More Falklands Trouble

[Cromarty]

Hot damn! That's a hell-uva lotta prescadent! Let's hand it over right now. [/sarcasm]



Erm, so basically you're saying:

- We should give them to Argentina as their claim is stronger due to their temp. colony ther.
- The argument of self-determination is not applicable in this situation because of something that happened around 200 years ago may cloud the judgement of people today.

It shouldn't belong to the UK. Its merely a hang over from your imperialist past and if you really cared about the Falkland Islanders you would make them an independent state. And on your second point I would say it would be pretty easy to get them to support a British action considering they're all British!

And an independent Falklands will last 5 minutes before Argentina invaded.

The facts are this:
1. The current occupants of the Falkland Islanders want to be British, not Argentina.
2. Britain 4 times before the war offered to go to legally binding International Arbitration, not Argentina.
3. Britain defended it's territory in the early 80s from foreign aggression, not Argentina, who were the aggressors.
4. The British claim to the islands is the strongest, not Argentina's which is based around 'oh but they're really close to us'.
5. The only other legitimate claim would be of the original inhabitants of the islands, who were not Argentinian.

[Great Nepal]

It shouldn't belong to the UK. Its merely a hang over from your imperialist past and if you really cared about the Falkland Islanders you would make them an independent state. And on your second point I would say it would be pretty easy to get them to support a British action considering they're all British!

Argentina should belong to Argentina. Its merely a hang over from armed mob and if you really cared about Argentina, you would make them Spanish Colony. They may disagree, but that is obvious cos they are all Argentine!

[Kouralia]

And an independent Falklands will last 5 minutes before Argentina invaded.

And it also lacks major industry or enough of an economy to survive on its own...

Just like those 'Independant Cornwall' idiots.

[New Bazlantis]

Obviously its still to soon since the empire's collapse to talk about your ridiculous overseas 'possessions'.

[Great Nepal]

Obviously its still to soon since the empire's collapse to talk about your ridiculous overseas 'possessions'.

An empire is a state with politico-military dominion of populations who are culturally and ethnically distinct from the imperial (ruling) ethnic group and its culture — unlike a federation, an extensive state voluntarily composed of autonomous states and peoples.
When people culturally and ethnically identify themselves as British; how exactly is this a relationship of an empire?

[Kulverint]

British attitude over the Falklands is disgusting. You're like children fighting over your corner of the sandbox. The empire is gone, give it up, man. You can barely run your own affairs let alone those of territories half a world away.

We can easily run our own affairs, thank you very much.

We're not the ones fighting over the sandbox, its you who are constantly desperate to get the corner of the sandbox. If its so insignificant, why do you want it so much?

And why on earth would we avoid drilling for valuable oil because some people who've never owned the islands and who we destroyed in a war 30 years ago might get offended?

Tell me, what would likely be the first thing Argentina would do when they got control of the Falkland Islands? You can't drill for oil because that would offend Britain, and since its just the corner of the sandbox, you won't get anything else from it...

[Gauntleted Fist]

It shouldn't belong to the UK. Its merely a hang over from your imperialist past and if you really cared about the Falkland Islanders you would make them an independent state.

What part of "The Falklanders want to remain British" do you not get?

And on your second point I would say it would be pretty easy to get them to support a British action considering they're all British!

What the fuck. So Britain should give away British citizens to another country because of...something incoherent that you haven't quite stated yet?

[Grave_n_idle]

That being said however I think that it is very (very) unlikely anything military will come to this ...

Indeed. It's taken 30 years for Argentina to recover from the last time they tried to encroach on British territory.

[New Bazlantis]

First of all, I'm Australian, not Argentine.

British attitude over the Falklands is disgusting. You're like children fighting over your corner of the sandbox. The empire is gone, give it up, man. You can barely run your own affairs let alone those of territories half a world away.

We can easily run our own affairs, thank you very much.

Oh, is that so? Well, excuse me.

