More Falklands Trouble

[Risottia]

how would they get their soldiers to the Falklands in the event of a war? An air drop of them all is pure fantasy

Also, because of this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAF_Mount_Pleasant
Pitting 10 C-130s against 4 Eurofighters? A bit unfair - on the suicide side of unfairness for the crews of the Hercules.

[Risottia]

4.Of course, Brazil pulling on the invasion hat would also piss off ANOTHER world power which shares a land border with Brazil, aka France. Another country with significant power projection capability and a nuclear arsenal. And veto power at the SC, by the way. It would also piss off all ESA member countries - because, you know, Kourou - and Russia - again, because of the Soyuz launch pad at Kourou.

more like the soyuz non-launch pad.

Update:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ensemble_d ... ent_Soyouz
The first launch to use the complex occurred on 21 October 2011, when a Soyuz-STB launched the first two Galileo IOV-1 & IOV-2 spacecraft.[2]

[The UK in Exile]

more like the soyuz non-launch pad.

Update:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ensemble_d ... ent_Soyouz
The first launch to use the complex occurred on 21 October 2011, when a Soyuz-STB launched the first two Galileo IOV-1 & IOV-2 spacecraft.[2]

was thinking more this

[Risottia]

Update:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ensemble_d ... ent_Soyouz
The first launch to use the complex occurred on 21 October 2011, when a Soyuz-STB launched the first two Galileo IOV-1 & IOV-2 spacecraft.[2]

was thinking more this

Maybe that's exactly why the Russians enjoy Kourou. Better lift capacity as it's closer to the Equator.
And anyway, take the Soyuz records, it's still the most reliable mid-weight launch system around.

[San Remo di Tarento]

Nobody's shooting yet. I'd prefer if they didn't start.

The South American nations have simply stated they won't let Falklands-flag ships dock at their ports. That is not a Causus Belli.

One could argue this is a lead-up to an attack, but the appropriate response in this case in my opinion would be to fortify, not to pre-emptively attack.

This is Mercosur, where sanity and diplomacy have taken a seat and replaced with "anti-imperialist" dick-waving. Argentina wouldn't go at it alone. This means they have to look for allies. So far, they have Uruguay (who started this shit in the first place) and Brazil. And even then, I wouldn't think Brazil would become embroiled in a foreign conflict which doesn't affect them nor has any real benefits for them. So it's just Uruguay and Argentina.

The mercosur isn´t a military alliance... Brasil won´t fight with us because we won´t send troops.

[San Remo di Tarento]

Are the Argentines for real? I mean, I could understand them making a claim if the people in the islands wanted to be part of Argentina, or even making a claim (albeit, a far flimsier one) if the people of the Falklands wanted independence, but the people there WANT to be part of the British's overseas territories. I can understand butt-hurt, but this is just ridiculous.

The problem is that we´re not interested in the british people there, we´re interested in the islands and the military bases that britain has there, IN OUR MARITIME TERRITORY.

[Salandriagado]

Are the Argentines for real? I mean, I could understand them making a claim if the people in the islands wanted to be part of Argentina, or even making a claim (albeit, a far flimsier one) if the people of the Falklands wanted independence, but the people there WANT to be part of the British's overseas territories. I can understand butt-hurt, but this is just ridiculous.

The problem is that we´re not interested in the british people there, we´re interested in the islands and the military bases that britain has there, IN OUR MARITIME TERRITORY.

But it isn't, though. It's our maritime territory, by rights of being closest to our land territory. Your territory ends several hundred miles away.

[Risottia]

The problem is that we´re not interested in the british people there, we´re interested in the islands and the military bases that britain has there, IN OUR MARITIME TERRITORY.

You need to learn something about "maritime territory".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_waters
Territorial waters are within 12 nautical miles from the coast baseline. The Falklands are 200 nm off the South American coast.

[Rio Cana]

The others are outsiders looking for there fortune. Which means if Argentina offered them One millon pounds most would take the money and go back home.

Perfect. Let's have Argentina fork over about 1,500 million pounds (Kelpers are about 3000). I wonder where Argentina is going to find that money in their coffers, but let's assume they have that much. What is left is 1500 Falklands natives who have all the right to self-determination and to live where they were born.
So, same situation as before, but Argentina with another debt crisis coming...

