why abortion is good.

[Mavorpen]

Uh? Murder is determined by law. Law is subjective. Murder is subjective. It's simple.

Maybe "murder" isn't the right word. How about that it's killing a human being? Please tell me that you don't think killing something is subjective.

We kill things all the time. So that argument doesn't work at all. Killing a human in a circumstance that is determined by the law is murder. Thus you cannot say that only killing humans is bad, because that is murder. You MUST include all life when it comes to killing. Thus by saying killing is bad you admit eating meat, using antibiotics to kill living bacteria, etc. is immoral.

[Inexplicability]

Uh? Murder is determined by law. Law is subjective. Murder is subjective. It's simple.

Maybe "murder" isn't the right word. How about that it's killing a human being? Please tell me that you don't think killing something is subjective.

Killing someone isn't subjective. It just depends on when you count something as a human being and why killing a human being is wrong.

[Mavorpen]

You do realize fruit aren't alive right...?

exactly!!! we cant eat things that are alive! fruit arent alive SOOOO they are ok

i never said that. We can eat plants because we need to survive. We can live without meat however, thus killing them has no logical basis, making it immoral.

[Vazdania]

exactly!!! we cant eat things that are alive! fruit arent alive SOOOO they are ok

i never said that. We can eat plants because we need to survive. We can live without meat however, thus killing them has no logical basis, making it immoral.

but you dont wanna kill the poor plants D: do you???

[Inexplicability]

Maybe "murder" isn't the right word. How about that it's killing a human being? Please tell me that you don't think killing something is subjective.

We kill things all the time. So that argument doesn't work at all. Killing a human in a circumstance that is determined by the law is murder. Thus you cannot say that only killing humans is bad, because that is murder. You MUST include all life when it comes to killing. Thus by saying killing is bad you admit eating meat, using antibiotics to kill living bacteria, etc. is immoral.

So true! Our morals of killing are all cultural. Other cultures think it is perfectly fine to kill humans.

[The Alma Mater]

Uh? Murder is determined by law. Law is subjective. Murder is subjective. It's simple.

Maybe "murder" isn't the right word. How about that it's killing a human being? Please tell me that you don't think killing something is subjective.

You were asked twice if I should be allowed to refuse to give you a lifesaving bloodtransfusion. Am I, even though that refusal would mean you'd die ?

[Birkinghamia]

Who says so? I thought all human beings were equal.

Again: can you force me to give up some of my organs and/or blood to save your life, or are they my choice to give ?

Of course not. Because human beings are equal, so everyone has the same right as another to give voluntarily.

[Mavorpen]

i never said that. We can eat plants because we need to survive. We can live without meat however, thus killing them has no logical basis, making it immoral.

but you dont wanna kill the poor plants D: do you???

It's the ability to feel pain that's important in that topic. If you want to starve to death that's fine.

[Birkinghamia]

Maybe "murder" isn't the right word. How about that it's killing a human being? Please tell me that you don't think killing something is subjective.

You were asked twice if I should be allowed to refuse to give you a lifesaving bloodtransfusion. Am I, even though that refusal would mean you'd die ?

Sorry if I'm busy and I can't stalk the thread. See my post above.

[Vazdania]

Maybe "murder" isn't the right word. How about that it's killing a human being? Please tell me that you don't think killing something is subjective.

You were asked twice if I should be allowed to refuse to give you a lifesaving bloodtransfusion. Am I, even though that refusal would mean you'd die ?

yes, that is your blood. If you would love to then go for it. but you should not be forced to give up something of yourself to save something else ( another point why its ok to abort if the mothers life is at stake....)

[The Flood]

Only a fool believes the law is always right. AKA SOPA

That was his point. Law is subjective, therefore murder is subjective. Thanks for proving our point.

I'm not talking about murder as dictated by the law, the law is wrong. I am talking about what murder truly is, killing a human being, and that is NOT subjective. It is an act of pure malice and the fact that any government allows abortion disturbs me to the very core.

[Inexplicability]

Again: can you force me to give up some of my organs and/or blood to save your life, or are they my choice to give ?

Of course not. Because human beings are equal, so everyone has the same right as another to give voluntarily.

All human beings are equal in what way?

[Vazdania]

but you dont wanna kill the poor plants D: do you???

It's the ability to feel pain that's important in that topic. If you want to starve to death that's fine.

can you prove? I would like a link as proof

[Mavorpen]

We kill things all the time. So that argument doesn't work at all. Killing a human in a circumstance that is determined by the law is murder. Thus you cannot say that only killing humans is bad, because that is murder. You MUST include all life when it comes to killing. Thus by saying killing is bad you admit eating meat, using antibiotics to kill living bacteria, etc. is immoral.

So true! Our morals of killing are all cultural. Other cultures think it is perfectly fine to kill humans.

Well, killing is killing no matter what culture you are in. Murder is the one that is subjective.

[Birkinghamia]

Maybe "murder" isn't the right word. How about that it's killing a human being? Please tell me that you don't think killing something is subjective.

