why abortion is good.

[Birkinghamia]

Let me rephrase: Superior technology is an adaptation we use because we are more intelligent than other species.

"Doing fine without technology" does not relate to this at all. We could do fine without technology as well.

We are intelligent when it comes to using advanced tools. That does not mean we are intelligent in general. There are different types on intelligence. Y U NO READ FOR GODS SAKE?!

Uh? Please try to get rid of all technology, then try to go live. You'd fail miserably.

I was speaking on "general intelligence" go observe sponges, or squirrels, or horses, or anything, and show me proof where we aren't more advanced. Ever wonder why neanderthals went extinct? We overtook them, because we are more intelligent.

So humans don't have the ability to live without technology? I wasn't aware that picking berries off a tree required technology.

[Divair]

So you'd be fine living 20 years on average, with no entertainment, hunting with your hands for food?

I guess that's the point. Those animals who "do fine" would do better if they too had tech.

Animals have technology of a sort. A bird's nest is technology.

Everyone would do better with better tech. That doesn't really prove either side of this argument.
Can we please get back on the topic of abortion now?

[Norstal]

We are intelligent when it comes to using advanced tools. That does not mean we are intelligent in general. There are different types on intelligence. Y U NO READ FOR GODS SAKE?!

Uh? Please try to get rid of all technology, then try to go live. You'd fail miserably.

well then we wouldnt have the ability to make fire D: then we wouldnt be able to eat cooked food which would make us all get diseases OH NO!

Dude, seriously, learn how to read.

Or at least, read carefully.

[AiliailiA]

Good, we don't need another person who can't form a logical argument to save their own skin.

No, I'm just sick of arguing with someone who is deluded, immoral, and outright wrong. Plus you've already lost this argument anyway.

There's really nothing more to say after "end of discussion". Have a look around the other threads and see if there's something that interests you.

[Divair]

We are intelligent when it comes to using advanced tools. That does not mean we are intelligent in general. There are different types on intelligence. Y U NO READ FOR GODS SAKE?!

Uh? Please try to get rid of all technology, then try to go live. You'd fail miserably.

I was speaking on "general intelligence" go observe sponges, or squirrels, or horses, or anything, and show me proof where we aren't more advanced. Ever wonder why neanderthals went extinct? We overtook them, because we are more intelligent.

So humans don't have the ability to live without technology? I wasn't aware that picking berries off a tree required technology.

Again, you're willing to live 20 years, half of them in pain, hunger, or cold, with no entertainment, picking berries for survival?

[Birkinghamia]

Let me rephrase: Superior technology is an adaptation we use because we are more intelligent than other species.

"Doing fine without technology" does not relate to this at all. We could do fine without technology as well.

So you'd be fine living 20 years on average, with no entertainment, hunting with your hands for food?

Let me rephrase: The human race could do fine without technology as well. We did in the beginning. It's inevitable for us to improve on technology - something that doesn't apply to all other species on this planet.

[Divair]

So you'd be fine living 20 years on average, with no entertainment, hunting with your hands for food?

Let me rephrase: The human race could do fine without technology as well. We did in the beginning. It's inevitable for us to improve on technology - something that doesn't apply to all other species on this planet.

And by pure coincidence, humans were the ones that improved technology. This is nice and all, but how does this concern abortion? -.-

[Birkinghamia]

I guess that's the point. Those animals who "do fine" would do better if they too had tech.

Animals have technology of a sort. A bird's nest is technology.

Everyone would do better with better tech. That doesn't really prove either side of this argument.
Can we please get back on the topic of abortion now?

I'm willing to go back to it if everyone else is.

[Birkinghamia]

Let me rephrase: The human race could do fine without technology as well. We did in the beginning. It's inevitable for us to improve on technology - something that doesn't apply to all other species on this planet.

And by pure coincidence, humans were the ones that improved technology. This is nice and all, but how does this concern abortion? -.-

Let's get back to abortion, then.

[Tlaceceyaya]

I was speaking on "general intelligence" go observe sponges, or squirrels, or horses, or anything, and show me proof where we aren't more advanced. Ever wonder why neanderthals went extinct? We overtook them, because we are more intelligent.

So humans don't have the ability to live without technology? I wasn't aware that picking berries off a tree required technology.

Again, you're willing to live 20 years, half of them in pain, hunger, or cold, with no entertainment, picking berries for survival?

Those are simply skills. Fish can breathe underwater. Are they more intelligent than you because they can breathe underwater?

[Divair]

Again, you're willing to live 20 years, half of them in pain, hunger, or cold, with no entertainment, picking berries for survival?

