Republican Primary Megathread (poll now updated)

[Mike the Progressive]

Exactly. I mean when one runs a company, you shouldn't fire anybody. That guy who kept missing deadlines and came in late, give that man a bonus! The other guy charged with sexual harassment, by George, why doesn't he fly with the corporate jet. The truth is any businessman, from Bill Gates to the Beloved Steve Jobs fired people. Thousands of people. And their companies, to be frank, are probably better off as a result.

And the end of the day, it's going to come down to this: Looking back, four years ago, are you better off? Do you feel the country is heading in the right direction? Are small businesses comfortable with hiring? Are consumers okay with spending? Did President Obama keep the promises that he made, from healthcare, which Obamacare established corporatism with, to foreign policy (expanding foreign intervention and neoconservative policies in Yemen, Libya, against Syria, Iran, etc.) and national security (National Defense Act, renewing features of the Patriot Act, Guantanamo Bay)?

It's a referendum on a candidate who ran as an agent for change and instead brought more of the same.

*shrug* im not saying its fair or just (but it is) im saying that people dont care much about theoretical wars if the candidate doesnt come right out and advocate them. they care that mr romney took over companies and fired people without a second thought.

real companies who have to lay off workers who have worked for them for many years HATE to lay those people off. they do it if they have to but only if they have to.

people who are unemployed, who were unemployed and now are working for less, people who are related to those who are unemployed, etc wont like a candidate who made his fortune firing people without a second thought.

Of please, as Derek Thompson pointed out "Romney was trying to say was that consumers like firing service-providing companies, not people..." Even the full quote says that, another example of sound biting, this time from the left.

Then again, how would you know what Romney thought when he laid off those people? How do you know what other corporations think when they lay off their employees? This is purely speculation based of your bias against anything republican.

[Alien Space Bats]

Please. The difference between Obama and the Republicans is the latter are honest of their views. Again, Obama ran as this "great" progressive to only do the same thing. At least with the Republicans, you know where they stand. Even polls show that the president's base is getting restless, angry and disenchanted. Do you think the same number of young adults will come out to vote? Do you think the same number of Latinos? Of blacks? And Asians? Whatever base Obama built was given victory because independent voters and those that rarely voted, did so out of the belief that he would change things. People don't care why things aren't changing, they only care why they haven't changed yet. Obama can keep whatever remains of his base, he's lost the independents and therefore the election.

"Looks like Obama screwed us by not doing what we wanted and selling us out in compromises with the opposition, so let's vote for people who say they really want to screw us over, and promise to do it faster, harder, and more thoroughly than anybody's ever done it before, as well as to rig the system so that the screw job lasts for decades to come. At least that's honest!"

<pause>

Who in the Hell actually thinks that way?

Yes, I think the base will turn out - because fear and anger motivate people far more than hope. Look at the GOP mobilization of 2010...

[Ashmoria]

*shrug* im not saying its fair or just (but it is) im saying that people dont care much about theoretical wars if the candidate doesnt come right out and advocate them. they care that mr romney took over companies and fired people without a second thought.

real companies who have to lay off workers who have worked for them for many years HATE to lay those people off. they do it if they have to but only if they have to.

people who are unemployed, who were unemployed and now are working for less, people who are related to those who are unemployed, etc wont like a candidate who made his fortune firing people without a second thought.

The people Romney said he liked or would like to fire are his insurance company. That quote is totally out of context (Romney's campaign people did actually try to defend the out-of-context quote without putting it in context but hey ...). Of course, it is true that 22% of the companies Bain "reorganized" ended up in bankruptcy. Here's a column from Denver's own Mike Littwin that explains it.

oh that was obvious from the beginning. its utterly unfair to take it not just out of context but to cut off the end of his freaking sentence.

but it is the kind of thing that people care about.

kinda like how they would rather have a beer with george bush even though he stopped drinking long ago.

[Mike the Progressive]

Please. The difference between Obama and the Republicans is the latter are honest of their views. Again, Obama ran as this "great" progressive to only do the same thing. At least with the Republicans, you know where they stand. Even polls show that the president's base is getting restless, angry and disenchanted. Do you think the same number of young adults will come out to vote? Do you think the same number of Latinos? Of blacks? And Asians? Whatever base Obama built was given victory because independent voters and those that rarely voted, did so out of the belief that he would change things. People don't care why things aren't changing, they only care why they haven't changed yet. Obama can keep whatever remains of his base, he's lost the independents and therefore the election.

"Looks like Obama screwed us by not doing what we wanted and selling us out in compromises with the opposition, so let's vote for people who say they really want to screw us, and promise to do it faster, harder, and more thoroughly than anybody's ever done it before, and to rig the system so that the screw jobs lasts for decades to come. At least that's honest!"

