November 30th Strikes - UK

[Melmont]

I do realise the difference, however that further evidences a point that Private Sector workers can GET THAT PENSION IF THEY WANT TO (Sorry, I shouted a tad there).

It does? I quite clearly said that even like for like comparisons are a different kettle of fish

The reality of it is that there is really no need for pension reforms.. Everyone pays for everyone else's pension, and thats a fact.

Is it fuck.

The company pension I am with atm is funded by my own contribution plus a percentage from my employer, this money is then part of a fund that is invested into other areas like Icelandic banks and sub-prime mortgages. When I go to collect my annuity the state will give me a nice tax break on account of the fact that I won't be on its tit for the next 40 years.

"but CtP what about your State pension!"

Comes from my NI contribution, sorry.

This is proved by the fact that we are an interdependent nation, and at a time where deep public sector cuts are crippling households and causing bankruptcy, it really isn't the time to be fiddling with peoples pensions.

Can we suddenly afford these expenses in your fantasy land? Look the state is not making the kind of money it was before recession and at the moment it needs to cut its borrowing before we start getting funny looks, we simply cannot provide the services we once could and that fact is pretty inescapable.

No one has ever complained about the amount that the government contributes to its workers pensions

What planet have you been living on then?

and if they're unhappy that their private employers pay less, they themselves should strike for better contributions, as opposed to calling for Public Sector workers pensions to be reduced.

Or rather they will understand something about finance and how this is their money that is being played with

Everyone pays for everyone else pension. Companies with occupational pension provision for their employees include pensions costs when pricing their goods and services. All taxpayers pay for the cost of inadequate pension saving (increasingly prevalent in the private sector) through the tax and national insurance spent on the increased take up of state benefits and demand on NHS and council care services.

[Cosmopoles]

Yes. I am. And do you know who else pays for the pensions of people whos companies have closed down or gone bust? Little old british taxpayer, thats who.

The difference being that in this situation the amount the taxpayer is liable has already been fixed because the pension scheme ends.

If the taxpayer has to fund my private pension scheme, what stops my employer from ramping up the benefits and slashing the contributions and just charging the difference to the government?

[Call to power]

I think one of the most offensive things about New Labour at the moment is this whole slogan pish. And this is from someone who broadly supports them. That and Brownites insincerely pretending to have feelings about anything other than money.

You clearly aren't on the email list then, Balls sent me a message this afternoon entitled 'It didn't have to be this way‏' which made me feel immensely dirty.

[Melmont]

Yes. I am. And do you know who else pays for the pensions of people whos companies have closed down or gone bust? Little old british taxpayer, thats who.

The difference being that in this situation the amount the taxpayer is liable has already been fixed because the pension scheme ends.

If the taxpayer has to fund my private pension scheme, what stops my employer from ramping up the benefits and slashing the contributions and just charging the difference to the government?

More to the point, what stops your no doubt extremely wealthy employer matching the Public Sector pension scheme, ending the argument about Public Sector workers having a better pension, and give you a better quality of retirement as well?

[Cosmopoles]

More to the point, what stops your no doubt extremely wealthy employer matching the Public Sector pension scheme, ending the argument about Public Sector workers having a better pension, and give you a better quality of retirement as well?

The fact that the public sector pension scheme is unsustainable and emulating it would bankrupt the business.

[Ipeland]

Yey! No school.

Pretty much this

[Call to power]

Everyone pays for everyone else pension.

Not really, I could fuck it all off right now if I wanted a stick some coke up my nose and I can do that because that money is mine. I worked for it.

Companies with occupational pension provision for their employees include pensions costs when pricing their goods and services.

Yeah and I provide a service that is why I am paid this money. The money is quite clearly mine because I theoretically made it.

All taxpayers pay for the cost of inadequate pension saving (increasingly prevalent in the private sector) through the tax and national insurance spent on the increased take up of state benefits and demand on NHS and council care services.

Only that taxpayer is me. I am paying for this.

[Melmont]

More to the point, what stops your no doubt extremely wealthy employer matching the Public Sector pension scheme, ending the argument about Public Sector workers having a better pension, and give you a better quality of retirement as well?

The fact that the public sector pension scheme is unsustainable and emulating it would bankrupt the business.

Yeah, okay.. I mean, its not like British Gas announced profits of £7bn at the start of the year then hiked their prices by 20%, or that Vodafone has successfully evaded £126m of tax paying.

[Jenlom]

And private sector services are any less important...how?

And the strikes have no chance of success. The Government won't back down; it's already won.

I have to agree with that one, the only way to gets result is an indefinate strike...

And lets be honest, what do private sector business REALLY offer the people of Britain, other than services or products at extortionate prices that rise in line with this ridiculous government & its english banks' figures of inflation and interest rates.

The funds.

[Yootwopia]

The fact that the public sector pension scheme is unsustainable and emulating it would bankrupt the business.

Yeah, okay.. I mean, its not like British Gas announced profits of £7bn at the start of the year then hiked their prices by 20%, or that Vodafone has successfully evaded £126m of tax paying.

Ah I'm glad we've moved onto the "basically unrelated stuff" argument here.

[Neo Arcad]

And private sector services are any less important...how?

And the strikes have no chance of success. The Government won't back down; it's already won.

I have to agree with that one, the only way to gets result is an indefinate strike...

And lets be honest, what do private sector business REALLY offer the people of Britain, other than services or products at extortionate prices that rise in line with this ridiculous government & its english banks' figures of inflation and interest rates.

