NationStates

JK, but, it seems possible...

there is some good evidence that comes up every once in a while that can't be explained.
But that does not mean aliens did it.

Farnhamia wrote:

Doppio Giudici wrote:
If I remember correctly all our ways of gathering proof are flawed. We could just be brains in a vat or any number of different possibities

Seriously? Someone asks for evidence and your answer is, The Matrix?

Thats not the matrix , Thats a mathmatic proof writen by a scientist at the top of his game. Look it up! I am merely pointing out that we can never be sure that anything is true or false.

Doppio Giudici wrote:

Farnhamia wrote:Seriously? Someone asks for evidence and your answer is, The Matrix?

Thats not the matrix , Thats a mathmatic proof writen by a scientist at the top of his game. Look it up! I am merely pointing out that we can never be sure that anything is true or false.

Quoth thy NSG, "Source?"

Nationstatelandsville wrote:

Xanixi wrote:
Correct; there is no evidence to truly believe that aliens did, have, or will contact Humanity. But there is no standing evidence that God ever did. I don't call religion nonsense, and I'd appreciate it if you didn't call the possibility of other species having an influence on Humanity nonsense.

Difference: Religion makes sense, in a way. It is logical to aspire to better yourself, as it is logical to assume that there are higher beings that created us.

It is illogical, however, to assume that these beings came here in UFO's because you assume some long dead Africans couldn't put rocks on top of rocks.

???
Religion? Making sense? To avoid starting some flame battles here, Ill just request some evidence as to how Religion makes sense.

Also, Im not saying that. I never stated that aliens helped them build things, I just suggested that its possible ancient religions were based off of misunderstandings from contact with Aliens rather than actual gods.

Doppio Giudici wrote:

The Blaatschapen wrote:
Quite a lot of assumptions there. Why would sentient life be humanoid? Why would it speak or walk upright? Especially walking upright is not a given imo if the gravity on their planet of origin is higher. Walking upright in such a case would simply cost too much energy. Also, indeed their energy intake might be wholly different (no use of NADP+ etc.). Hell, they might not even have DNA but use something different.

I already explained that to be sentient you need to have arms in order to make and use tools , arms require you to walk up right or you just have 4 legs. If it can't speak or use sign language then nothing would happen. A increase of gravity means a lack of sentiant life or thick , strong sentiant life. I think a lack of DNA is a bit radical and extremely unlikely

Well, a lack of DNA might not be unlikely. Already between us and bacteria, both have DNA but ours is in the form of chromosomes while theirs is in a circular form. Then there's the whole coding thing where 3 base pairs translate to 1 amino acid. Such things might be wildly different in aliens too. Not to mention if they're not carbon based but say, silicon based.

Also, dolphins are very intelligent. Are they sentient or not? Wiki says: "Sentience is the ability to feel, perceive or be conscious, or to have subjective experiences. " now I have no clue how we can measure such a thing, but I really wonder.

Safe to say, if there is intelligent alien life out there, it can be wildly different from us, all depending on the circumstances in which they evolved.

PS. Perhaps the aliens can also have 4 legs and two arms, thus not required to walk upright.

All this "ancient astronauts" bullshit is based on the misassumption that ancient peoples were dumb. The Pyramids, how did those brown egyptians build those huge things? Surely they must have lacked the tools and expertise needed. Aliens from outer space must have helped them!

Fact is, people back then are no different from us, apart from the fact that they probably had horrible oral hygiene. They were just as intelligent and creative as we are today.

Doppio Giudici wrote:

Farnhamia wrote:Seriously? Someone asks for evidence and your answer is, The Matrix?

Thats not the matrix , Thats a mathmatic proof writen by a scientist at the top of his game. Look it up! I am merely pointing out that we can never be sure that anything is true or false.

Any number of possibilities =/= all possibilities are equally probable.

Xanixi wrote:

Nationstatelandsville wrote:
Difference: Religion makes sense, in a way. It is logical to aspire to better yourself, as it is logical to assume that there are higher beings that created us.

It is illogical, however, to assume that these beings came here in UFO's because you assume some long dead Africans couldn't put rocks on top of rocks.

???
Religion? Making sense? To avoid starting some flame battles here, Ill just request some evidence as to how Religion makes sense.

Also, Im not saying that. I never stated that aliens helped them build things, I just suggested that its possible ancient religions were based off of misunderstandings from contact with Aliens rather than actual gods.

From a psychological standpoint.

But why do you think that? If you're going to ask us to respect your ideals, give us a logical reason why.