We kill things all the time. So that argument doesn't work at all. Killing a human in a circumstance that is determined by the law is murder. Thus you cannot say that only killing humans is bad, because that is murder. You MUST include all life when it comes to killing. Thus by saying killing is bad you admit eating meat, using antibiotics to kill living bacteria, etc. is immoral.

I think human beings are on a completely different level than any of those things you mentioned.

[Inexplicability]

That was his point. Law is subjective, therefore murder is subjective. Thanks for proving our point.

I'm not talking about murder as dictated by the law, the law is wrong. I am talking about what murder truly is, killing a human being, and that is NOT subjective. It is an act of pure malice and the fact that any government allows abortion disturbs me to the very core.

Why do you think that killing another human being is an act of pure malice?

[Mavorpen]

That was his point. Law is subjective, therefore murder is subjective. Thanks for proving our point.

I'm not talking about murder as dictated by the law, the law is wrong. I am talking about what murder truly is, killing a human being, and that is NOT subjective. It is an act of pure malice and the fact that any government allows abortion disturbs me to the very core.

No, murder is the unlawful killing of a human being. The law must dictate a certain case of killing as murder. This makes it subjective. Get over it.

[The Flood]

Maybe "murder" isn't the right word. How about that it's killing a human being? Please tell me that you don't think killing something is subjective.

We kill things all the time. So that argument doesn't work at all. Killing a human in a circumstance that is determined by the law is murder. Thus you cannot say that only killing humans is bad, because that is murder. You MUST include all life when it comes to killing. Thus by saying killing is bad you admit eating meat, using antibiotics to kill living bacteria, etc. is immoral.

Are you one of them weirdies who thinks animals and plants are equal to humans? They aren't, they are not sentient beings, it is natural for us to eat animals. You can't claim to endorse logic and say that a filthy and delicious swine is equal to a human.

I bet you aren't even a vegetarian.

[Mavorpen]

It's the ability to feel pain that's important in that topic. If you want to starve to death that's fine.

can you prove? I would like a link as proof

Peter Singer. Look him up.

[The Alma Mater]

Again: can you force me to give up some of my organs and/or blood to save your life, or are they my choice to give ?

Of course not. Because human beings are equal, so everyone has the same right as another to give voluntarily.

So it is my choice to give you blood, give up you one of my organs or be hooked up to a device for 9 months that draws nutrients from my body to share with you and returns all kinds of poisons and hormones ? Even though a refusal to do so leads to your death ?

So why would your mother not have been allowed that choice ? Do I have more rights than your mom ?

And with that question - which has been asked dozens of times already (hence why I encourage people to read the topic before recycling arguments ad nauseam) I sadly must leave

[Inexplicability]

We kill things all the time. So that argument doesn't work at all. Killing a human in a circumstance that is determined by the law is murder. Thus you cannot say that only killing humans is bad, because that is murder. You MUST include all life when it comes to killing. Thus by saying killing is bad you admit eating meat, using antibiotics to kill living bacteria, etc. is immoral.

I think human beings are on a completely different level than any of those things you mentioned.

Why are human beings so special? I don't see anything that makes us on a completely different level- this seems sort of speciescentric to me.

[Mavorpen]

We kill things all the time. So that argument doesn't work at all. Killing a human in a circumstance that is determined by the law is murder. Thus you cannot say that only killing humans is bad, because that is murder. You MUST include all life when it comes to killing. Thus by saying killing is bad you admit eating meat, using antibiotics to kill living bacteria, etc. is immoral.

Are you one of them weirdies who thinks animals and plants are equal to humans? They aren't, they are not sentient beings, it is natural for us to eat animals. You can't claim to endorse logic and say that a filthy and delicious swine is equal to a human.


I bet you aren't even a vegetarian.

Uh, many animals are sentient. And what matters is their ability to feel pain. Go away please, your arguments have been addressed COUNTLESS times.

[Vazdania]

We kill things all the time. So that argument doesn't work at all. Killing a human in a circumstance that is determined by the law is murder. Thus you cannot say that only killing humans is bad, because that is murder. You MUST include all life when it comes to killing. Thus by saying killing is bad you admit eating meat, using antibiotics to kill living bacteria, etc. is immoral.

Are you one of them weirdies who thinks animals and plants are equal to humans? They aren't, they are not sentient beings, it is natural for us to eat animals. You can't claim to endorse logic and say that a filthy and delicious swine is equal to a human.

I bet you aren't even a vegetarian.

bibiclally we are equal, but we have dominion over them, they have a living spirit in them just as we do...furthermore, scientifically they respond to stimulas and can feel pain...they are equals to us but we have domain over them

[The Flood]

Of course not. Because human beings are equal, so everyone has the same right as another to give voluntarily.

All human beings are equal in what way?

The right to life.

[Mavorpen]

We kill things all the time. So that argument doesn't work at all. Killing a human in a circumstance that is determined by the law is murder. Thus you cannot say that only killing humans is bad, because that is murder. You MUST include all life when it comes to killing. Thus by saying killing is bad you admit eating meat, using antibiotics to kill living bacteria, etc. is immoral.

I think human beings are on a completely different level than any of those things you mentioned.

LOL! You said yourself that killing (which is the act of ending the live of another being) is bad. Everything that is alive falls under killing. You've backed yourself into a corner.