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Oppose the Unification of Europe?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Do you want a European Federation?

Yes
51
46%
No
50
45%
Maybe - Debate
11
10%
 
Total votes : 112

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Theodoran
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Posts: 79
Founded: Aug 31, 2009
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Re: Oppose the Unification of Europe?

Postby Theodoran » Sun Sep 06, 2009 3:27 am

RoI2 wrote:
Theodoran wrote:
RoI2 wrote:
Theodoran wrote:
Dzvasdvsdv wrote:
Theodoran wrote:tell me you were being sarcastic..


...


..?

Yes.


yes?

Do you not understand a 3 letter word?

cat.

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Call to power
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Founded: Apr 13, 2005
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Re: Oppose the Unification of Europe?

Postby Call to power » Sun Sep 06, 2009 3:29 am

Soviet Taoistan wrote:EDIT: Good cheese though on the isles. French cheese is over rated. Still, fully joining the EU collective would allow more Spanish cheeses, the underdog of European cheeses, in.


pfft surely you mean Dutch cheese...course we would need to do something to quietly suppress the Polish cheese >_>

Earth and Vulcan wrote:Untrue, churchill wouldn't let millions of East Inidans starve to death. That's what Japan would do.


No Churchill would deprive the Eastern reaches of India under the guise of not allowing the food to fall into Japanese hands

is it any wonder he was a famous racist towards Indians?

Reunified Sussex wrote:Until you can inject somemodicum of sense and tolerance into this debate then you'll get nowhere.


go move to Russia comrade

Imperialist Reich wrote:We could trade with the Commonwealth to a more greater extent.


how so? you seem to be living in a world where India would magically start trading with us more for no reason other than tradition

though I'm intrigued by how you think the eurozone hampers the commonwealth I really am

Imperialist Reich wrote:It would rather have been the Japanese that would starve the East Indians.


yes that logic is water tight why bother feeding a nations citizens when the Japanese sure wouldn't
The Parkus Empire wrote:Theoretically, why would anyone put anytime into anything but tobacco, intoxicants and sex?

Vareiln wrote:My god, CtP is right...
Not that you haven't been right before, but... Aw, hell, you get what I meant.

Tubbsalot wrote:replace my opinions with CtP's.


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North Suran
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Founded: Jul 12, 2009
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Re: Oppose the Unification of Europe?

Postby North Suran » Sun Sep 06, 2009 3:30 am

RoI2 wrote:
North Suran wrote:I could consider myself to be American; it doesn't make it anymore true.

The fact is, Great Britain refers to the landmass of Wales, Scotland and England.

Ireland is not geographically a part of Great Britain.

As such, NIrish should consider themselves to be "United Kingdomers" (terrible term, but whatev), rather than British.

"The British (also known as Britons, informally Brits, or archaically Britishers) are citizens of the United Kingdom,"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_people
Wrong

By that same article, people who live in Overseas Territories could call themselves British.

To state that being a citizen of the UK is synonymous with being British is a legacy of the days of the British Empire.
Neu Mitanni wrote:As for NS, his latest statement is grounded in ignorance and contrary to fact, much to the surprise of all NSGers.


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RoI2
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Founded: Aug 21, 2009
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Re: Oppose the Unification of Europe?

Postby RoI2 » Sun Sep 06, 2009 3:30 am

North Suran wrote:
RoI2 wrote:
North Suran wrote:I could consider myself to be American; it doesn't make it anymore true.

The fact is, Great Britain refers to the landmass of Wales, Scotland and England.

Ireland is not geographically a part of Great Britain.

As such, NIrish should consider themselves to be "United Kingdomers" (terrible term, but whatev), rather than British.

"The British (also known as Britons, informally Brits, or archaically Britishers) are citizens of the United Kingdom,"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_people
Wrong

By that same article, people who live in Overseas Territories could call themselves British.

To state that being a citizen of the UK is synonymous with being British is a legacy of the days of the British Empire.

And?
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RoI2
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Posts: 869
Founded: Aug 21, 2009
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Re: Oppose the Unification of Europe?

Postby RoI2 » Sun Sep 06, 2009 3:31 am

Theodoran wrote:cat.

Another pointless post. Great.
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Call to power
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Founded: Apr 13, 2005
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Re: Oppose the Unification of Europe?

