why abortion is good.

[Birkinghamia]

Of course not. Because human beings are equal, so everyone has the same right as another to give voluntarily.

So it is my choice to give you blood, give up you one of my organs or be hooked up to a device for 9 months that draws nutrients from my body to share with you and returns all kinds of poisons and hormones ? Even though a refusal to do so leads to your death ?

So why would your mother not have been allowed that choice ? Do I have more rights than your mom ?

I am so confused as to why you are asking me about the transfusion thing. How does that relate to the discussion?

And what?

[Vazdania]

All human beings are equal in what way?

we are stupid for being smart

[The Flood]

I'm not talking about murder as dictated by the law, the law is wrong. I am talking about what murder truly is, killing a human being, and that is NOT subjective. It is an act of pure malice and the fact that any government allows abortion disturbs me to the very core.

Why do you think that killing another human being is an act of pure malice?

Why do you think it's not? Seriously, if you believe killing a human, born or not, is acceptable then you should probably see a therapist.

[Birkinghamia]

I think human beings are on a completely different level than any of those things you mentioned.

LOL! You said yourself that killing (which is the act of ending the live of another being) is bad. Everything that is alive falls under killing. You've backed yourself into a corner.

I said "killing a human being". "LOL!"

[Inexplicability]

We kill things all the time. So that argument doesn't work at all. Killing a human in a circumstance that is determined by the law is murder. Thus you cannot say that only killing humans is bad, because that is murder. You MUST include all life when it comes to killing. Thus by saying killing is bad you admit eating meat, using antibiotics to kill living bacteria, etc. is immoral.

Are you one of them weirdies who thinks animals and plants are equal to humans? They aren't, they are not sentient beings, it is natural for us to eat animals. You can't claim to endorse logic and say that a filthy and delicious swine is equal to a human.

I bet you aren't even a vegetarian.

Fetuses aren't sentient.

[Vazdania]

@birkinghamia...how and or why do you believe humans and other animals are on diffrent levels?

[Mavorpen]

LOL! You said yourself that killing (which is the act of ending the live of another being) is bad. Everything that is alive falls under killing. You've backed yourself into a corner.

I said "killing a human being". "LOL!"

Which falls under murder because murder is defined by the law as killing a HUMAN under a certain condition. You're still backed up into a corner.

[Vazdania]

Are you one of them weirdies who thinks animals and plants are equal to humans? They aren't, they are not sentient beings, it is natural for us to eat animals. You can't claim to endorse logic and say that a filthy and delicious swine is equal to a human.

I bet you aren't even a vegetarian.

Fetuses aren't sentient.

why?

[Birkinghamia]

I think human beings are on a completely different level than any of those things you mentioned.

Why are human beings so special? I don't see anything that makes us on a completely different level- this seems sort of speciescentric to me.

Maybe because we are the most intelligent species on the planet? So you think a sponge or something is on the same level as a human?

[Mavorpen]

Why do you think that killing another human being is an act of pure malice?

Why do you think it's not? Seriously, if you believe killing a human, born or not, is acceptable then you should probably see a therapist.

What they do with their body is their problem as long as it doesn't affect another fully developed human being.

[Inexplicability]

Why do you think that killing another human being is an act of pure malice?

Why do you think it's not? Seriously, if you believe killing a human, born or not, is acceptable then you should probably see a therapist.

Well, in other cultures people sacrifice other human beings to gods. Are they doing that to be mean or hostile? I think you believe that killing another human being is wrong because of your culture.

[Birkinghamia]

I said "killing a human being". "LOL!"

Which falls under murder because murder is defined by the law as killing a HUMAN under a certain condition. You're still backed up into a corner.

"Killing" and "murder" are different. Killing isn't necessarily the act of "murder", it's the act of ending a life.

[Vazdania]

Why are human beings so special? I don't see anything that makes us on a completely different level- this seems sort of speciescentric to me.

Maybe because we are the most intelligent species on the planet? So you think a sponge or something is on the same level as a human?

a sponge in the ocean that is alive? possibly. just because soemthing is smarter does not give it an extra level of conciousness, though it may know more, it is not on a diffrent level, IQ 100 person is still as concious as IQ 110 person

[Mavorpen]

Why are human beings so special? I don't see anything that makes us on a completely different level- this seems sort of speciescentric to me.