And in the posts you see many saying the UK. govt. supports the will of the Falklanders. That is a cop out. Just look at what happened to the Chago islanders,

Chago =/= Falklands.

Do you have anything meaningful on the thread's topic?

Argentina can lease it to the Chinese. They have deep pockets.

Why is it when the Chago islands are mentioned its eithier silence or someone says you are off topic.

And what does Chago have to do with the Falklands. It is a clear example of the UK. govt. talking out of both sides of there mouth. It also is a lesson in that anything they say should be "taken with a pinch of salt". Which means they have a major credibility issue.

[Kouralia]

Perfect. Let's have Argentina fork over about 1,500 million pounds (Kelpers are about 3000). I wonder where Argentina is going to find that money in their coffers, but let's assume they have that much. What is left is 1500 Falklands natives who have all the right to self-determination and to live where they were born.
So, same situation as before, but Argentina with another debt crisis coming...

Argentina can lease it to the Chinese. They have deep pockets.

Except they can't: The British have gone, but those islanders who remain still want to be 'British', and the right to self-determination means you can't just go 'Right, let's take it over and give it to the Chinese.'

[The Corparation]

Are the Argentines for real? I mean, I could understand them making a claim if the people in the islands wanted to be part of Argentina, or even making a claim (albeit, a far flimsier one) if the people of the Falklands wanted independence, but the people there WANT to be part of the British's overseas territories. I can understand butt-hurt, but this is just ridiculous.

The problem is that we´re not interested in the british people there, we´re interested in the islands and the military bases that britain has there, IN OUR MARITIME TERRITORY.

Except for that fact that thier prescens on the island means:
1)ITs NOT your maritime territory.
and as for the military base being there that might have something to do with a certain unprovoked attack against the islands a while back. If argentina doesn't want a military base there (Which isn't even much of a base) they shouldn't have attacked it.

[Rio Cana]

Someone mention the British Commonwealth getting involved in the Malvinas/Falkland problem. You do know the vast majority of the British Commonwealth nations in the Americas voted to support Argentina.

And which country would this be?

Again, some posters commenting on Gibraltar. Gibraltar was given to the UK. via treaty. Centuries later Spain affirmed that treaty. It was during Francos time that they said that treaty was forced on Spain. Nevertheless, the Spanish signed it. So I do not understand why they even wasted time with those referendums since the UK. does not have to give it back.

If the Spanish want to have Gibraltar back, then they should return Ceuta to the Moroccans. Fair's fair.

Watch this really informant video by Australian film maker John Pilge. Part 1 includes a segment which explains what happened to the Chago islanders pets.

Part 1 (9 min.) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLskCGCr ... re=related

Part 2 (9 min.) -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=pB9 ... =endscreen

Part 3 (10 min.) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_-Z3rHX ... re=related

Part 4 ( 12 min.) -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=en ... wm16A&NR=1

I recognise the name. John Pilger is a strong critic of Western nation's foreign policy and has expressed support for the likes of Hugo Chavez. He's an arrogant communist. I've seen his work and quite frankly, I don't blame the NZ journalist who interviewed him once for throwing his book at an image of him.

If I had my way, there'd be a cricket bat shoved right in the middle of his smug Australian mug.

The British Commonwealth nations in the Americas who voted to support Argentina were Antigua and Barbuda, Bahamas, Barbados, Belize, Dominica, Grenada, Guyana, Jamaica, Saint Kits and Nevis, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines and Trinidad and Tobago.

Found the comunique they all agreed to in CELAC (Community of Latin American and Caribbean States minus the US and Canada).

http://www.sela.org/attach/258/default/ ... slands.pdf



Morocco did not even exist back then. Morocco was founded March 2, 1956. Kingdom of Castile which created Spain claimed it in 1291. City of Melilla became part of the Kingdom of Spain in 1556. Should point out that at one point when the Iberian peninsula was conquered by the Arabs that Ceuta and Melilla were ruled from the Iberian peninsula by the Arabs.

The issue is not John Pilger or Chavez. Both live very comfortable. The issue is the Chago islanders. What was done to them was very despicable. The funny thing is the islanders were not against the base. They welcomed the base since they thought they would be given employment. Instead they had there pets wiped out and they themselves illegally forced out.