Postby Call to power » Sun Sep 06, 2009 3:32 am

Imperialist Reich wrote:Okay, I am fine with an EF (European Federation) Just as long as the United Kingdom and Ireland is out of it. At least we will get some freedom.


yes because its not like the EU hasn't forced the UK armed forces to say treat homosexuals like normal human beings or anything
The Parkus Empire wrote:Theoretically, why would anyone put anytime into anything but tobacco, intoxicants and sex?

Vareiln wrote:My god, CtP is right...
Not that you haven't been right before, but... Aw, hell, you get what I meant.

Tubbsalot wrote:replace my opinions with CtP's.


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North Suran
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Founded: Jul 12, 2009
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Re: Oppose the Unification of Europe?

Postby North Suran » Sun Sep 06, 2009 3:32 am

RoI2 wrote:
North Suran wrote:
RoI2 wrote:
North Suran wrote:I could consider myself to be American; it doesn't make it anymore true.

The fact is, Great Britain refers to the landmass of Wales, Scotland and England.

Ireland is not geographically a part of Great Britain.

As such, NIrish should consider themselves to be "United Kingdomers" (terrible term, but whatev), rather than British.

"The British (also known as Britons, informally Brits, or archaically Britishers) are citizens of the United Kingdom,"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_people
Wrong

By that same article, people who live in Overseas Territories could call themselves British.

To state that being a citizen of the UK is synonymous with being British is a legacy of the days of the British Empire.

And?

If a Northern Irishmen considered themselves to be "British", they have essentially accepted the subjugation that the British Empire thrust upon them during the '30s.

If you consider yourself to be British if you come from Ireland or an Overseas Territory, you are insinuating that Great Britain is somehow 'superior', or integral to the United Kingdom.
Neu Mitanni wrote:As for NS, his latest statement is grounded in ignorance and contrary to fact, much to the surprise of all NSGers.


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RoI2
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Founded: Aug 21, 2009
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Re: Oppose the Unification of Europe?

Postby RoI2 » Sun Sep 06, 2009 3:33 am

North Suran wrote:If a Northern Irishmen considered themselves to be "British", they have essentially accepted the subjugation that the British Empire thrust upon them during the '30s.

If you consider yourself to be British if you come from Ireland or an Overseas Territory, you are insinuating that Great Britain is somehow 'superior', or integral to the United Kingdom.

So? It doesn't matter.

Besides - NI is in the British Isles.
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Pure Metal
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Founded: Apr 07, 2004
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Re: Oppose the Unification of Europe?

Postby Pure Metal » Sun Sep 06, 2009 3:34 am

Imperialist Reich wrote:Do you oppose the Lisbon treaty? The soon coming: United States of Europe and the European Union?
Please debate.
Personally, I despise it.
Here is my reason:

The EU's dream has been to take our independence away from each European country right from the start. This can cause outrage from patriots. (like me)
The made the British people be depressed by showing the speech by Winston Churchill saying there should be a United States of Europe. However, the EU does not show that Churchill also stated Britain should not be part of it.
Dosnt it ever make you angry that about over 50% of nations rules are made in Brussels instead of our own government?
And also, the police have the right to shoot without prosecuting the criminal!

Does any of those wage you in the way to support the EU?

actually, i'm all for a Federal Europe.

arguments about national sovereignty are outdated, i don't care about patriotism, and i don't care what Churchill had to say about it 50 years ago. the short, short version of my reasoning is that there's strength in numbers. plus, being closer to Paris than i am to London (as the crow flies, at least) actually makes me feel that these arbitrary boundaries are rather pointless.... even if we are an island.
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Milks Empire
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Founded: Aug 02, 2008
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Re: Oppose the Unification of Europe?

Postby Milks Empire » Sun Sep 06, 2009 3:35 am

Imperialist Reich wrote:The EU's dream has been to take our independence away from each European country right from the start.

Prove this.

Imperialist Reich wrote:The made the British people be depressed by showing the speech by Winston Churchill saying there should be a United States of Europe. However, the EU does not show that Churchill also stated Britain should not be part of it.

Surely a copy of such an important speech is out there for you to link?

Imperialist Reich wrote:Dosnt it ever make you angry that about over 50% of nations rules are made in Brussels instead of our own government?

Let's see some proof for this too.

Imperialist Reich wrote:And also, the police have the right to shoot without prosecuting the criminal!

The last time I checked, there was (in most cases) a shitstorm after every occurrence of such a thing.
Last edited by Milks Empire on Sun Sep 06, 2009 3:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Hating-Silly-Fascists
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Founded: Jun 19, 2009
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Re: Oppose the Unification of Europe?

