Atheism: What's the point?

[Deschenek]

Atheism is stupid having no religion, religion is like insurance if atheism is real and there are no gods well it doesnt matter your gonna die anyway but if a god is real like the god of the bble or something you can look forward to burning in a lake of sulfur or something like that I read in revelations so I like religion and Christianity is the most popular religion (even though thats a logical fallacy of appealing to the people) so thats whaT i do like anybody cares

do you have the hindu gods covered too? what about the greek pantheon? could you pass the egyptian death test?

its not just the christian god you have to worry about...what if its ISLAM and you have doomed yourself with bacon cheeseburgers and beer?

and If you dont believe in the Hindu gods you just turn into a bee for a few days reincarnated and then rise up the ranks again if you achieve the purpose the Gods set out for you
*sigh* I am looking very stupid right now.
and the greeks and egyptian gods are mostly defunct now

[Dyakovo]

Atheism is stupid having no religion, religion is like insurance if atheism is real and there are no gods well it doesnt matter your gonna die anyway but if a god is real like the god of the bble or something you can look forward to burning in a lake of sulfur or something like that I read in revelations so I like religion and Christianity is the most popular religion (even though thats a logical fallacy of appealing to the people) so thats whaT i do like anybody cares

do you have the hindu gods covered too? what about the greek pantheon? could you pass the egyptian death test?

its not just the christian god you have to worry about...what if its ISLAM and you have doomed yourself with bacon cheeseburgers and beer?

and If you dont believe in the Hindu gods you just turn into a bee for a few days reincarnated and then rise up the ranks again if you achieve the purpose the Gods set out for you
*sigh* I am looking very stupid right now.
and the greeks and egyptian gods are mostly defunct now

Just because no-one (or very very few people) worship them does not mean that they aren't the "right" ones...

[Psychedelie]

First of all please excuse my English as I'm not a native speaker

Please also excuse me for not talking to the whole 'theist' part of you guys. I just think you are wrong, and since no one of us can prove what he claims, there's just no point in talking to each other. I just decided - instead of taking ONE only book written by crazy folks some 2000 years ago as the ultimate truth - to listen to fellow scientists who just spent their lives working on things, to assume that there's is a 99% chance that there is no God.

I'm just talking to any other atheist here, implicit, explicit, or anything.....

The problem is not to know if we are right to assume there is no God. We are indeed pretty right to assume it since Darwin. The problem is to know how some people can lie to themselves. How can you guys, seriously, use the internet to post theist arguments without even noticing the contradiction in doing so ? The very science that you use to try and explain yourself is almost in total contradiction with your beliefs.


And to all those who'd like to answer saying something like 'I know there's a God, you're wrong', I'd like to say something like : 'I know there's a giant spaghetti monster, and since you can't disprove me, that must mean I'm right. I mean, isn't that the very point you're making ?'

Anyone who don't get this is just stupid and doesn't deserve to be listened to.

[New Brittonia]

Honestly, I just feel that there is a God and I've never could bear the idea that someone who was born in Bermuda could die because they were Christian and God happens to be what Al-Qaeda believes this entire time.

And it's not like I'm really losing anything here, honestly. I mean I don't feel like I'm wasting my life.

I have no problem with feelings when we have the self-control to keep them to ourselves. The problem is we've got an awful lot of people in the world who not only feel that there's a god, but they also claim to know that their god wants them to impose theocratic rule upon everyone, and those who reject such rule should be punished. So far as I've seen, they're in every single nation around the world, and they've been stirring up a lot of trouble lately. Plus, they claim kinship with you because you also believe in a god, even if your beliefs about that god are heretical to them. It won't spare you from their wrath, but it does provide them with some measure of validation.

So, what's your god doing about that little quirk in his system?

Religious fanatics?

Interestingly, Bahu'allah (the prophet in the Baha'i faith) wrote that if religion served more bad than good in the world than there shouldn't be any religion at all.

The word religion comes from the Latin word for "to bind or to bring together" and you saw that in history. Judaism was used to unite the 12 tribes of Israel, for a Period Europe was known as "Christendom", Mohammed brought all of Arabia under Islam. The idea is that each religion had a purpose for its specific time and place, God sent down prophets when it was needed to do so. Now you can see the religious fanatics; whether that be in Taliban supporters in Afghanistan, churchgoers in Topeka, or settlers in the West bank.

The Baha'i faith would be the faith for the modern era.

[Canuck Utopia]

Anyone who don't get this is just stupid and doesn't deserve to be listened to.

Yeah okay......your argument is so .....BLANK THAT I CANNOT SEE IT

[Grave_n_idle]

Anyone who don't get this is just stupid and doesn't deserve to be listened to.

Yeah okay......your argument is so .....BLANK THAT I CANNOT SEE IT

So. Babies.

Do they believe in gods?

[Buffett and Colbert]

Anyone who don't get this is just stupid and doesn't deserve to be listened to.

Yeah okay......your argument is so .....BLANK THAT I CANNOT SEE IT

So. Babies.