We're not the ones fighting over the sandbox, its you who are constantly desperate to get the corner of the sandbox. If its so insignificant, why do you want it so much?

And why on earth would we avoid drilling for valuable oil because some people who've never owned the islands and who we destroyed in a war 30 years ago might get offended?

Tell me, what would likely be the first thing Argentina would do when they got control of the Falkland Islands? You can't drill for oil because that would offend Britain, and since its just the corner of the sandbox, you won't get anything else from it...

Although I am not Argentine, I can see this as being a principle matter. As I stated earlier this move is one by Mercosur, not Argentina. It is a symbolic move against the waning dominance of the West over places like South America and serves to illustrate that they do not intend to allow themselves to be pushed around by former 'great' colonial, imperialistic powers. These nations, most particularly Brasil, are the major powers of the future and this is an example of them becoming aware of this.

You should avoid drilling for oil because obviously the image of grubby Western fingers soaking up the natural resources of what is believed by the Mercosur nations as belonging to South Americans is bound to cause a diplomatic rift. And let's be honest, the last the UK needs is more troubles on their hands, especially those dealing with external matters.

I just wish that the ego of the UK could take a back seat once in a while when dealing with issues regarding its overseas 'possessions'. The British belong in Britain, not off the coast of Argentina and I can guarantee you if the Argentines made claim to the Shetland Islands and bolstered it with military forces, air bases and naval vessels you would act in exactly the same way as they are now.

Time to let go.

(As for your "but they wanna be British" argument I believe it shares similarities with the Quebecois "we wanna be French" jazz.)

[Grave_n_idle]

It shouldn't belong to the UK. Its merely a hang over from your imperialist past and if you really cared about the Falkland Islanders you would make them an independent state. And on your second point I would say it would be pretty easy to get them to support a British action considering they're all British!

Do you realise your second point contradicts your first?

[New Bazlantis]

That being said however I think that it is very (very) unlikely anything military will come to this ...

Indeed. It's taken 30 years for Argentina to recover from the last time they tried to encroach on British territory.

Did you get a little nationalist ego boost when you wrote that?

[Grave_n_idle]

I just wish that the ego of the UK could take a back seat once in a while when dealing with issues regarding its overseas 'possessions'.

Have you looked at a map of the Empire recently?

[Cromarty]

Although I am not Argentine, I can see this as being a principle matter. As I stated earlier this move is one by Mercosur, not Argentina. It is a symbolic move against the waning dominance of the West over places like South America and serves to illustrate that they do not intend to allow themselves to be pushed around by former 'great' colonial, imperialistic powers. These nations, most particularly Brasil, are the major powers of the future and this is an example of them becoming aware of this.

You should avoid drilling for oil because obviously the image of grubby Western fingers soaking up the natural resources of what is believed by the Mercosur nations as belonging to South Americans is bound to cause a diplomatic rift. And let's be honest, the last the UK needs is more troubles on their hands, especially those dealing with external matters.

We should avoid using our resources to avoid pissing off a nation that's trying it's hardest to steal our territory from us?

I just wish that the ego of the UK could take a back seat once in a while when dealing with issues regarding its overseas 'possessions'. The British belong in Britain, not off the coast of Argentina and I can guarantee you if the Argentines made claim to the Shetland Islands and bolstered it with military forces, air bases and naval vessels you would act in exactly the same way as they are now.

because clearly an argentine invasion of british sovereign territory is exactly the same as the Falklands which have been ours for over 100 years and are populated by people who want to remain in Union with us.

Time to let go.

And fuck self determination!

(As for your "but they wanna be British" argument I believe it shares similarities with the Quebecois "we wanna be French" jazz.)

Opinion polls indicate continued union within Canada has more support than union with France.

[Grave_n_idle]

Indeed. It's taken 30 years for Argentina to recover from the last time they tried to encroach on British territory.

Did you get a little nationalist ego boost when you wrote that?

No. Read my post history, I'm about the least nationalist person you're likely to meet.

