn't have a proper structure and it's inexperienced, I'm only 17 and I'm older than the Scottish Parliament. As it's been pointed out before British tax payers pay for the free education, healthcare and everything. Someone mentioned a transition thing but yet again all the Army, RAF, Navy, Police, Ambulance and Fire Service and all the other public services are contracted under the UK so you wouldn't have any of that, they'd be relocated across the rest of the UK, some would be let go but most would be used across the country. If Scotland want to be independent then go for it but don't come crying to us when you're broke, go to Norway or something.

so hey taboa

tell me about the latest scottish parliament election

do you have anything to back the idea they're all inexpereinced and useless except "WELL I'M 17 AND THERE'S NO WAY SOMETHING THAT'S NEW COULD DO ANYTHING RIGHT"?

[SD_Film Artists]

I haven't read the entire thing but I've read the first page and this page so meh. I don't think Scotland should be independent, it's not sustainable at all, Scotland they'd need so much reform and extra spending to make it happen. I do politics at college and we've looked over this for weeks, even months and Scotland would be on its knees within a year, maybe less, the North Sea oil is contracted under the United Kingdom, not Scotland, therefore Scotland wouldn't have it. Their parliament doesn't have enough personnel to run it as effectively as the UK parliament as they employ a Single Transferable Vote system it means that the link between the representative and the constituency is gone, it leads to a lot of coalitions, voters have no say in which person is chosen, it also favors the big parties leaving no representation for people who don't believe in big party politics and all the power is in the hands of the party leadership. The Scottish Parliament has 129 members but it doesn't have a proper structure and it's inexperienced, I'm only 17 and I'm older than the Scottish Parliament. As it's been pointed out before British tax payers pay for the free education, healthcare and everything. Someone mentioned a transition thing but yet again all the Army, RAF, Navy, Police, Ambulance and Fire Service and all the other public services are contracted under the UK so you wouldn't have any of that, they'd be relocated across the rest of the UK, some would be let go but most would be used across the country. If Scotland want to be independent then go for it but don't come crying to us when you're broke, go to Norway or something.

They probably will go to Norway, as that's who also wants the North Sea oil...and Orkney

[SD_Film Artists]

Indeed, Scotland used to be those ginger people over Hadrian's wall but for 300 years we've been one nation. I would like it if there was a super Euro-State, but for the moment the British union is the most realistic and with a 300-year proven track record).

Well because Europe's gonna become a big union, have it's own army...

then before you know it America's gonna go Britannia on our asses. It'd be a lovely sight if England were to live like America. Well, Defence Scheme no.1...oh right, the Canadians can't take over America no more. Damnit, we lost our leeway.

Pardon?

[Zersium]

Well because Europe's gonna become a big union, have it's own army...

then before you know it America's gonna go Britannia on our asses. It'd be a lovely sight if England were to live like America. Well, Defence Scheme no.1...oh right, the Canadians can't take over America no more. Damnit, we lost our leeway.

Pardon?

Oh it was just a joke.

Britannia - Code Geass Empire in America.

European Union - Those threads a while back on "An European Army".

And Defence Scheme no.1 - Canadian forces taking over America in the 1800's.

[SD_Film Artists]

Pardon?

Oh it was just a joke.

Britannia - Code Geass Empire in America.

European Union - Those threads a while back on "An European Army".

And Defence Scheme no.1 - Canadian forces taking over America in the 1800's.

Oh I know all that, apart from the Code Guass which Google says is an anime..

[Zersium]

Oh it was just a joke.

Britannia - Code Geass Empire in America.

European Union - Those threads a while back on "An European Army".

And Defence Scheme no.1 - Canadian forces taking over America in the 1800's.

Oh I know all that, apart from the Code Guass which Google says is an anime..

Yes it was supposed to be a joke saying we could be even more snobby and uptight towards the world than what we currently are.

[Uthopia]

There is no chance for an independent Scotland. If I am correct there is no permamnent residence in Britain and it could be used for manipulation during the referendum.

[SD_Film Artists]

Oh I know all that, apart from the Code Guass which Google says is an anime..