Do they believe in gods?

That was already discussed.

[Blasphemulopia]

Babies are free from the shackles of religion, until their parents force indoctrination upon them. Unfortunately this turns many people into drones for the various churches. The fortunate ones will realize the religion they were taught is utter crap when they are old enough to think for themselves. Many will think their religion is crap but still pretend that they have faith in it.

[Dyakovo]

Babies are free from the shackles of religion, until their parents force indoctrination upon them. Unfortunately this turns many people into drones for the various churches. The fortunate ones will realize the religion they were taught is utter crap when they are old enough to think for themselves. Many will think their religion is crap but still pretend that they have faith in it.

How do you know that their religion is crap?

[Grave_n_idle]

That was already discussed.

Indeed it was, except that Canuck has yet to actually provide an answer to that specific question.

I'd bet he won't answer it this time, either.

[Blasphemulopia]

Babies are free from the shackles of religion, until their parents force indoctrination upon them. Unfortunately this turns many people into drones for the various churches. The fortunate ones will realize the religion they were taught is utter crap when they are old enough to think for themselves. Many will think their religion is crap but still pretend that they have faith in it.

How do you know that their religion is crap?

all religions are crap

[Ashmoria]

Atheism is stupid having no religion, religion is like insurance if atheism is real and there are no gods well it doesnt matter your gonna die anyway but if a god is real like the god of the bble or something you can look forward to burning in a lake of sulfur or something like that I read in revelations so I like religion and Christianity is the most popular religion (even though thats a logical fallacy of appealing to the people) so thats whaT i do like anybody cares

do you have the hindu gods covered too? what about the greek pantheon? could you pass the egyptian death test?

its not just the christian god you have to worry about...what if its ISLAM and you have doomed yourself with bacon cheeseburgers and beer?

and If you dont believe in the Hindu gods you just turn into a bee for a few days reincarnated and then rise up the ranks again if you achieve the purpose the Gods set out for you
*sigh* I am looking very stupid right now.
and the greeks and egyptian gods are mostly defunct now

someone on this forum claimed to be a neo-egyptianist. (whatever the word for that would be)

[UNIverseVERSE]

Look, do you really want to play the dictionary game? Here you go. Note that a theist is one who has belief in a god or gods, as opposed an atheist, who would then be one who lacks such belief.

Seriously, can we move on from this already? What's so problematic about defining people who say "I do not believe that there is a God" as atheist? It's the fucking definition of the word: 'a-theist', literally 'not-theist' -- that is, 'one who does not believe in a god'.

No, we need to continue this petty and fruitless debate for another 20 pages. What are you, new to NSG?

/me idly examines his joined date

No, I think not.

[Treznor]

I have no problem with feelings when we have the self-control to keep them to ourselves. The problem is we've got an awful lot of people in the world who not only feel that there's a god, but they also claim to know that their god wants them to impose theocratic rule upon everyone, and those who reject such rule should be punished. So far as I've seen, they're in every single nation around the world, and they've been stirring up a lot of trouble lately. Plus, they claim kinship with you because you also believe in a god, even if your beliefs about that god are heretical to them. It won't spare you from their wrath, but it does provide them with some measure of validation.

So, what's your god doing about that little quirk in his system?

Religious fanatics?

Interestingly, Bahu'allah (the prophet in the Baha'i faith) wrote that if religion served more bad than good in the world than there shouldn't be any religion at all.

The word religion comes from the Latin word for "to bind or to bring together" and you saw that in history. Judaism was used to unite the 12 tribes of Israel, for a Period Europe was known as "Christendom", Mohammed brought all of Arabia under Islam. The idea is that each religion had a purpose for its specific time and place, God sent down prophets when it was needed to do so. Now you can see the religious fanatics; whether that be in Taliban supporters in Afghanistan, churchgoers in Topeka, or settlers in the West bank.

The Baha'i faith would be the faith for the modern era.

I could get behind this if my father-in-law wasn't strictly anti-religious, anti-Semetic and pro-faith. He's one of the most bigoted men I've ever known, and his faith is the cornerstone of his bigotry.

What happens when one person converts another to their faith? They become part of a religion. Faith is what encourages people to organize religions. Faith is what tells people their interpretation of scripture and spirituality is true. Faith is the problem, not religion. Faith is the foundation of all religion, so if religion is a problem then faith cannot be held blameless. All religious fanatics act as they do because of their faith, not in spite of it.

Take away religion, and faith in gods will become increasingly rare among humans within a few generations. If no one teaches their faith to anyone else, no one will have reason to have faith. Those individuals who espouse faith without religion never arrive at that conclusion without first having been indoctrinated by a religion, so I don't see how it's possible to separate the two without the demise of both.

[Treznor]

[snippity]

The problem is not to know if we are right to assume there is no God. We are indeed pretty right to assume it since Darwin. The problem is to know how some people can lie to themselves. How can you guys, seriously, use the internet to post theist arguments without even noticing the contradiction in doing so ? The very science that you use to try and explain yourself is almost in total contradiction with your beliefs.