Postby Hating-Silly-Fascists » Sun Sep 06, 2009 3:35 am

"You get your own say in allot of things. And the English have no say in it. But, the scots get a say in our business...funny that."
I know it was ages ago now, but yeah, I don't actually believe that Scots should have a say in English matters like education, health eg all the things devolution has given us control over.
I think that the English deserve (if they want it of course) their own parliament, their own devolution. I believe we have started down a trail that will eventually lead to the total break up of the UK.

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Call to power
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Founded: Apr 13, 2005
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Re: Oppose the Unification of Europe?

Postby Call to power » Sun Sep 06, 2009 3:35 am

North Suran wrote:If a Northern Irishmen considered themselves to be "British", they have essentially accepted the subjugation that the British Empire thrust upon them during the '30s.


lol wut?

British is the demonym of a citizen of the UK
The Parkus Empire wrote:Theoretically, why would anyone put anytime into anything but tobacco, intoxicants and sex?

Vareiln wrote:My god, CtP is right...
Not that you haven't been right before, but... Aw, hell, you get what I meant.

Tubbsalot wrote:replace my opinions with CtP's.


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Southern Americama
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Founded: May 28, 2009
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Re: Oppose the Unification of Europe?

Postby Southern Americama » Sun Sep 06, 2009 3:36 am

The EU is a bureaucratic morass run by French and German people. It would be a sad day if the EU united.

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Dzvasdvsdv
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Founded: Sep 05, 2009
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Re: Oppose the Unification of Europe?

Postby Dzvasdvsdv » Sun Sep 06, 2009 3:36 am

North Suran wrote:If a Northern Irishmen considered themselves to be "British", they have essentially accepted the subjugation that the British Empire thrust upon them during the '30s.


No actually, 6 counties of Ulster voted to remain with the UK.

North Suran wrote:If you consider yourself to be British if you come from Ireland or an Overseas Territory, you are insinuating that Great Britain is somehow 'superior', or integral to the United Kingdom.


What a pile of horseshit. And just so you know, Great Britain is integral to the UK. It's where most of the people live and where the laws get passed etc.

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North Suran
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Founded: Jul 12, 2009
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Re: Oppose the Unification of Europe?

Postby North Suran » Sun Sep 06, 2009 3:37 am

RoI2 wrote:
North Suran wrote:If a Northern Irishmen considered themselves to be "British", they have essentially accepted the subjugation that the British Empire thrust upon them during the '30s.

If you consider yourself to be British if you come from Ireland or an Overseas Territory, you are insinuating that Great Britain is somehow 'superior', or integral to the United Kingdom.

So? It doesn't matter.

Besides - NI is in the British Isles.

I'd say preventing your nationality and country from being umbrella'd under an Imperialist term does "matter".

And furthermore, I see you've neatly evaded the earlier point about the fact that you complained about Americans asserting stereotypes about Britain, when you yourself stereotyped the Scots.

I didn't agree with the post you were responding to; but you took an ignorant, minority opinion and stretched it over the whole of the Scottish race, before proceeding to make racial slurs and stereotypes - equally as reprehensible.
Neu Mitanni wrote:As for NS, his latest statement is grounded in ignorance and contrary to fact, much to the surprise of all NSGers.


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RoI2
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Founded: Aug 21, 2009
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Re: Oppose the Unification of Europe?

Postby RoI2 » Sun Sep 06, 2009 3:38 am

Hating-Silly-Fascists wrote:I know it was ages ago now, but yeah, I don't actually believe that Scots should have a say in English matters like education, health eg all the things devolution has given us control over.

You think you have a right to say how my country is run, but I have no right to have a say in how your country is run?

I think that the English deserve (if they want it of course) their own parliament,
Then you wouldn't get a say in our business.

their own devolution. I believe we have started down a trail that will eventually lead to the total break up of the UK

That's not a good thing for you or us.

edit- tho, better for us than for you
Last edited by RoI2 on Sun Sep 06, 2009 3:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Call to power
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Re: Oppose the Unification of Europe?

Postby Call to power » Sun Sep 06, 2009 3:39 am

Hating-Silly-Fascists wrote:I believe we have started down a trail that will eventually lead to the total break up of the UK.