Yes it was supposed to be a joke saying we could be even more snobby and uptight towards the world than what we currently are.

I'm sorry to be a cold joke-killer then..

[Zersium]

Yes it was supposed to be a joke saying we could be even more snobby and uptight towards the world than what we currently are.

I'm sorry to be a cold joke-killer then..

I didn't say you were.

A-hem, on topic...

My opinion is mixed. But I don't think Scotland has the resources to be Independant.

[Taboa]

I haven't read the entire thing but I've read the first page and this page so meh. I don't think Scotland should be independent, it's not sustainable at all, Scotland they'd need so much reform and extra spending to make it happen. I do politics at college and we've looked over this for weeks, even months and Scotland would be on its knees within a year, maybe less, the North Sea oil is contracted under the United Kingdom, not Scotland, therefore Scotland wouldn't have it. Their parliament doesn't have enough personnel to run it as effectively as the UK parliament as they employ a Single Transferable Vote system it means that the link between the representative and the constituency is gone, it leads to a lot of coalitions, voters have no say in which person is chosen, it also favors the big parties leaving no representation for people who don't believe in big party politics and all the power is in the hands of the party leadership. The Scottish Parliament has 129 members but it doesn't have a proper structure and it's inexperienced, I'm only 17 and I'm older than the Scottish Parliament. As it's been pointed out before British tax payers pay for the free education, healthcare and everything. Someone mentioned a transition thing but yet again all the Army, RAF, Navy, Police, Ambulance and Fire Service and all the other public services are contracted under the UK so you wouldn't have any of that, they'd be relocated across the rest of the UK, some would be let go but most would be used across the country. If Scotland want to be independent then go for it but don't come crying to us when you're broke, go to Norway or something.

so hey taboa

tell me about the latest scottish parliament election

do you have anything to back the idea they're all inexpereinced and useless except "WELL I'M 17 AND THERE'S NO WAY SOMETHING THAT'S NEW COULD DO ANYTHING RIGHT"?

Seriously? I thought this was meant to be genuine debate, not where you try and insult someone who doesn't feel the same way as you do. The Scottish Parliament is inexperienced, it was made in 1998, the UK Parliament was made centuries ago, the Scottish Parliament is too inexperienced and undeveloped, maybe Scottish Independence in a century or so, but not now, it's not experienced enough. Although this will soon be shot down by Alyakia because if someone disagrees with him they're instantly wrong and should be insulted.

[South Asia Minor]

so hey taboa

tell me about the latest scottish parliament election

do you have anything to back the idea they're all inexpereinced and useless except "WELL I'M 17 AND THERE'S NO WAY SOMETHING THAT'S NEW COULD DO ANYTHING RIGHT"?

Seriously? I thought this was meant to be genuine debate, not where you try and insult someone who doesn't feel the same way as you do. The Scottish Parliament is inexperienced, it was made in 1998, the UK Parliament was made centuries ago, the Scottish Parliament is too inexperienced and undeveloped, maybe Scottish Independence in a century or so, but not now, it's not experienced enough. Although this will soon be shot down by Alyakia because if someone disagrees with him they're instantly wrong and should be insulted.

When was it declared that a parliament could only act on experience? Cromwell would not be happy.
Scotland had a parliament before, y'know. It got dissolved in the act of union.

[Uthopia]

Seriously? I thought this was meant to be genuine debate, not where you try and insult someone who doesn't feel the same way as you do. The Scottish Parliament is inexperienced, it was made in 1998, the UK Parliament was made centuries ago, the Scottish Parliament is too inexperienced and undeveloped, maybe Scottish Independence in a century or so, but not now, it's not experienced enough. Although this will soon be shot down by Alyakia because if someone disagrees with him they're instantly wrong and should be insulted.

When was it declared that a parliament could only act on experience? Cromwell would not be happy.
Scotland had a parliament before, y'know. It got dissolved in the act of union.

Was there any referendum for joining Scotland to the UK?

[SD_Film Artists]

so hey taboa

tell me about the latest scottish parliament election

do you have anything to back the idea they're all inexpereinced and useless except "WELL I'M 17 AND THERE'S NO WAY SOMETHING THAT'S NEW COULD DO ANYTHING RIGHT"?