Those are simply skills. Fish can breathe underwater. Are they more intelligent than you because they can breathe underwater?

Define intelligence.
Now can we all stop derailing the thread and get back to talking about abortion?

[AiliailiA]

I guess that's the point. Those animals who "do fine" would do better if they too had tech.

Animals have technology of a sort. A bird's nest is technology.

Everyone would do better with better tech. That doesn't really prove either side of this argument.
Can we please get back on the topic of abortion now?

Not just yet. I'd like to point out the huge increase in life expectancy during the 20th Century was mostly due to a decrease in child mortality. An individual who lives to adulthood isn't going to live much longer now than they would have a century ago. And the point that follows from that is that technology isn't all win: we eat too much, and don't walk around as much as we're evolved to do (thanks technology) ... a nuclear war wouldn't do us a lot of good either.

OK, back to the topic then.

[Mavorpen]

We are intelligent when it comes to using advanced tools. That does not mean we are intelligent in general. There are different types on intelligence. Y U NO READ FOR GODS SAKE?!

Uh? Please try to get rid of all technology, then try to go live. You'd fail miserably.

I was speaking on "general intelligence" go observe sponges, or squirrels, or horses, or anything, and show me proof where we aren't more advanced. Ever wonder why neanderthals went extinct? We overtook them, because we are more intelligent.

So humans don't have the ability to live without technology? I wasn't aware that picking berries off a tree required technology.

Okay, a bee. Did you know a bee can solve complex problems better than a supercomputer? Countless research has shown that bees can find out the most efficient route from point A to point B several times more quickly than a SUPER COMPUTER. Supercomputer>humans. Therefore bees>humans. Get the picture? Animals do things we cannot do, and we do things they cannot do. Intelligence is subjective, PERIOD.

Really? That's why we began farming. That's why we began hunting, of course! Are you delusional? Only a small percentage of the human population would survive if technology disappeared. Why? Because they already know where to find fruit, they have plentiful fruit, and they know which fruit is good and which is bad. Face it, without technology, most of humanity would be fucked. Guess that says a lot about our "intelligence."

[Vazdania]

We are intelligent when it comes to using advanced tools. That does not mean we are intelligent in general. There are different types on intelligence. Y U NO READ FOR GODS SAKE?!

Uh? Please try to get rid of all technology, then try to go live. You'd fail miserably.

I was speaking on "general intelligence" go observe sponges, or squirrels, or horses, or anything, and show me proof where we aren't more advanced. Ever wonder why neanderthals went extinct? We overtook them, because we are more intelligent.

So humans don't have the ability to live without technology? I wasn't aware that picking berries off a tree required technology.

im going to give you the salmon for an example, it has mastered the ability to travel thousands of miles a year, and return to the same spot of its birth on instict alone. no intelligence needed.

The bird, the bird without technlogy can see ultraviolet light, whereas we need an aid

the bad sees through sonar, whereas we need an aid to "see" barely anthing

No animal species have war excluding humans, we have invented machines to kill eachother, are we smart for making machines that kill eachother?

[Divair]

Stop.
Unless one of you brings up a point that somehow ties all of this mess to abortion, just stop.
Can we get back on topic please?

[Mavorpen]

Stop.
Unless one of you brings up a point that somehow ties all of this mess to abortion, just stop.
Can we get back on topic please?

Dude, calm down, we've decided to go back on topic.

[Vazdania]

night everyone

to reaffirm my stance as my last post

Abortion is immoral in my opinion, it does not "take away the mothers rights" it was her choice
Animals are intelligent beings and can far exceed us in intelligence in areas, we have dominion over them though (as stated in the Bible)

Thanks for the great discusion

Telegram me if you wanna be friends !!!:D

[Divair]

Stop.
Unless one of you brings up a point that somehow ties all of this mess to abortion, just stop.
Can we get back on topic please?

Dude, calm down, we've decided to go back on topic.

I only bolded one word to draw attention to the fact some people have detailed the thread

Moving on, someone want to raise a specific topic?

[Mavorpen]

Birkinghamia, you still need to explain why you state that taking any life (like a fetus) is wrong, yet you tried to make excuses for killing other beings that just happen to be non-human.

[Divair]

it does not "take away the mothers rights" it was her choice

1. Rape.
2. Faulty birth control.
3. Pregnancy that ends in death for the mother.

[AiliailiA]

Stop.
Unless one of you brings up a point that somehow ties all of this mess to abortion, just stop.
Can we get back on topic please?