I've never really seen all the point in this myself it just seems like a huge headache when you already have regional autonomy (along with a cash flow that flows into Scotland not out) and would presumably function under the EU at any rate
Last edited by Call to power on Sun Sep 06, 2009 3:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
The Parkus Empire wrote:Theoretically, why would anyone put anytime into anything but tobacco, intoxicants and sex?

Vareiln wrote:My god, CtP is right...
Not that you haven't been right before, but... Aw, hell, you get what I meant.

Tubbsalot wrote:replace my opinions with CtP's.


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Joltonia
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Founded: Sep 02, 2009
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Re: Oppose the Unification of Europe?

Postby Joltonia » Sun Sep 06, 2009 3:40 am

Towards the issue of what the people of Northern Ireland call themselves according to my former teacher, who is a Northern Irish man, the people within the region simply call themselves Northern Irish. I think that term is used to imply the populace in general and the Northern Irish who call themselves British are Unionists and Loyalists, whereas the Nationalists and Republicans just call themselves Irish.

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Dzvasdvsdv
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Founded: Sep 05, 2009
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Re: Oppose the Unification of Europe?

Postby Dzvasdvsdv » Sun Sep 06, 2009 3:40 am

Call to power wrote:I've never really seen all the point in this myself it just seems like a huge headache when you already have regional autonomy (along with a cash flow that flow into Scotland not out) and would presumably function under the EU at any rate


In the words of Mel Gibson; "FREEEEEEEEEEEDOOOOOOOOOM!"

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United Russian State
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Founded: Jul 03, 2009
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Re: Oppose the Unification of Europe?

Postby United Russian State » Sun Sep 06, 2009 3:43 am

Let them form their Europe Federation, it makes no differnce.
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RoI2
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Re: Oppose the Unification of Europe?

Postby RoI2 » Sun Sep 06, 2009 3:44 am

United Russian State wrote:Let them form their Europe Federation, it makes no differnce.

To what?
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Call to power
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Re: Oppose the Unification of Europe?

Postby Call to power » Sun Sep 06, 2009 3:44 am

Dzvasdvsdv wrote:In the words of Mel Gibson; "FREEEEEEEEEEEDOOOOOOOOOM!"


painting yourself blue and running around in a skirt should be a universal human right :lol:

...maybe not the whole exterminating the Jews part though
The Parkus Empire wrote:Theoretically, why would anyone put anytime into anything but tobacco, intoxicants and sex?

Vareiln wrote:My god, CtP is right...
Not that you haven't been right before, but... Aw, hell, you get what I meant.

Tubbsalot wrote:replace my opinions with CtP's.


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Hating-Silly-Fascists
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Re: Oppose the Unification of Europe?

Postby Hating-Silly-Fascists » Sun Sep 06, 2009 3:45 am

nd o dear me I just read the rest . . . I never meant to start a whole Scottish v English thing! Everyone always assums that cause I'm a nat, I'm anti-english. I'm honestly not! I just think that inevitably our cultural differences and historical bitterness (can anyone say highland clearances?!) will drive us apart and as history is cyclical, probably back together again in a couple of centuries.
But I am amazed at and offended by the anti-Scottish feeling from particular members. I don;'t even want to start a fight with them, but merely let their own retarded comments (barbed with popular stereotypes (which, by the way, makes us one of the worlds most popular tourist destinations and best-known small nations)) speak for themselves.

know it was ages ago now, but yeah, I don't actually believe that Scots should have a say in English matters like education, health eg all the things devolution has given us control over.


You think you have a right to say how my country is run, but I have no right to have a say in how your country is run?


I think you kinda missed my point . . . I dont want a say in english matters.

their own devolution. I believe we have started down a trail that will eventually lead to the total break up of the UK


That's not a good thing for you or us.


One word - oil.

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Dzvasdvsdv
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Founded: Sep 05, 2009
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Re: Oppose the Unification of Europe?

Postby Dzvasdvsdv » Sun Sep 06, 2009 3:45 am

RoI2 wrote:To what?


TO SUPER PUTIN! He's a pretty cool guy eh, kills tigers with his bare hands and doesn't afraid of anything.

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Dzvasdvsdv
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Re: Oppose the Unification of Europe?

Postby Dzvasdvsdv » Sun Sep 06, 2009 3:46 am

Call to power wrote:painting yourself blue and running around in a skirt should be a universal human right :lol:

...maybe not the whole exterminating the Jews part though


Eh it's all good. You know what they're like, hoarding gold and stealing our freedoms from behind the scenes.

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