What do you think of Ron Paul?

[Patriqvinia]

you will

Summarize it.

Donating food (or anything really, just insert the variables) to African villages puts local farmers out of business because they can't sell their produce anymore. This results (largely) in the farmers moving to Europe thereby leaving Africa with fewer farmers and making them more dependent on aid. It's... it's basically like feeding deer huge piles of carrots, this massive amount of food enables them to breed at a higher rate and eventually -either through plain exhaustion or some other circumstance- the pile disappears or the amount of carrots stops being sufficient; this causes massive starvation amongst the deer.

[Genivaria]

Summarize it.

Donating food (or anything really, just insert the variables) to African villages puts local farmers out of business because they can't sell their produce anymore. This results (largely) in the farmers moving to Europe thereby leaving Africa with fewer farmers and making them more dependent on aid. It's... it's basically like feeding deer huge piles of carrots, this massive amount of food enables them to breed at a higher rate and eventually -either through plain exhaustion or some other circumstance- the pile disappears or the amount of carrots stops being sufficient; this causes massive starvation amongst the deer.

And this is why we need a Resource Based Economy.

[Virabia]

He's an idiot. Just, his competition is even dumber...

[Sibirsky]

There is a guy in some state facing 75 years in prison for videotaping the police. I mean, is that outrageous or is that outrageous?

I slightly disagree on the economy part, but whatever. Disregard that. I agree on everything else.

Also, no knock warrants are extremely dangerous. Some states are allowing the police to serve warrants by breaking down the person's door (no knocking). However, because of our relatively strong protection of the 2nd amendment (which I love btw) a lot of people are armed.

Now tell me, if your house is being broken into (you do not yet know it's the cops) and you have a gun, what are you likely to do? And when the police get in and see you armed what are they likely to do?

How is that acceptable? How is it acceptable to detain Americans indefinitely for a variety of reasons including disagreeing with the government on certain issues? What happened to the land of the free? The 21st century has been a disaster for this country and it saddens me.

There are problems in Europe too. But I do not yet see any European government claiming the right to assassinate, or indefinitely imprison it's own people.

I agree completely.
And what's really disturbing is how few people are outraged. Alot of Americans are just completely apathetic to whats going on.

This is one of the reasons I like you.

Apathy is prevalent. My closest group of friends are absolutely apathetic. They very, very rarely get into anything about politics or economics. They are partially responsible for me being on this website, where I can get all the politics and economics I want.

Anyway, they are big sports and gambling nuts. They're the ones I went to Vegas with all those times. Awesome trips. But that's like life for them. And when I was a little pushy on politics one of them went off on me a bit, and said "what happened to you? You're not a fun guy anymore."

I partially agree. But that's entirely because I see my favorite nation and it's people being raped an pillaged by banks, corporations and government.

I went off on him too. "All you talk about is sports. I love sports too, but it doesn't fucking matter if the Redskins win or lose. The economy matters. The loss of our civil rights matters."

We're all Redskins fans. But really, some game in 2011 will not matter as early as next year. Government decisions have the potential of affecting far more people, for far longer.

[Simon Cowell of the RR]

Panem et circenses, Sibirsky.

[Genivaria]

I agree completely.
And what's really disturbing is how few people are outraged. Alot of Americans are just completely apathetic to whats going on.

This is one of the reasons I like you.

Apathy is prevalent. My closest group of friends are absolutely apathetic. They very, very rarely get into anything about politics or economics. They are partially responsible for me being on this website, where I can get all the politics and economics I want.

Anyway, they are big sports and gambling nuts. They're the ones I went to Vegas with all those times. Awesome trips. But that's like life for them. And when I was a little pushy on politics one of them went off on me a bit, and said "what happened to you? You're not a fun guy anymore."

I partially agree. But that's entirely because I see my favorite nation and it's people being raped an pillaged by banks, corporations and government.

I went off on him too. "All you talk about is sports. I love sports too, but it doesn't fucking matter if the Redskins win or lose. The economy matters. The loss of our civil rights matters."

We're all Redskins fans. But really, some game in 2011 will not matter as early as next year. Government decisions have the potential of affecting far more people, for far longer.

Seriously, I could say the exact same thing to my Uncle and the rest of my family. My mom gets mad at me whenever I try to bring up politics and my friend's usual response is "oh I don't really care about that stuff".
What!? Oh yes because the Kardashians and what kind of dog Obama's getting are SO much more important then the state of our country. *sigh*

[Patriqvinia]

Donating food (or anything really, just insert the variables) to African villages puts local farmers out of business because they can't sell their produce anymore. This results (largely) in the farmers moving to Europe thereby leaving Africa with fewer farmers and making them more dependent on aid. It's... it's basically like feeding deer huge piles of carrots, this massive amount of food enables them to breed at a higher rate and eventually -either through plain exhaustion or some other circumstance- the pile disappears or the amount of carrots stops being sufficient; this causes massive starvation amongst the deer.

And this is why we need a Resource Based Economy.

How would that work?

[Milks Empire]

Apathy is prevalent. My closest group of friends are absolutely apathetic. They very, very rarely get into anything about politics or economics. They are partially responsible for me being on this website, where I can get all the politics and economics I want.

And then some, I bet.

We're all Redskins fans. But really, some game in 2011 will not matter as early as next year. Government decisions have the potential of affecting far more people, for far longer.

I don't really care about sports (as long as the Steelers, Patriots, and Tony Stewart don't win, I'm happy). How we're currently getting fucked over is most definitely much more important.

