Attraction is Objectification

[Der Teutoniker]

Any outward manifestation of male attraction toward females appears to cause them psychological harm.

Not so.

My wife loves how attractive I find her.

And that's why generally shouldn't make absolute statements.

[The Floridian Coast]

You keep getting further and further away from what the paper actually says.

And this statement is probably the most vile and terrible lie I've ever seen in print. There's a huge body of literature on the correlation between self-esteem and feeling that others are attracted to you, regardless of gender.

Any thought of any person ever finding me sexually attractive is humiliating, degrading, and overwhelmingly unbearable. Thinking about the possibility that someone could view me as attractive or as something to have sex with causes me extraordinary mental anguish. And this is just from imagining what it would be like to be viewed sexually. Actually being viewed sexually must be far worse.

Who am I to put any other human through this?

FST, unless you live in the middle of a desert or a cave away from human civilization, or in some kind of commune for asexuals, I can guarantee you that you HAVE been viewed sexually thousands of times in your life. It doesn't matter how unattractive you think you are - there is a segment of the population which could be complete strangers who will look at you and get horny. Some because they are horny regardless and going to find attraction to the first mature human in sight, and some because you are ACTUALLY attractive to them. You haven't imagined anything.

Most men, and most women ENJOY being viewed as sexually appealing. Some might view it as a confidence booster. Most people do not think being attractive equals being treated as an object.

[Coffee Cakes]

Any thought of any person ever finding me sexually attractive is humiliating, degrading, and overwhelmingly unbearable. Thinking about the possibility that someone could view me as attractive or as something to have sex with causes me extraordinary mental anguish. And this is just from imagining what it would be like to be viewed sexually. Actually being viewed sexually must be far worse.

Who am I to put any other human through this?

I actually love the idea of people finding me sexually attractive. It strokes my ego.

^This

[Nightkill the Emperor]

Any thought of any person ever finding me sexually attractive is humiliating, degrading, and overwhelmingly unbearable. Thinking about the possibility that someone could view me as attractive or as something to have sex with causes me extraordinary mental anguish. And this is just from imagining what it would be like to be viewed sexually. Actually being viewed sexually must be far worse.

Who am I to put any other human through this?

I actually love the idea of people finding me sexually attractive. It strokes my ego.

This.

[Unchecked Expansion]

Any thought of any person ever finding me sexually attractive is humiliating, degrading, and overwhelmingly unbearable. Thinking about the possibility that someone could view me as attractive or as something to have sex with causes me extraordinary mental anguish. And this is just from imagining what it would be like to be viewed sexually. Actually being viewed sexually must be far worse.

Who am I to put any other human through this?

I actually love the idea of people finding me sexually attractive. It strokes my ego.

I've enjoyed being told I'm attractive by other men. I'm pretty straight, but if a guy tells me I have a nice bum I'm not going to complain

[Gauthier]

You can't say that women are inherently harmed by men looking at them without implying the inherent biological inferiority of women.

Absolute bullshit. Maybe women are harmed in this way because they're more self-conscious and therefore more self-aware and intelligent.

No. You're saying women are emotionally sensitive and unstable.

[Ifreann]

You keep getting further and further away from what the paper actually says.

And this statement is probably the most vile and terrible lie I've ever seen in print. There's a huge body of literature on the correlation between self-esteem and feeling that others are attracted to you, regardless of gender.

Any thought of any person ever finding me sexually attractive is humiliating, degrading, and overwhelmingly unbearable. Thinking about the possibility that someone could view me as attractive or as something to have sex with causes me extraordinary mental anguish. And this is just from imagining what it would be like to be viewed sexually. Actually being viewed sexually must be far worse.

Who am I to put any other human through this?

PROTIP: Approximately zero other humans feel like that, so don't worry about it.

[Conserative Morality]

I've enjoyed being told I'm attractive by other men. I'm pretty straight, but if a guy tells me I have a nice bum I'm not going to complain

A compliment is a compliment.

[Gauthier]

I want a society entirely governed by females, where males are not allowed to hold political power at all.

Why shouldn't men be able to hold office in an absolute dictatorship by women?

Because men have penises and that's bad according to 4ST.

[Four-sided Triangles]

I am not your therapist, but I feel like I must say that we're making a break through here.

Here's the thing: most people don't feel this way about sexual attraction. Just because you feel this way has no bearing on what others feel about the subject, and if you had ever thought to ask a woman about it, you'd never have gone on this road.

But instead, you've made a bad generalization about the whole human species based on what one person (you) feels about the subject. I don't think I need to explain to you why this kind of generalization is unsound.