I already explained that to be sentient you need to have arms in order to make and use tools , arms require you to walk up right or you just have 4 legs. If it can't speak or use sign language then nothing would happen. A increase of gravity means a lack of sentiant life or thick , strong sentiant life. I think a lack of DNA is a bit radical and extremely unlikely[/quote]
Why do you need arms? Or at least, appendages that are specifically defined? Why can't they have tentacles or all manner of things we can't imagine.

If you're asking people to think big on the subject of other life, ask yourself to think big on your ideas of the aesthetics and functions of life.[/quote]

You need fingers to pick things up , tentacles dont have fingers! Plus that takes up to much room in the brain to power and your idea's are a bit more radical then thought problem radical

My coworker believes in aliens, bigfoot and massive sea monsters that live in lakes. She also believes in real werewolf-like creatures and ghosts. So to disprove my scepticism she brought in a map of the state we live in that lists all the sightings of the above mentioned creatures ever to be recorded. It was very interesting to see the migration patters of bigfoot and I noticed there were a lot of sightings in the 60's and 70's. Strange times indeed, and since they're all on a high-quality map, it has to be real right? Also, there were business ads on the map so if anyone is in need of a good Bigfoot or alien researcher, I have his business and home phone number.

Nationstatelandsville wrote:

Doppio Giudici wrote:
Thats not the matrix , Thats a mathmatic proof writen by a scientist at the top of his game. Look it up! I am merely pointing out that we can never be sure that anything is true or false.

Quoth thy NSG, "Source?"

Im reading from a book on the 100 mathmatic proofs and you could GOOGLE IT.

Doppio Giudici wrote:

Nationstatelandsville wrote:
Quoth thy NSG, "Source?"

Im reading from a book on the 100 mathmatic proofs and you could GOOGLE IT.

It's up to you to prove your argument. That includes providing the sources.

Jusela wrote:All this "ancient astronauts" bullshit is based on the misassumption that ancient peoples were dumb. The Pyramids, how did those brown egyptians build those huge things? Surely they must have lacked the tools and expertise needed. Aliens from outer space must have helped them!

Fact is, people back then are no different from us, apart from the fact that they probably had horrible oral hygiene. They were just as intelligent and creative as we are today.

Im going to assume that the first part wasn't aimed at me, since I never mentioned they helped Humans build.

The second part: Humans weren't as intelligent was we are now. Our advancements in technology have allowed us to become smarter, and, as theories get erased and replaced, we gain more intelligence from what we can observe.

Doppio Giudici wrote:I already explained that to be sentient you need to have arms in order to make and use tools , arms require you to walk up right or you just have 4 legs. If it can't speak or use sign language then nothing would happen. A increase of gravity means a lack of sentiant life or thick , strong sentiant life. I think a lack of DNA is a bit radical and extremely unlikely

Why do you need arms? Or at least, appendages that are specifically defined? Why can't they have tentacles or all manner of things we can't imagine.

If you're asking people to think big on the subject of other life, ask yourself to think big on your ideas of the aesthetics and functions of life.[/quote]

You need fingers to pick things up , tentacles dont have fingers! Plus that takes up to much room in the brain to power and your idea's are a bit more radical then thought problem radical[/quote]

Our new octopus overlords would like to have a talk with you. They pick things up just fine.

No. That was easy.

Well, a lack of DNA might not be unlikely. Already between us and bacteria, both have DNA but ours is in the form of chromosomes while theirs is in a circular form. Then there's the whole coding thing where 3 base pairs translate to 1 amino acid. Such things might be wildly different in aliens too. Not to mention if they're not carbon based but say, silicon based.

Also, dolphins are very intelligent. Are they sentient or not? Wiki says: "Sentience is the ability to feel, perceive or be conscious, or to have subjective experiences. " now I have no clue how we can measure such a thing, but I really wonder.

Safe to say, if there is intelligent alien life out there, it can be wildly different from us, all depending on the circumstances in which they evolved.

PS. Perhaps the aliens can also have 4 legs and two arms, thus not required to walk upright.[/quote]

*bangs head on table*

NOOOOO! If you aren't upright then you can't build things or look up that well, you can't even see predators or friends. Why do you think we are getting taller every generation?

Xanixi wrote:

Jusela wrote:All this "ancient astronauts" bullshit is based on the misassumption that ancient peoples were dumb. The Pyramids, how did those brown egyptians build those huge things? Surely they must have lacked the tools and expertise needed. Aliens from outer space must have helped them!

Fact is, people back then are no different from us, apart from the fact that they probably had horrible oral hygiene. They were just as intelligent and creative as we are today.

