More Falklands Trouble

[Vellosia]

The people of Gibraltar want to be british either, and britain share its souverenitiy with spain nevertheless

Because Spain didn't try to invade Gib in the 80's?

Because Spain didn't reject our offer of legally binding arbitration over Gib 4 times?

As far as I'm aware, the people of Gibraltar rejected and negotiation with Spain a couple of years ago in referendum, voting something like 96% in favour of no negotiation.

[Briutannia]

Please, cut the ideological crap. There are plenty of British socialists on this forum who want the Falklands to stay British.

The conservative elements of the old working class left, indeed. The metropolitian left? as George Orwell remarked, they loathe this country.

Its only ever socialists you seen suggesting we surrender the Falklands and denounce the Empire.

[Great Agram]

The people of Gibraltar want to be british either, and britain share its souverenitiy with spain nevertheless

The historical claims/history of the island are a little bit mor ecomplicated than the Falklands. Thats why.

my opinion is that the Uk is behaving very undemocratic because it causes problems. It should just give the Falklands to Argentina and amen. Argentina is on other hand a dictatorship and itis expected from it to behal so.

[Risottia]

It shouldn't belong to the UK. Its merely a hang over from your imperialist past

And the British imperialism should give way to the PRESENT imperialism of Argentina which is based upon the imperialist past of Spain.
Uhhh...

and if you really cared about the Falkland Islanders you would make them an independent state.

They are. That's why EU law isn't applicable there, while in GB is.

And on your second point I would say it would be pretty easy to get them to support a British action considering they're all British!

So, I assume you propose to either:
a) ignore blatantly the will of the native people (the Kelpers were born there) in the name of a supposed right of some people who weren't born there;
b) do a bit of ethnical cleansing and substitute the Kelpers with Argentinians.

[Great Agram]

The people of Gibraltar want to be british either, and britain share its souverenitiy with spain nevertheless

Because Spain didn't try to invade Gib in the 80's?

Because Spain didn't reject our offer of legally binding arbitration over Gib 4 times?

That was the past, why should not try to think on the future?

Furthermore, it wasnt problem to give up a colonial empire.

[Salandriagado]

First of all, I'm Australian, not Argentine.

We can easily run our own affairs, thank you very much.

Oh, is that so? Well, excuse me.

All of that translates as "doing a fuck lot better than most, and indeed better than the US", politically. We don't have any parties trying to tank our economy to win ideological points.

We're not the ones fighting over the sandbox, its you who are constantly desperate to get the corner of the sandbox. If its so insignificant, why do you want it so much?

And why on earth would we avoid drilling for valuable oil because some people who've never owned the islands and who we destroyed in a war 30 years ago might get offended?

Tell me, what would likely be the first thing Argentina would do when they got control of the Falkland Islands? You can't drill for oil because that would offend Britain, and since its just the corner of the sandbox, you won't get anything else from it...

Although I am not Argentine, I can see this as being a principle matter. As I stated earlier this move is one by Mercosur, not Argentina. It is a symbolic move against the waning dominance of the West over places like South America and serves to illustrate that they do not intend to allow themselves to be pushed around by former 'great' colonial, imperialistic powers. These nations, most particularly Brasil, are the major powers of the future and this is an example of them becoming aware of this.

You should avoid drilling for oil because obviously the image of grubby Western fingers soaking up the natural resources of what is believed by the Mercosur nations as belonging to South Americans is bound to cause a diplomatic rift. And let's be honest, the last the UK needs is more troubles on their hands, especially those dealing with external matters.

I just wish that the ego of the UK could take a back seat once in a while when dealing with issues regarding its overseas 'possessions'. The British belong in Britain, not off the coast of Argentina and I can guarantee you if the Argentines made claim to the Shetland Islands and bolstered it with military forces, air bases and naval vessels you would act in exactly the same way as they are now.

Time to let go.

(As for your "but they wanna be British" argument I believe it shares similarities with the Quebecois "we wanna be French" jazz.)

The people are British by every possible measure. The people want to be British. The people have voted several times to remain British over going to Argentina or becoming independent. By what right do you deny their right to do this and force them into domination by a foreign power, which Argentina undoubtedly is? The Quebecois don't want to be French, they want to be independent (well, some of them do, they've never been able to get enough support to pass a vote on it.

[Farnhamia]

The historical claims/history of the island are a little bit mor ecomplicated than the Falklands. Thats why.

my opinion is that the Uk is behaving very undemocratic because it causes problems. It should just give the Falklands to Argentina and amen. Argentina is on other hand a dictatorship and itis expected from it to behal so.

The people who live there do not want to be part of Argentina. The history of the islands is very complicated, as you'll see here. They were claimed and abandoned several times. So, no, Britain is not just going to give them to Argentina. And Argentina is not a dictatorship any longer, not since the 1980s, I believe.

[Risottia]

The people of Gibraltar want to be british either, and britain share its souverenitiy with spain nevertheless

The historical claims/history of the island are a little bit mor ecomplicated than the Falklands. Thats why.

Afaik, Spain has no sovereignity shares on Gibraltar, because the Gibraltarians rejected that proposal.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibraltar_ ... ndum,_2002

[Risen Britannia]

remember a while back that ONE man who came from Falklands, who decided to become a Argentine national. And remember how Argentina celebrated because of this ONEman... out of a population of 3,140 who are quite happy remaining British.