Women are conditioned by society to put up with the embarrassment of being viewed sexually. Men are conditioned to think being viewed sexually is "awesome" because society tells us that we are ready for sex 24/7.

[The Murtunian Tribes]

Absolute bullshit. Maybe women are harmed in this way because they're more self-conscious and therefore more self-aware and intelligent.

No. You're saying women are emotionally sensitive and unstable.

Or both, maybe. But still, not cool.

[Holy Paradise]

OP, the problem is you're confusing sexual attraction, which is natural and healthy, with sexual obsession, which is distorted and unhealthy.

Attraction = good
Obsession = bad

Your problem is you think all attraction is obsession, when it's really not.

Let me ask you this, do you desire friendship with people? Does it bring you joy to make new friends? Isn't that just another kind of attraction? What makes that attraction acceptable, but not sexual attraction.

[Nightkill the Emperor]

I am not your therapist, but I feel like I must say that we're making a break through here.

Here's the thing: most people don't feel this way about sexual attraction. Just because you feel this way has no bearing on what others feel about the subject, and if you had ever thought to ask a woman about it, you'd never have gone on this road.

But instead, you've made a bad generalization about the whole human species based on what one person (you) feels about the subject. I don't think I need to explain to you why this kind of generalization is unsound.

Women are conditioned by society to put up with the embarrassment of being viewed sexually. Men are conditioned to think being viewed sexually is "awesome" because society tells us that we are ready for sex 24/7.

A lot of women will disagree with you here.

[Astrolinium]

I am not your therapist, but I feel like I must say that we're making a break through here.

Here's the thing: most people don't feel this way about sexual attraction. Just because you feel this way has no bearing on what others feel about the subject, and if you had ever thought to ask a woman about it, you'd never have gone on this road.

But instead, you've made a bad generalization about the whole human species based on what one person (you) feels about the subject. I don't think I need to explain to you why this kind of generalization is unsound.

Women are conditioned by society to put up with the embarrassment of being viewed sexually. Men are conditioned to think being viewed sexually is "awesome" because society tells us that we are ready for sex 24/7.

Have you ever actually talked to a woman?

[The Shrailleeni Empire]

http://scienceblogs.com/notrocketscience/2010/01/how_sexual_objectification_silences_women_-_the_male_glance.php

At last, proof of my ideas. No man should ever be attracted to a female body because it has the effect of objectification. Note, however, that females staring at male bodies does not produce the same effect.

I'm vindicated. All sexual attraction is objectification. You can't get out of it.

Well, time to put my two cents in.

No, it isn't. It is proof that body language is an extremely powerful thing which envokes psychological responses. Your ideas are contained in the following five sentences of your post.

This study in no way proves your argument, it merely provides another point from which to argue from. For example, this study does not discuss male-female interaction in which the man does not focus on the woman's body, even if he is attracted to her. It merely shows that studying a woman's objective attractiveness makes them uncomfortable, which is absolutely true.

I've always thought that the main problem with your argument is that you equate objectification as always leading to psychological harm. The fact is that, yes, all sexual attraction is based in objectification, the examinination of qualities desirable in a mate. However, this does not automatically or always mean that objectification is wrong or harmful. It IS harmful, of course, but not ALWAYS. Females staring at male bodies does not produce the same effect because of our patriarchal society, but men do not like being objectified any more than women do. No human does, it is damaging to our psyche.

BUT, the process of sexual objectification does not equal ALL SEX being harmful. The study focusses on objectification, not on the ways which human behavior combats objectification in order to create meaningful relationships. Sexual objectification is kept in check by standards of human behavior which recognize and control objective impulses in order to, in simple terms "treat people as people." For example, my sexual attraction to my SO is based on objectification and sexual desire. However, these desires are kept in check by the variety of responses and behaviors which I and my partner use to promote our mutual humanization, in order to form a more cohesive relationship.

In other words, attraction is objectification. Relationships are humanizing. Sexual relationships humanize objective sexual responses.

[Unchecked Expansion]

Women are conditioned by society to put up with the embarrassment of being viewed sexually. Men are conditioned to think being viewed sexually is "awesome" because society tells us that we are ready for sex 24/7.

The answer to this is not to make sexuality more taboo. That would only increase the awkwardness.

[The Murtunian Tribes]

I am not your therapist, but I feel like I must say that we're making a break through here.

Here's the thing: most people don't feel this way about sexual attraction. Just because you feel this way has no bearing on what others feel about the subject, and if you had ever thought to ask a woman about it, you'd never have gone on this road.