Im going to assume that the first part wasn't aimed at me, since I never mentioned they helped Humans build.

The second part: Humans weren't as intelligent was we are now. Our advancements in technology have allowed us to become smarter, and, as theories get erased and replaced, we gain more intelligence from what we can observe.

No. We're just more informed. There's a difference.

You don't need to be informed to stack rocks on rocks. But, as that's not your argument, we'll move on from that.

Theory is just theory.

Until there is credible evidence to support either side, I will remain neutral on the subject.

Doppio Guudici wrote:

DesAnges wrote:Why do you need arms? Or at least, appendages that are specifically defined? Why can't they have tentacles or all manner of things we can't imagine.

If you're asking people to think big on the subject of other life, ask yourself to think big on your ideas of the aesthetics and functions of life.

You need fingers to pick things up , tentacles dont have fingers! Plus that takes up to much room in the brain to power and your idea's are a bit more radical then thought problem radical

The Oxford English Dictionary's definition of sentience, btw:

able to perceive or feel things

The point of tentacles are that they are flexible and prehensile - therefore, the need for fingers is, well, not a need at all. Once again, you are limiting your definitions of life to the humanoid, this time in the brain size - computing power ratio. Why are the aliens' brains not wired differently? They might have much more efficient neural pathways and therefore the use of tentacles would not require so much power. Although your assumption of tentacles requiring a lot of brain power is somewhat dubious in the first place.

And I can't answer the point about my radical ideas because it doesn't make sense...

Doppio Giudici wrote:

The Blaatschapen wrote:
Quite a lot of assumptions there. Why would sentient life be humanoid? Why would it speak or walk upright? Especially walking upright is not a given imo if the gravity on their planet of origin is higher. Walking upright in such a case would simply cost too much energy. Also, indeed their energy intake might be wholly different (no use of NADP+ etc.). Hell, they might not even have DNA but use something different.

I already explained that to be sentient you need to have arms in order to make and use tools , arms require you to walk up right or you just have 4 legs. If it can't speak or use sign language then nothing would happen. A increase of gravity means a lack of sentiant life or thick , strong sentiant life. I think a lack of DNA is a bit radical and extremely unlikely

Brains are already massively energy-hungry organs. More than two arms and two legs and you have a brain that has more resources dedicated to motor control than ours, which assuming an approximate mass, means a brain less capable of speech and abstract thought. In order to have multiple limbs dedicated to manipulating objects to the degree we humans are capable and have the same neural complexity, I would think that such a creature would eat like crazy, and having to allocate resources to digestion/consumption would take resources away from brain development....

It is like how in Sci-Fi you have those races with redundant organs who are super hard to kill as a result. The extra organs would compete with brain development and reproduction. In short, I agree with Doppio Giudici. Because the alternative is that we encounter the sort of bizarre lifeforms that Stanislaw Lem writes about.

Nationstatelandsville wrote:

Doppio Giudici wrote:
Im reading from a book on the 100 mathmatic proofs and you could GOOGLE IT.

It's up to you to prove your argument. That includes providing the sources.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_in_a_vat
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/brain-vat/
http://www.iep.utm.edu/brainvat/

THERE ARE YOU HAPPY NOW? Why do people have to be so darn lazy?

Canada Remnants wrote:Theory is just theory.

It's not even a theory. It's an idea...

Nationstatelandsville wrote:

Xanixi wrote:
???
Religion? Making sense? To avoid starting some flame battles here, Ill just request some evidence as to how Religion makes sense.

Also, Im not saying that. I never stated that aliens helped them build things, I just suggested that its possible ancient religions were based off of misunderstandings from contact with Aliens rather than actual gods.

From a psychological standpoint.

But why do you think that? If you're going to ask us to respect your ideals, give us a logical reason why.

To be honest, there isn't an actual reason that I can fully back up with any full evidence. This is all speculation from me at 10:20 PM. But if current/past religions were influenced by anything, I think the best chance would be that it was a misunderstood contact with Aliens that influenced the idea of another being having unlimited power when, in reality, it was just their technology. We were so new to the technological scale, that the pure presence of this technology made us believe that they were the being that created us. I was even told that these types of things were created because humans didn't have another way to explain the different things that occurred in the world.

But, please, elaborate on how religion makes sense.

Doppio Giudici wrote:

Nationstatelandsville wrote:
It's up to you to prove your argument. That includes providing the sources.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_in_a_vat
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/brain-vat/
http://www.iep.utm.edu/brainvat/

THERE ARE YOU HAPPY NOW? Why do people have to be so darn lazy?

It's not laziness. It's basic debating skill and etiquette.