I'm talking about the casualties, the loss of 60 aircraft which couldn't be replaced after the war due to the financial hardship and political turmoil in Argentina, the knock-on effects like the weakening of the image of the military in Argentina, etc.

The last thing Argentina wants now is a war... but the Tories would love one, especially this one.

[The Bazlantian Diplomatic Authority]

I just wish that the ego of the UK could take a back seat once in a while when dealing with issues regarding its overseas 'possessions'.

Have you looked at a map of the Empire recently?

Yep, not much left to it these days, which explains why your hanging on tooth and nail with all your grand stubbornness to this one.

[Briutannia]

New Bazlantis is a typical socialist, dripping wet with self-hatred of the western world.

[Grave_n_idle]

Have you looked at a map of the Empire recently?

Yep, not much left to it these days...

Indeed. If the UK took much more of a back seat, they'd be riding in someone else's car.

[Great Agram]

I dont get why dont the british give the Falkladns to Argentina if they were able to negotiate with Spain about gibraltar.

[Horsefish]

I just wish that the ego of the UK could take a back seat once in a while when dealing with issues regarding its overseas 'possessions'. The British belong in Britain, not off the coast of Argentina and I can guarantee you if the Argentines made claim to the Shetland Islands and bolstered it with military forces, air bases and naval vessels you would act in exactly the same way as they are now.

See, this would be the same apart from a few key diffrences-Argentinia doesn't have any claims over the Shetlands, the residents of the Shetlands want to be Scottish/British and there has been a permenant British setlement there for quite a lon time. You make it sound like Britian swooped in and kicked out the argies from the Falklands. We didn't, IIRC Britian has the longest standing continous claim to the islands, Argintina has a fuzzy historic claim at best.

Really, you should be defending the Falkland isles from Argentinian imperialism.

Did you get a little nationalist ego boost when you wrote that?

I'm pretty sure GnI is American.

[New Conglomerate]

I dont get why dont the british give the Falkladns to Argentina if they were able to negotiate with Spain about gibraltar.

Falklanders don't want to be Argentinian. They want to be British. Overwhelmingly, in fact.

[Great Agram]

I dont get why dont the british give the Falkladns to Argentina if they were able to negotiate with Spain about gibraltar.

Falklanders don't want to be Argentinian. They want to be British. Overwhelmingly, in fact.

The people of Gibraltar want to be british either, and britain share its souverenitiy with spain nevertheless

[Briutannia]

I dont get why dont the british give the Falkladns to Argentina if they were able to negotiate with Spain about gibraltar.

Falklanders don't want to be Argentinian. They want to be British. Overwhelmingly, in fact.

Ah but you see THE EMPIRE!! THE IMPERIALISTS!! TAKING THE RESOURCES!! WORKERS OF THE WORLD UNITE!! etc etc.

We'll never get through to these people in their silly little world.

[Horsefish]

Falklanders don't want to be Argentinian. They want to be British. Overwhelmingly, in fact.

The people of Gibraltar want to be british either, and britain share its souverenitiy with spain nevertheless

The historical claims/history of the island are a little bit mor ecomplicated than the Falklands. Thats why.

[Cromarty]

Falklanders don't want to be Argentinian. They want to be British. Overwhelmingly, in fact.

The people of Gibraltar want to be british either, and britain share its souverenitiy with spain nevertheless

Because Spain didn't try to invade Gib in the 80's?

Because Spain didn't reject our offer of legally binding arbitration over Gib 4 times?

[New Conglomerate]

Falklanders don't want to be Argentinian. They want to be British. Overwhelmingly, in fact.

Ah but you see THE EMPIRE!! THE IMPERIALISTS!! TAKING THE RESOURCES!! WORKERS OF THE WORLD UNITE!! etc etc.

We'll never get through to these people in their silly little world.

Please, cut the ideological crap. There are plenty of British socialists on this forum who want the Falklands to stay British.