<pause>

Who in the Hell actually thinks that way?

Yes, I think the base will turn out - because fear and anger motivate people far more than hope. Look at the GOP mobilization of 2010...

The GOP mobilization of 2010? You mean the primaries where only 20% of GOP voters voted compared to the average presidential cycle, where that number shoots up to 50-60%? That mobilization?

[Alien Space Bats]

The GOP mobilization of 2010? You mean the primaries where only 20% of GOP voters voted compared to the average presidential cycle, where that number shoots up to 50-60%? That mobilization?

Are you telling me that the GOP didn't turn out a higher-than-usual number of voters in 2010 (for an off-year election)? Or are you telling me that the effort didn't matter?

We're currently in an era in which true independents are generally few and far between; voters may call themselves independents, but polling data suggests that most people who say they're independents actually predictably break one way or the other again and again and again; their independence is largely self-delusion, aimed at assuring them of an open-mindedness they don't have.

No, today's elections are won by turnout: Whether it's a quadrennial or off-year election, victory goes to the most motivated side. Democratic-leaning voters aren't going to go Republican - the GOP literally has nothing to offer them - any more than Republican-leaning voters are going to vote Democratic. Rather, the balance of power will depend on who manages to get their base mobilized and voting.

I think it far more likely that Republicans will stay home rather than support Mitt Romney - a man they really don't like or care for all that much - than Democrats staying home in the face of Republican outrages against unions (stripping collective bargaining rights from public-sector unions and calling for national right-to-work legislation), Latinos (ID-check laws and general asshattery aimed at "illegals" ["Isn't every Latino illegal?!?"]), professional women (abortion rights and now diminished access to birth control), working families (promised tax hikes for lower income voters, an end to the EIC, attacks on Social Security, Medicare, Pell Grants and student loans), pacifists (neo-con calls for more war in the Middle East), and intellectual liberals (the whole assault on activist government and efforts to make policy more millionaire-friendly). Within the traditional Democratic base, only blacks lack a hot-button issue to arouse them, and I rather suspect Republicans, in their present ham-handed triumphalist mood, will yet find a way to piss them off royally before the year is out.

[Free Soviets]

oh that was obvious from the beginning. its utterly unfair to take it not just out of context but to cut off the end of his freaking sentence.

though its not like romney gives a shit about being fair. he lies every single day, about both huge important things and stupid stuff. hell, he put out that ad attacking obama based on a quote so out of context that it was actually quoting john mccain.

so i say game on.

[Free Soviets]

Within the traditional Democratic base, only blacks lack a hot-button issue to arouse them, and I rather suspect Republicans, in their present ham-handed triumphalist mood, will yet find a way to piss them off royally before the year is out.

i suspect that the constant attacks on the first black president for somehow not being a 'real' american will do the trick, even if nothing else comes up.

[Ashmoria]

oh that was obvious from the beginning. its utterly unfair to take it not just out of context but to cut off the end of his freaking sentence.

though its not like romney gives a shit about being fair. he lies every single day, about both huge important things and stupid stuff. hell, he put out that ad attacking obama based on a quote so out of context that it was actually quoting john mccain.

so i say game on.

very true. playas get played.

but i look forward to some superpac putting out the an ad with those poor people who populate the antiromney ted kennedy ad talking about how awful it was to get fired cut with mitt romney happily saying that he loves to fire people.

having read 1/3 of "thinking fast and slow" i now understand the need for ads like this to sit in the back of everyone's mind. focusing on details of how awful the repubicans are can never be as powerful as planting the seed of "evil millionaire" into everyone's subconscious.

[Augustus Este]

Not as much as some would have you think.

Elections in the US are so close though that even if 1% of the people who would have supported him don't, it could cause him to lose the vote.

The kind of people who don't like Romney because he's a mormon are the same people who would vote for anyone but Obama

[Ashmoria]

Elections in the US are so close though that even if 1% of the people who would have supported him don't, it could cause him to lose the vote.

The kind of people who don't like Romney because he's a mormon are the same people who would vote for anyone but Obama

im so bitter that the thought of those evangelicals sucking it up and voting against jesus so they can get obama out of the white house fills me with glee.

[Farnhamia]

According to today's NY Times, Mittens got 40% of voters who say they support the Tea Party. Linky.

[Gauthier]

It's an asshole hat trick. I'm angrily impressed.