[snip]

Anyone who don't get this is just stupid and doesn't deserve to be listened to.

I understand your sentiment, but we're not here to convince the faithful. We know better than that. They're not going to listen (as the past few conversations have aptly demonstrated). What we can do is provide a rational context within the conversation. I learn as much by observing the arguments of my fellow atheists as I do by doing my own private research. At some point, I read an argument from someone calling faith into question and I had examine it honestly. I didn't become an atheist all at once. There was a period of separation as I struggled to come to terms with the way I had been taught to think versus the skills of critical thinking I was taught not to apply. I went from Christian to deist to agnostic to atheist. It's a process, and this thread can serve to help folks with that process, either to begin it or to continue it.

Simply denouncing theists as unworthy of conversation doesn't help. Listening to their arguments and forming responses is part of how we learn. It's all good.

[Dyakovo]

[snippity]

The problem is not to know if we are right to assume there is no God. We are indeed pretty right to assume it since Darwin. The problem is to know how some people can lie to themselves. How can you guys, seriously, use the internet to post theist arguments without even noticing the contradiction in doing so ? The very science that you use to try and explain yourself is almost in total contradiction with your beliefs.

[snip]

Anyone who don't get this is just stupid and doesn't deserve to be listened to.

I understand your sentiment, but we're not here to convince the faithful. We know better than that. They're not going to listen (as the past few conversations have aptly demonstrated). What we can do is provide a rational context within the conversation. I learn as much by observing the arguments of my fellow atheists as I do by doing my own private research. At some point, I read an argument from someone calling faith into question and I had examine it honestly. I didn't become an atheist all at once. There was a period of separation as I struggled to come to terms with the way I had been taught to think versus the skills of critical thinking I was taught not to apply. I went from Christian to deist to agnostic to atheist. It's a process, and this thread can serve to help folks with that process, either to begin it or to continue it.

Simply denouncing theists as unworthy of conversation doesn't help. Listening to their arguments and forming responses is part of how we learn. It's all good.

Well stated, a lot of my understanding of my own beliefs is actually thanks to religious discussions on NSG (and much can be attributed to GnI specifically as he has helped me immensely in understanding my own beliefs).

[Grave_n_idle]

Well stated, a lot of my understanding of my own beliefs is actually thanks to religious discussions on NSG (and much can be attributed to GnI specifically as he has helped me immensely in understanding my own beliefs).

Yay! Someone said something about me that wasn't calling me a bastard! *sends letter home*

Same here, actually - NSG has been very important to my growth in many areas, not least in my understanding of my own 'faith' (or lack, thereof).

[Dyakovo]

Well stated, a lot of my understanding of my own beliefs is actually thanks to religious discussions on NSG (and much can be attributed to GnI specifically as he has helped me immensely in understanding my own beliefs).

Yay! Someone said something about me that wasn't calling me a bastard! *sends letter home*

Same here, actually - NSG has been very important to my growth in many areas, not least in my understanding of my own 'faith' (or lack, thereof).

I never said you weren't a bastard...

[Treznor]

Well stated, a lot of my understanding of my own beliefs is actually thanks to religious discussions on NSG (and much can be attributed to GnI specifically as he has helped me immensely in understanding my own beliefs).

Yay! Someone said something about me that wasn't calling me a bastard! *sends letter home*

Same here, actually - NSG has been very important to my growth in many areas, not least in my understanding of my own 'faith' (or lack, thereof).

I never said you weren't a bastard...

It's one of his better qualities. Gni rocks.

[Grave_n_idle]

Well stated, a lot of my understanding of my own beliefs is actually thanks to religious discussions on NSG (and much can be attributed to GnI specifically as he has helped me immensely in understanding my own beliefs).

Yay! Someone said something about me that wasn't calling me a bastard! *sends letter home*

Same here, actually - NSG has been very important to my growth in many areas, not least in my understanding of my own 'faith' (or lack, thereof).

I never said you weren't a bastard...

*Screws up letter*

Foiled again...

[Grave_n_idle]

It's one of his better qualities. Gni rocks.

It's the avatar, isn't it?

Who could hate "Making Fiends"?

*bows* many thanks

[Treznor]

It's one of his better qualities. Gni rocks.

It's the avatar, isn't it?

Who could hate "Making Fiends"?

*bows* many thanks

Uh...avatar. Yeah, that's it. Your avatar.

Oh, the hell with it. I want you for your mind. I don't care if that makes me a slut.

[Dyakovo]

It's one of his better qualities. Gni rocks.

It's the avatar, isn't it?

Who could hate "Making Fiends"?

*bows* many thanks

Uh...avatar. Yeah, that's it. Your avatar.

Oh, the hell with it. I want you for your mind. I don't care if that makes me a slut.

Slut

[Northern Castesene]

So don't Atheists believe in SCIENCE?

*plays electronic keyboard*

[Treznor]

So don't Atheists believe in SCIENCE?

*plays electronic keyboard*

No. I question science and look for independent verification. However, we tend to approve of the scientific method.