But instead, you've made a bad generalization about the whole human species based on what one person (you) feels about the subject. I don't think I need to explain to you why this kind of generalization is unsound.

Women are conditioned by society to put up with the embarrassment of being viewed sexually. Men are conditioned to think being viewed sexually is "awesome" because society tells us that we are ready for sex 24/7.

Uhhh...no. That's for stupid people and advertisers. Most rational people don't behave like that.

[Four-sided Triangles]

I've enjoyed being told I'm attractive by other men. I'm pretty straight, but if a guy tells me I have a nice bum I'm not going to complain

A compliment is a compliment.

ITT: Sexual harassment is a compliment.

[Holy Paradise]

http://scienceblogs.com/notrocketscience/2010/01/how_sexual_objectification_silences_women_-_the_male_glance.php

At last, proof of my ideas. No man should ever be attracted to a female body because it has the effect of objectification. Note, however, that females staring at male bodies does not produce the same effect.

I'm vindicated. All sexual attraction is objectification. You can't get out of it.

Well, time to put my two cents in.

No, it isn't. It is proof that body language is an extremely powerful thing which envokes psychological responses. Your ideas are contained in the following five sentences of your post.

This study in no way proves your argument, it merely provides another point from which to argue from. For example, this study does not discuss male-female interaction in which the man does not focus on the woman's body, even if he is attracted to her. It merely shows that studying a woman's objective attractiveness makes them uncomfortable, which is absolutely true.

I've always thought that the main problem with your argument is that you equate objectification as always leading to psychological harm. The fact is that, yes, all sexual attraction is based in objectification, the examinination of qualities desirable in a mate. However, this does not automatically or always mean that objectification is wrong or harmful. It IS harmful, of course, but not ALWAYS. Females staring at male bodies does not produce the same effect because of our patriarchal society, but men do not like being objectified any more than women do. No human does, it is damaging to our psyche.

BUT, the process of sexual objectification does not equal ALL SEX being harmful. The study focusses on objectification, not on the ways which human behavior combats objectification in order to create meaningful relationships. Sexual objectification is kept in check by standards of human behavior which recognize and control objective impulses in order to, in simple terms "treat people as people." For example, my sexual attraction to my SO is based on objectification and sexual desire. However, these desires are kept in check by the variety of responses and behaviors which I and my partner use to promote our mutual humanization, in order to form a more cohesive relationship.

In other words, attraction is objectification. Relationships are humanizing. Sexual relationships humanize objective sexual responses.

Boom, psychologized.

[Hydesland]

A lot of women will disagree with you here.

Apart from feminists, who generally regard all behavioural differences between sexes as conditioned by society.

[The Merchant Republics]

The conclusion of that article of research is absurd and doesn't even seem to match their own research.

Women talk less if the camera is pointed at their bodies, therefore women are conforming to male fantasies of having a silent block of flesh to put their penis inside. Aside from that being utter bollocks assumption that men are objectifying, the actual conclusion at least as I drew from it, and as it would appear if a majority of women we're uncomfortable with the camera pointed at their body, was that women who feel like they're being judged like a piece of meat talk less, because they're uncomfortable with being judged like a piece of meat.

Men don't have the same response because societal norms make us believe that women:
A) Care more about personalities, leading us to talk more.
B) Don't ogle at everything that moves. So ogling is something of a particular compliment, rather than a sign of piggishness.

Where as with women the societal belief is that when men are looking at their bodies they aren't going to care about what's coming out of their mouth, and as the statistics indicate it makes them uncomfortable, therefore they talk less. Not because they think silence makes them sexy, because it's really uncomfortable to talk to a random person you think is only interested in you for your body.

[Conserative Morality]

ITT: Sexual harassment is a compliment.

Your hypocrisy is astounding.

[AiliailiA]

More evidence that the study of physics tends to unhinge the mind.

[Four-sided Triangles]

Let me ask you this, do you desire friendship with people? Does it bring you joy to make new friends? Isn't that just another kind of attraction? What makes that attraction acceptable, but not sexual attraction.

No, I don't let people get to close to me. I don't like having friends.

[The Floridian Coast]

A compliment is a compliment.

ITT: Sexual harassment is a compliment.

Didn't you admit to being a utilitarian in another thread? As a utilitarian, you should know, an action is nothing, only the results of an action give it meaning. If a woman is content to be attracted to then she is clearly not harassed. She is only harassed when her own personal boundaries have been violated.