See, this is why we need robots to replace workers; because they can strike indefinitely!
Yep, no flaws with THAT plan.

[Yootwopia]

I think one of the most offensive things about New Labour at the moment is this whole slogan pish. And this is from someone who broadly supports them. That and Brownites insincerely pretending to have feelings about anything other than money.

You clearly aren't on the email list then, Balls sent me a message this afternoon entitled 'It didn't have to be this way‏' which made me feel immensely dirty.

I'm not. Care to post it, or is that banned for fear of Tories ripping it off?

[Cosmopoles]

Yeah, okay.. I mean, its not like British Gas announced profits of £7bn at the start of the year then hiked their prices by 20%, or that Vodafone has successfully evaded £126m of tax paying.

That doesn't make a public sector style pension scheme affordable for all businesses. I'm very doubtful it would make it affordable for those businesses - the pension deficit is seven to eight times the government payroll.

[Call to power]

I'm not. Care to post it, or is that banned for fear of Tories ripping it off?

Dunno, lets find out:

Dear Robert,


Today is judgement day for David Cameron and George Osborne.

After a year and a half in government, we now know that their reckless gamble with our economy had catastrophically backfired.

With prices rising and unemployment soaring families, pensioners and businesses already know it’s hurting.

And with billions more borrowing than planned to pay for rising unemployment, today we find out the truth - it’s just not working.


Click here to share Labour’s alternative


The Government’s independent budget watchdog said today that the Government will break its promise to balance the books by the time of the general election.

George Osborne is now set to borrow £158 billion more than planned a year ago – the bill for the economic failure, higher unemployment and bigger benefits bill his failed plan has created. And it means £37 billion more borrowing in future years than the OBR’s verdict on the more balanced plan Labour set out before the election and this Government ripped up.

As we warned, trying to cut spending and raise taxes further and faster has been utterly self-defeating.

It didn’t have to be this way. Today was an opportunity for the Government to change course and adopt Labour’s five point plan for jobs.

But instead David Cameron and George Osborne are clinging on to a failing plan – and they’re so out of touch they have decided to hit families hard by cutting tax credits, while refusing to repeat the bank bonus tax as Labour has called for.

Today, we need to show people there is an alternative. Click here to share Labour’s five point plan for jobs

George Osborne should listen not just to Labour but also to the IMF and change course now. Labour’s five point plan for jobs would not fix things overnight – but it is a better way to help hard-pressed families, create jobs and support small businesses.

And by getting our economy moving again, it will also help to get the deficit down – and do so in a fair way. Because it cannot be right to borrow tens of billions of pounds to keep people on the dole, when we could be investing to get people back to work.

Protecting our economy, businesses, jobs and family finances is more important than trying to protect a failed plan.


Best wishes,

Ed Balls

Not really that interesting mind but you now have an inside look into the inner working of the party.

[Yootwopia]

"It's hurting but it's not working", I cannot wait for this slogan to be bandied about even more, SIGH.

[Charlotte Ryberg]

To be honest, the strikers have a valid case, but any deal must address the deficit otherwise we're in trouble.

[Augustus Este]

Relatively limited lifetime earning potential in a lot of cases offset by fucking tasty pensions.

If you're a public sector worker who retires on a salary of £40k a year, you are not entitled to anything more than a private sector worker who retires on the same amount.

Yet the public sector worker gets a better pension.

I have no idea about the UK, but in the US public sector workers tend to make less than equivalent jobs in the private sector.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/07/government-employees-23-percent-less-private-sector_n_1080108.html

[Nadkor]

To be honest, what entitles public sector workers to pensions that are relatively more generous than the vast majority of private sector ones?

Why do private sector workers settle for pensions that are relatively less generous than the vast majority of public sector ones?

[The Matthew Islands]

To be honest, what entitles public sector workers to pensions that are relatively more generous than the vast majority of private sector ones?

Why do private sector workers settle for pensions that are relatively less generous than the vast majority of public sector ones?

Is it easier for the Private sector to essentially say, like it or sod off?

[Tekcirb]

I support them, in fact i'm making my way down to Central London today.

[Yootwopia]

To be honest, what entitles public sector workers to pensions that are relatively more generous than the vast majority of private sector ones?

Why do private sector workers settle for pensions that are relatively less generous than the vast majority of public sector ones?

Because they underestimate their bargaining power / understand how easily they can be gotten rid of.

[Aethelstania]

Although I dont disagree with what the strikers are demanding I think its a waste of time because it will not change anything ! Also I think Doctors , Nurses , Ambulance drivers and the like should have a union but not be allowed to strike. Purely because if you make box's for a company and you go on strike the company looses money. If your a doctor or an ambulance driver and you go on strike people loose their lives. So I would say to them look guys you cant go on strike but heres a massive wage increase to go up with inflation ... but this is getting of topic

[Kilobugya]

Good luck to the strikers ! Don't let them make you pay their crisis !

[Angleter]

They're doing too much at, taking things too far and too fast.

You do know you can form a separate opinion to part slogans right?

These strikes are wrong at a time when negotiations are still going on, but parents and the public have been let down by both sides, because the government has acted in a reckless and provocative manner. After today's disruption I urge both sides to put aside the rhetoric, get round the negotiating table, and stop it happening again.

[Free foundation]

pension system should be abolished and people shud be asked to save and invest for their retirement.