Also does anyone wonder why we only hear complaints from Argentina about our colonies? I wonder if its their government trying to distract the population again

[Grave_n_idle]

my opinion is that the Uk is behaving very undemocratic because it causes problems.

How can doing the will of the people be undemocratic.

Do you know what 'democratic' means?

[Risottia]

Obviously its still to soon since the empire's collapse to talk about your ridiculous overseas 'possessions'.

And, of course, the Falklands and South Georgia wouldn't be considered "overseas" if they were in the hands of the Argentinians.

A curious fact: 460 km of high sea separate the Falklands from South American mainland.

[Grave_n_idle]

my opinion is that the Uk is behaving very undemocratic because it causes problems. It should just give the Falklands to Argentina and amen. Argentina is on other hand a dictatorship and itis expected from it to behal so.

The people who live there do not want to be part of Argentina. The history of the islands is very complicated, as you'll see here. They were claimed and abandoned several times. So, no, Britain is not just going to give them to Argentina. And Argentina is not a dictatorship any longer, not since the 1980s, I believe.

I seem to recall 1983 marked the first democratic elections since 1973, in the wake of the Falkland's War.

[Farnhamia]

The people who live there do not want to be part of Argentina. The history of the islands is very complicated, as you'll see here. They were claimed and abandoned several times. So, no, Britain is not just going to give them to Argentina. And Argentina is not a dictatorship any longer, not since the 1980s, I believe.

I seem to recall 1983 marked the first democratic elections since 1973, in the wake of the Falkland's War.

Indeed. The Wiki article on Argentina says that the 1989 election was the first peaceful transfer of power between parties since 1916.

[Risottia]

I seem to recall 1983 marked the first democratic elections since 1973, in the wake of the Falkland's War.

Indeed. The Wiki article on Argentina says that the 1989 election was the first peaceful transfer of power between parties since 1916.

Maybe it's a good idea to have Argentina try to invade the Falklands again. It would lead to more democracy in Argentina itself and the Falklands staying British, if the past trend is confirmed.

[Fnordgasm 5]

Falklanders don't want to be Argentinian. They want to be British. Overwhelmingly, in fact.

The people of Gibraltar want to be British either, and Britain share its sovereignty with Spain nevertheless

Britain and Spain do not share sovereignty of Gibraltar. Talks were held between the Spanish and British governments but in response the people of Gibraltar held a referendum. They rejected joint sovereignty.

[Great Agram]

my opinion is that the Uk is behaving very undemocratic because it causes problems.

How can doing the will of the people be undemocratic.

Do you know what 'democratic' means?

yes, i know

[Great Agram]

The people of Gibraltar want to be British either, and Britain share its sovereignty with Spain nevertheless

Britain and Spain do not share sovereignty of Gibraltar. Talks were held between the Spanish and British governments but in response the people of Gibraltar held a referendum. They rejected joint sovereignty.

yes, my faulth, but it still dont change the fact that there were negotiations.

[Risottia]

How can doing the will of the people be undemocratic.

Do you know what 'democratic' means?

yes, i know

It looks like you're refusing to apply your knowledge, then.

[Salandriagado]

Britain and Spain do not share sovereignty of Gibraltar. Talks were held between the Spanish and British governments but in response the people of Gibraltar held a referendum. They rejected joint sovereignty.

yes, my faulth, but it still dont change the fact that there were negotiations.

We tried negotiating with the Argentinians. Four times, actually. Then they invaded.

[Great Agram]

my opinion is that the Uk is behaving very undemocratic because it causes problems. It should just give the Falklands to Argentina and amen. Argentina is on other hand a dictatorship and itis expected from it to behal so.

The people who live there do not want to be part of Argentina. The history of the islands is very complicated, as you'll see here. They were claimed and abandoned several times. So, no, Britain is not just going to give them to Argentina. And Argentina is not a dictatorship any longer, not since the 1980s, I believe.

well, it is not a dictatorship, rather corrupt. Ok, there were claims before Argentina ever existed.

[Risottia]

yes, my faulth, but it still dont change the fact that there were negotiations.

We tried negotiating with the Argentinians. Four times, actually. Then they invaded.

Looks like Argentina was trying to apply the same concept of "democracy in foreign affairs" that other country in the Americas is famous for...

[Great Agram]

yes, my faulth, but it still dont change the fact that there were negotiations.

We tried negotiating with the Argentinians. Four times, actually. Then they invaded.

Ok, but if i am correct that was the Millitary Junta. maybe today they are more reasonble. i dont want to be misunderstood. I think everything is better than war.

[Great Agram]

Ok, why did britain gace up their colonial empire? it was a bad choice.

[Salandriagado]

We tried negotiating with the Argentinians. Four times, actually. Then they invaded.

Ok, but if i am correct that was the Millitary Junta. maybe today they are more reasonble. i dont want to be misunderstood. I think everything is better than war.

The current president is very difficult to describe without getting rude. Spends rather a lot of time going on about "British imperialism" and threatening to invade.

Ok, why did britain gace up their colonial empire? it was a bad choice.

Essentially, we weren't able to hold it any more after the first world war, the same as the rest of Europe. I agree, though, that the way the UK pulled out of its colonies was very badly managed.

[Farnhamia]

Ok, why did britain gace up their colonial empire? it was a bad choice.

They were being democratic.