Really! States should have the right to decide whether or not their residents can use birth control, or to enact voter ID and registration rules than defeat the purpose of Federal Election Law (and, in the case of the the right of first-time voters to participate in the electoral system, the 26th Amendment), but States don't have the right to decide whether businesses and unions have the right to enter into closed shop contracts?!?

WTF?!?

States' rights, my ass. Anyone who believes that there should be a Nation Right-to-Work law has no god-damned right calling themselves a States' rights advocate - period.

Corporations are above states, silly. They're the Job Creators©.

[Sorratsin]

It's fairly telling how 2012's version of Barry Goldwater is the only moderate in the field. I'm still hoping for the GOP to balkanize, maybe it'll happen over this election.

What I don't understand is why pundits and just about everyone else is touting Romney as the "electability" candidate. I think Obama's people are salivating over Romney being a candidate, the man has a extensive record of flip flopping, the personality of a used car salesman, and used to manage a company that raided pension funds and drove businesses into the ground for profit. How the hell does anyone see him having a chance at winning?

[Farnhamia]

It's fairly telling how 2012's version of Barry Goldwater is the only moderate in the field. I'm still hoping for the GOP to balkanize, maybe it'll happen over this election.

What I don't understand is why pundits and just about everyone else is touting Romney as the "electability" candidate. I think Obama's people are salivating over Romney being a candidate, the man has a extensive record of flip flopping, the personality of a used car salesman, and used to manage a company that raided pension funds and drove businesses into the ground for profit. How the hell does anyone see him having a chance at winning?

It's perspective. Compared to Ron Paul, Jon Huntsman (who has less personality than Romney), the Newt and the Two Ricks or anyone else, yes, Mitt Romney does have a greater chance of defeating Obama. Not much of one but better than them.

[Sorratsin]

It's fairly telling how 2012's version of Barry Goldwater is the only moderate in the field. I'm still hoping for the GOP to balkanize, maybe it'll happen over this election.

What I don't understand is why pundits and just about everyone else is touting Romney as the "electability" candidate. I think Obama's people are salivating over Romney being a candidate, the man has a extensive record of flip flopping, the personality of a used car salesman, and used to manage a company that raided pension funds and drove businesses into the ground for profit. How the hell does anyone see him having a chance at winning?

It's perspective. Compared to Ron Paul, Jon Huntsman (who has less personality than Romney), the Newt and the Two Ricks or anyone else, yes, Mitt Romney does have a greater chance of defeating Obama. Not much of one but better than them.

From my perspective, they all have the same chance at beating Obama: a snowball's chance in hell.

Does the GOP not have a single person in their whole party who is more attractive than a bedsore?

[Farnhamia]

It's perspective. Compared to Ron Paul, Jon Huntsman (who has less personality than Romney), the Newt and the Two Ricks or anyone else, yes, Mitt Romney does have a greater chance of defeating Obama. Not much of one but better than them.

From my perspective, they all have the same chance at beating Obama: a snowball's chance in hell.

Does the GOP not have a single person in their whole party who is more attractive than a bedsore?

They aren't allowed. The GOP is all about ideological purity, whereas the Democrats ... Will Rogers' famous remark from the 20s still stands, "I belong to no organized party, I'm a Democrat."

[The Rich Port]

My money for the Republican nomination for prez is The Mitt.

I mean... For God's sakes, he IS The Republican Party.

He's a rich white religious man who preaches against taxation and big government but might actually increase both.

He is The Party Personified, even if he IS Mormon. Would you rather he were an atheist or, even worse, a MUSLIM; you know, EVERY CON'S WORST NIGHTMARE?

But, this entire thread brings up a very important question: is anyone actually voting Rep. in November?

[Farnhamia]

My money for the Republican nomination for prez is The Mitt.

I mean... For God's sakes, he IS The Republican Party.

He's a rich white religious man who preaches against taxation and big government but might actually increase both.

He is The Party Personified, even if he IS Mormon. Would you rather he were an atheist or, even worse, a MUSLIM; you know, EVERY CON'S WORST NIGHTMARE?

But, this entire thread brings up a very important question: is anyone actually voting Rep. in November?

Oh, some people will. It depends on whether the economy continues to improve.

[The Rich Port]

My money for the Republican nomination for prez is The Mitt.

I mean... For God's sakes, he IS The Republican Party.

He's a rich white religious man who preaches against taxation and big government but might actually increase both.

He is The Party Personified, even if he IS Mormon. Would you rather he were an atheist or, even worse, a MUSLIM; you know, EVERY CON'S WORST NIGHTMARE?

But, this entire thread brings up a very important question: is anyone actually voting Rep. in November?

Oh, some people will. It depends on whether the economy continues to improve.

Who is bribing who?