You need to NOT POST in a threadjack to take that superior attitude. Instead you seemed to be insisting that you had some kind of point about how miserable life would be without technology, when actually you just misread someone who was making the same point you were.

Technology is as relevant as language, or sentience, or whatever ... we were trying to define some unique feature of "human beings" which makes us "better" than animals.

I'll say this: neither fetuses nor babies invented or propagated language, nor religion, nor technology. Any line like that we draw to separate fetuses from persons will be in danger of having newborns, babies and even young children on the wrong side of it. The "OK to kill them" side.

[Birkinghamia]

I was speaking on "general intelligence" go observe sponges, or squirrels, or horses, or anything, and show me proof where we aren't more advanced. Ever wonder why neanderthals went extinct? We overtook them, because we are more intelligent.

So humans don't have the ability to live without technology? I wasn't aware that picking berries off a tree required technology.

Okay, a bee. Did you know a bee can solve complex problems better than a supercomputer? Countless research has shown that bees can find out the most efficient route from point A to point B several times more quickly than a SUPER COMPUTER. Supercomputer>humans. Therefore bees>humans. Get the picture? Animals do things we cannot do, and we do things they cannot do. Intelligence is subjective, PERIOD.

Really? That's why we began farming. That's why we began hunting, of course! Are you delusional? Only a small percentage of the human population would survive if technology disappeared. Why? Because they already know where to find fruit, they have plentiful fruit, and they know which fruit is good and which is bad. Face it, without technology, most of humanity would be fucked. Guess that says a lot about our "intelligence."

I'm talking about general intelligence, not specific things. A bee isn't necessarily more intelligent than a human, in general. Yes, that's an exception, but do you see bees writing works of literature? Debating things, as we are now? The answer is, no. They are incapable of complex thought - besides determining the best route from point A to point B. Of course humans are not superior in all ways, just most ways. That's not even what I was arguing.

I said "humans" not all humans. It is possible for humans, as a race, to live without technology. But because of the way we are, it's inevitable that technology will advance.

Anyway, we should get back on the topic of abortion.

[Avenio]

Apparently, most people here think that humans aren't superior to other species.

Superior in what respect? Evolutionarily, there are entire phyla much older and much more successful than us in almost every way. Angiosperms and gymnosperms utterly dominate the terrestrial biosphere to such a degree that the biosphere literally cannot function without them. They've even managed to specialize in many areas to such a degree that they have manipulated other species into cultivating and spreading them across the globe. Every time you eat an apple, you're unwittingly taking part in a highly-developed method of seed dispersal that the apple tree evolved. And that's just multicellular organisms; single-celled critters still dominate the biosphere in terms of mass, diversity and importance to the system's continuing functioning. You yourself would suffer incredibly, if not die outright, if the microbiome of flora and fauna living inside you were to cease to exist. The idea of humans being somehow different and removed from the biosphere, and thus worthy of special rights and privileges is not particularly convincing.

And, of course, if you're arguing about intelligence, particularly in the case of fetuses, they're in no way more intelligent than any other fetal organism. For most of a fetus' development, it has no notable cognitive functioning at all, least of all sentience. In fact, during development even when significant brain activity finally emerges, it is kept under control by natural sedatives released by the fetus and the mother so as to prevent damage and facilitate growth. Right up until the moment labour begins, in fact, fetuses aren't fully 'awake'. For squishy humans this isn't really much of an issue, but for animals like horses, as an example, if a fetal foal was to 'wake up' while still in the womb and begin thrashing about, it could seriously injure its mother.

[Birkinghamia]

Birkinghamia, you still need to explain why you state that taking any life (like a fetus) is wrong, yet you tried to make excuses for killing other beings that just happen to be non-human.

I said taking the life of a human is wrong. A human. Not anything. A human. I've said this multiple times.

[AiliailiA]

Birkinghamia, you still need to explain why you state that taking any life (like a fetus) is wrong, yet you tried to make excuses for killing other beings that just happen to be non-human.

Hey, I can do that. Killing is bad, but not evil. Killing for no reason would be wrong, because there is no good achieved by it to outweigh the bad.

When we kill an ox there is a benefit. Tough luck for the ox, but we feed humans, and being human we find feeding humans to be a good thing. When we kill a fetus (that the mother does not want to gestate and/or does not want to raise as a child), we relieve her of something unpleasant to her.

Rights apply most consistently between adult humans, because the whole concept and the supporting concepts are of language. Animals and fetuses (and to some extent children) understandably get left out because they weren't at the negotiating table when those rights were invented.

Now let's see Birkinghamia's answer.