[Cromarty]

The Chago Islands are irrelevant to this thread.

[Rio Cana]

^^Of course they are.

But the world knows better.

[Kouralia]

^^Of course they are.

But the world knows better.

Oh no! One of those people who can't, dear to god, shut up about Iraq = Oil, Afghanistan = Imperialism take over or Pakistan = Declaration of war...

[Grave_n_idle]

Are the Argentines for real? I mean, I could understand them making a claim if the people in the islands wanted to be part of Argentina, or even making a claim (albeit, a far flimsier one) if the people of the Falklands wanted independence, but the people there WANT to be part of the British's overseas territories. I can understand butt-hurt, but this is just ridiculous.

The problem is that we´re not interested in the british people there, we´re interested in the islands and the military bases that britain has there, IN OUR MARITIME TERRITORY.

It's a dangerous precedent to set - this whole 'we don't care about the people, we just want that bit of land' platform.

[Lambrinisia]

David Cameron has said that the Islanders can decide. But until then, there will be no discussion on the sovereignty of the Falklands.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16320959

"We will never negotiate on the sovereignty of the Falkland Islands unless you, the Falkland Islanders, so wish. No democracy could ever do otherwise."

So until the Falklanders want to be Argies, the Argies can get sodomised by reindeers. Happy Christmas to them.

[Kouralia]

David Cameron has said that the Islanders can decide. But until then, there will be no discussion on the sovereignty of the Falklands.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16320959

"We will never negotiate on the sovereignty of the Falkland Islands unless you, the Falkland Islanders, so wish. No democracy could ever do otherwise."

So until the Falklanders want to be Argies, the Argies can get sodomised by reindeers. Happy Christmas to them.

...and a merry new year!

[Rio Cana]

^^Of course they are.

But the world knows better.

Oh no! One of those people who can't, dear to god, shut up about Iraq = Oil, Afghanistan = Imperialism take over or Pakistan = Declaration of war...

What a rude person.

Watch this since you really need it - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0i76sT_qkQg

And taking my cue from what someone posted above, those nations you just mentioned are irrelevant to this thread.

[Chrobalta]

Am I detecting the global balance of power shifting away from Britain? Yes I think I am.

[Kouralia]

Oh no! One of those people who can't, dear to god, shut up about Iraq = Oil, Afghanistan = Imperialism take over or Pakistan = Declaration of war...

What a rude person.

Watch this since you really need it - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0i76sT_qkQg

And taking my cue from what someone posted above, those nations you just mentioned are irrelevant to this thread.

That's good, you say your argument was irrelevent?

[Costa Fiero]

http://money.aol.co.uk/2011/12/26/brazil-deposes-uk-as-worlds-no-6-economy/

The Uk is not even a regional power and Brasil will in a few years become a world power, it is better for the UK to stop act as if has some influence on world politics.The times when UK was a signifant factor in the world are gone, vorbei, schluss Maybe Brasil and Argentina have no fleet but nevettheless they have more soldiers than the UK and their economies grows rapidly and in few years brasil will be one of few leading nations.

The UK is still a world power. Brazil isn't. Don't forget, the British can still call on the Commonwealth to help if need be. And the Commonwealth has a ton more troops, aircraft and surface vessels than Brazil. And, of course, the British have the ear of countries such as the United States.

Brazil's economy is growing, but that's because it hasn't been affected by the financial crisis as much as Britain has. Economic power =/= military power. And even then, you fail to take into account that Brazil is still 20 years behind development wise than Britain.

Besides, as I said earlier, it's irrelevant in a discussion about Uruguay and Argentina being victims of something.

[Grave_n_idle]

Am I detecting the global balance of power shifting away from Britain? Yes I think I am.

Have you been on... well, the world, recently?

[Chrobalta]

Am I detecting the global balance of power shifting away from Britain? Yes I think I am.

Have you been on... well, the world, recently?

Of course. Unless the aliens got me and I didn't know about it.

[Grave_n_idle]

Have you been on... well, the world, recently?

Of course. Unless the aliens got me and I didn't know about it.

I'm not ruling out the alien theory, if you honestly suspect "the balance of power is shifting away from Britain".