Seriously? I thought this was meant to be genuine debate, not where you try and insult someone who doesn't feel the same way as you do. The Scottish Parliament is inexperienced, it was made in 1998, the UK Parliament was made centuries ago, the Scottish Parliament is too inexperienced and undeveloped, maybe Scottish Independence in a century or so, but not now, it's not experienced enough. Although this will soon be shot down by Alyakia because if someone disagrees with him they're instantly wrong and should be insulted.

The politicians aren't inexperienced- on the contrary, it takes a very experienced, intelligent bastard to be as strategic and opportunistic as Alex Salmond.

[Trixiestan]

Seriously? I thought this was meant to be genuine debate, not where you try and insult someone who doesn't feel the same way as you do. The Scottish Parliament is inexperienced, it was made in 1998, the UK Parliament was made centuries ago, the Scottish Parliament is too inexperienced and undeveloped, maybe Scottish Independence in a century or so, but not now, it's not experienced enough. Although this will soon be shot down by Alyakia because if someone disagrees with him they're instantly wrong and should be insulted.

Alyakia is a she.

And I've got literally no clue where you're going with the "inexperienced" thing. I mean, surely it has nothing to do with the age of the Parliament and everything to do with the experience of the people working within it; people who may well have worked within the British parliament. Besides, as you've pointed out the British parliament is centuries old and "experienced", yet it's full of complete tossers who seem to be doing a better job fucking the country over and acting like tits.

[SD_Film Artists]

When was it declared that a parliament could only act on experience? Cromwell would not be happy.
Scotland had a parliament before, y'know. It got dissolved in the act of union.

Was there any referendum for joining Scotland to the UK?

Back in those days, there wasn't a referendum for anything. Although, it wasn't as one-sided as some Scottish Nats might paint it as.

[Taboa]

When was it declared that a parliament could only act on experience? Cromwell would not be happy.
Scotland had a parliament before, y'know. It got dissolved in the act of union.

Was there any referendum for joining Scotland to the UK?

Scotland made the Union, King James inherited the English throne while King of Scotland.

Plus that was centuries ago, you can hardly count that, the new one was made in 1998, it needs more time to develop.

[SD_Film Artists]

Seriously? I thought this was meant to be genuine debate, not where you try and insult someone who doesn't feel the same way as you do. The Scottish Parliament is inexperienced, it was made in 1998, the UK Parliament was made centuries ago, the Scottish Parliament is too inexperienced and undeveloped, maybe Scottish Independence in a century or so, but not now, it's not experienced enough. Although this will soon be shot down by Alyakia because if someone disagrees with him they're instantly wrong and should be insulted.

Alyakia is a she.

And I've got literally no clue where you're going with the "inexperienced" thing. I mean, surely it has nothing to do with the age of the Parliament and everything to do with the experience of the people working within it; people who may well have worked within the British parliament. Besides, as you've pointed out the British parliament is centuries old and "experienced", yet it's full of complete tossers who seem to be doing a better job fucking the country over and acting like tits.

As said in the post before, the SNP's intelligent use of being highly strategic, opportunistic bastards conclusively proves that they're not inexperienced or unintelligent.

[Taboa]

Alyakia is a she.

And I've got literally no clue where you're going with the "inexperienced" thing. I mean, surely it has nothing to do with the age of the Parliament and everything to do with the experience of the people working within it; people who may well have worked within the British parliament. Besides, as you've pointed out the British parliament is centuries old and "experienced", yet it's full of complete tossers who seem to be doing a better job fucking the country over and acting like tits.

As said in the post before, the SNP's intelligent use of being highly strategic, opportunistic bastards conclusively proves that they're not inexperienced or unintelligent.

Not the politicians, the parliament, it needs time to develop it's ministries, voting system, everything really.

[South Asia Minor]

As said in the post before, the SNP's intelligent use of being highly strategic, opportunistic bastards conclusively proves that they're not inexperienced or unintelligent.

Not the politicians, the parliament, it needs time to develop it's ministries, voting system, everything really.

In what way? It seems perfectly capable of administrating the country at a devolved level at the moment.