[The Black Forrest]

*shrug* im not saying its fair or just (but it is) im saying that people dont care much about theoretical wars if the candidate doesnt come right out and advocate them. they care that mr romney took over companies and fired people without a second thought.

real companies who have to lay off workers who have worked for them for many years HATE to lay those people off. they do it if they have to but only if they have to.

people who are unemployed, who were unemployed and now are working for less, people who are related to those who are unemployed, etc wont like a candidate who made his fortune firing people without a second thought.

Of please, as Derek Thompson pointed out "Romney was trying to say was that consumers like firing service-providing companies, not people..." Even the full quote says that, another example of sound biting, this time from the left.

Did you read the article? It's not defending ol'mitty. More or shows how out of touch he is with the common man. More like he doesn't give a shit.

Then again, how would you know what Romney thought when he laid off those people?

Oh I do. I worked with such people.

He doesn't care. He justifies it as a needed action for the betterment of the company.

How do you know what other corporations think when they lay off their employees?

Some execs actually care. They try many things to avoid the layoffs.

The more "free market" types jump on layoffs the minute things start going bad.

My company cares. They handle layoffs the way they should be done. The bottom 3 percent go.

This is purely speculation based of your bias against anything republican.

The best way to reduce bias is actually have a plan that doesn't only serve a small section of the population.

I know it's hard to understand but people can actually accept the opposition when they actually have a plan. It may have features, you don't like but it's a plan.

Problem with the batch of jackasses; their "plan" is stop anything Obama and more tax cuts for the Job Creators {sup]TM[/sup]

[Cannot think of a name]

My money for the Republican nomination for prez is The Mitt.

I mean... For God's sakes, he IS The Republican Party.

He's a rich white religious man who preaches against taxation and big government but might actually increase both.

He is The Party Personified, even if he IS Mormon. Would you rather he were an atheist or, even worse, a MUSLIM; you know, EVERY CON'S WORST NIGHTMARE?

But, this entire thread brings up a very important question: is anyone actually voting Rep. in November?

If they just picked a generic guy in a suit representing 'Republicans' (which, I guess you just argued is Romney) they'd win if the election was now. But it's not. And they're not. The election is a long, long way away and Obama doesn't have this thing sewn up by a long shot. Things are still shitty, people who didn't like him to begin with haven't changed their mind on the subject, people who projected a lot of shit on him maybe haven't realized that they projected those expectations onto him and are therefore upset. Plus, any number of things could happen between now and then. At this point it's just as likely that we'll be lead by a Ken doll as it is we'll continue under Obama.

Also, once out of options and saddled with Mr. Romney the party will more or less come together and stop undermining the crap out of him, just in time for the rest of the population to start paying attention.

[Grave_n_idle]

That theme only offers the challengers an opportunity if they can reasonably present themselves as able to deliver the change that the incumbent did not.

Can Republicans do this? No. They offer to not only do all the same things Obama did, but to do them all more forcefully and with fewer apologies, along with additional things that voters who wanted change would find even more unpalatable. That fact puts the ball back in the President's court, as he can keep his base by saying, in essence, "I never said that change was easy, and I never said that it would come overnight.")

Please. The difference between Obama and the Republicans is the latter are honest of their views. Again, Obama ran as this "great" progressive ...

...no, he didn't?

He ran as 'not Bush'. He ran as 'change' and 'hope'. But he didn't run as 'progressive'. He ran pretty firmly in the political centre.

[Romanar]

It's perspective. Compared to Ron Paul, Jon Huntsman (who has less personality than Romney), the Newt and the Two Ricks or anyone else, yes, Mitt Romney does have a greater chance of defeating Obama. Not much of one but better than them.

I don't see how the guy who lost to a 100 year old half-senile guy 4 years ago is more "electable" than anyone, with the possible exception of Ron Paul.

[Ashmoria]

It's perspective. Compared to Ron Paul, Jon Huntsman (who has less personality than Romney), the Newt and the Two Ricks or anyone else, yes, Mitt Romney does have a greater chance of defeating Obama. Not much of one but better than them.

I don't see how the guy who lost to a 100 year old half-senile guy 4 years ago is more "electable" than anyone, with the possible exception of Ron Paul.

mostly because the rest of the candidates are even worse.

a cranky old coot who has a gold obsession

a cranky young kook who belongs to opus dei and thinks that jesus wants him to bomb iran

a nasty old letch who got drummed out of govt 15 years ago

a texas governor who makes W look pretty damned smart.

a guy who used to work for the democratic president (and for those of us who are democrats...who LOOOOOVES the ryan budget)

[Cannot think of a name]

Ron Paul '12

You have your own thread now.