Maybe because we are the most intelligent species on the planet? So you think a sponge or something is on the same level as a human?

Intelligence is subjective. There are different types of intelligence. Can instantly be placed in the middle of nowhere, in a place you have never been before and determine which direction is north or south without using technology? No? Several other species can. I guess you aren't intelligent.

[Mavorpen]

Which falls under murder because murder is defined by the law as killing a HUMAN under a certain condition. You're still backed up into a corner.

"Killing" and "murder" are different. Killing isn't necessarily the act of "murder", it's the act of ending a life.

Exactly. Therefore you cannot use the word killing. And since murder is subjective, you have no argument.

[Inexplicability]

Why are human beings so special? I don't see anything that makes us on a completely different level- this seems sort of speciescentric to me.

Maybe because we are the most intelligent species on the planet? So you think a sponge or something is on the same level as a human?

So basically we are allowed to kill the young and the mentally challenged because they are less intelligent? Is that what you mean? I don't believe intelligence gives us the right to kill other species- it must be something else.

[Birkinghamia]

Why do you think it's not? Seriously, if you believe killing a human, born or not, is acceptable then you should probably see a therapist.

Well, in other cultures people sacrifice other human beings to gods. Are they doing that to be mean or hostile? I think you believe that killing another human being is wrong because of your culture.

Are you serious? Killing humans is wrong, period. You think killing a human being is okay?

[Vazdania]

Why do you think it's not? Seriously, if you believe killing a human, born or not, is acceptable then you should probably see a therapist.

What they do with their body is their problem as long as it doesn't affect another fully developed human being.

yet everything on a fetus is developed. the beating heart, the electriclly powered brain, the breathing lungs, the little closed eyes...everything! it has a brain and conciousness it has the heart which pumps blood

[Mavorpen]

Well, in other cultures people sacrifice other human beings to gods. Are they doing that to be mean or hostile? I think you believe that killing another human being is wrong because of your culture.

Are you serious? Killing humans is wrong, period. You think killing a human being is okay?

So if someone was going to shoot your family, and your only option was to kill them, you wouldn't?

[Birkinghamia]

Maybe because we are the most intelligent species on the planet? So you think a sponge or something is on the same level as a human?

So basically we are allowed to kill the young and the mentally challenged because they are less intelligent? Is that what you mean? I don't believe intelligence gives us the right to kill other species- it must be something else.

They "young" and the "mentally challenged" are still more intelligent than the other species on this planet.

[Vazdania]

Are you serious? Killing humans is wrong, period. You think killing a human being is okay?

So if someone was going to shoot your family, and your only option was to kill them, you wouldn't?

personally id want a slow and torcherous death where they would suffer to no ends ....but....i do see the point in that...

[Inexplicability]

Well, in other cultures people sacrifice other human beings to gods. Are they doing that to be mean or hostile? I think you believe that killing another human being is wrong because of your culture.

Are you serious? Killing humans is wrong, period. You think killing a human being is okay?

Nah, I'm trying to explain that morals are culturally conditioned and shouldn't be used in logical arguments.

[Birkinghamia]

Are you serious? Killing humans is wrong, period. You think killing a human being is okay?

So if someone was going to shoot your family, and your only option was to kill them, you wouldn't?

Of course I would. That still doesn't make it right. Protecting them would only give a legal reason for me to do so.

[Vazdania]

So basically we are allowed to kill the young and the mentally challenged because they are less intelligent? Is that what you mean? I don't believe intelligence gives us the right to kill other species- it must be something else.

They "young" and the "mentally challenged" are still more intelligent than the other species on this planet.

HIGHLY DISAGREED. Dolphins and Whales rival human intelligence

[Mavorpen]

What they do with their body is their problem as long as it doesn't affect another fully developed human being.

yet everything on a fetus is developed. the beating heart, the electriclly powered brain, the breathing lungs, the little closed eyes...everything! it has a brain and conciousness it has the heart which pumps blood

They are not fully developed.