[Genivaria]

And this is why we need a Resource Based Economy.

How would that work?

Primary in Fresco's vision is the concept of a "resource-based economy." It incorporates sustainable cities and values, along with the goals of energy efficiency, natural resource management, and advanced automation, focusing on the benefits that it might bring to humanity as a whole.
According to Fresco, poverty, crime, corruption and war are the result of scarcity created by the present world's profit-based economic system. He theorizes that the profit motive also stifles the progress of socially beneficial technology, and instead he favors a system that fosters the purpose motive. Fresco claims that the progression of technology, if it were carried on independently of its profitability, would make more resources available to more people by producing an abundance of products and materials. This new-found abundance of resources would, according to Fresco, reduce the human tendency toward individualism, corruption, and greed, and instead rely on people helping each other.
A resource-based economy replaces the need for the current monetary economy, which is "scarcity-oriented" or "scarcity-based". Fresco argues that the world is rich in natural resources and energy and that — with modern technology and judicious efficiency — the needs of the global population can be met with abundance, while at the same time removing the current limitations of what is deemed possible due to notions of economic viability.

[Sibirsky]

This is one of the reasons I like you.

Apathy is prevalent. My closest group of friends are absolutely apathetic. They very, very rarely get into anything about politics or economics. They are partially responsible for me being on this website, where I can get all the politics and economics I want.

Anyway, they are big sports and gambling nuts. They're the ones I went to Vegas with all those times. Awesome trips. But that's like life for them. And when I was a little pushy on politics one of them went off on me a bit, and said "what happened to you? You're not a fun guy anymore."

I partially agree. But that's entirely because I see my favorite nation and it's people being raped an pillaged by banks, corporations and government.

I went off on him too. "All you talk about is sports. I love sports too, but it doesn't fucking matter if the Redskins win or lose. The economy matters. The loss of our civil rights matters."

We're all Redskins fans. But really, some game in 2011 will not matter as early as next year. Government decisions have the potential of affecting far more people, for far longer.

Seriously, I could say the exact same thing to my Uncle and the rest of my family. My mom gets mad at me whenever I try to bring up politics and my friend's usual response is "oh I don't really care about that stuff".
What!? Oh yes because the Kardashians and what kind of dog Obama's getting are SO much more important then the state of our country. *sigh*

Seriously. The media is also partially responsible. A bill was passed by the house or the senate that would cost us $2 trillion. At around the same time Michael Jackson died.

Yes, I fucking get it. He was the King of Pop and all that. He was an awesome musician. It is big news, especially at his relatively young age of 50. But bigger news than a $2 trillion bill? Come on!

LeBron James doing his chalk toss is bigger news than any Obama speech. Now for the most part, I don't care about speeches. I care about actions. But compared to tossing a bit of chalk in the air?

It's ridiculous.

[Sibirsky]

Apathy is prevalent. My closest group of friends are absolutely apathetic. They very, very rarely get into anything about politics or economics. They are partially responsible for me being on this website, where I can get all the politics and economics I want.

And then some, I bet.

We're all Redskins fans. But really, some game in 2011 will not matter as early as next year. Government decisions have the potential of affecting far more people, for far longer.

I don't really care about sports (as long as the Steelers, Patriots, and Tony Stewart don't win, I'm happy). How we're currently getting fucked over is most definitely much more important.

Exactly.

[Genivaria]

Its all just so damn depressing. I used to want to go into politics to try and do some good.
Save the sinking ship as it were. But now I'm starting to think that abandoning ship is really the only option left.
Nothing in this country is gonna change, not unless something...bloody happens.

[Free Soviets]

just so we don't forget, ron paul is a racist, homophobic, conspiracy-mongering scumbag.

“[Martin Luther King, Jr.], the FBI files reveal, was not only a world-class adulterer, he also seduced underage girls and boys…And we are supposed to honor this ‘Christian minister’ and lying socialist satyr with a holiday that puts him on par with George Washington?” -December 1990

“Order was only restored in LA when it came time for the blacks to collect their welfare checks. The ‘poor’ lined up at the Post Office to get their handouts (since there were no deliveries) — and then complained about slow service.” -Report on LA riots, June 1992

“I’ve been told not to talk, but these stooges don’t scare me. Threats or no threats, I’ve laid bare the coming race war in our big cities. The federal-homosexual cover-up on AIDS (my training as a physician helps me see through this one.)” -Direct mail ad promoting Paul’s newsletters, written from Paul’s perspective, 1993

“It is human nature that like attracts likes. But whites are not allowed to express this same human impulse. Except in a de facto sense, there can be no white schools, white clubs, or white neighborhoods. The political system demands white integration, while allowing black segregation.” -‘The Disappearing White Majority,’ January 1993

“An ex-cop I know advises that if you have to use a gun on a [black] youth, you should leave the scene immediately, disposing of the wiped off gun as soon as possible. Such a gun cannot, of course, be registered to you, but one bought privately (through the classifieds, for example)....[E]ven in my little town of Lake Jackson, Texas, I've urged everyone in my family to know how to use a gun in self defense. For the animals are coming.” ‘Blast ‘Em’, October 1992

“When the New Money is imposed, every American family must have a Survival Kit of highly liquid, small-denomination silver and gold coins for hand-to-hand use. The Ron Paul Survival Kit — now an industry standard — comes in an official World War II US Army ammo holder.” -Ad for ‘The Original Famous Ron Paul Survival Kit,’ undated

“I miss the closet. Homosexuals, not to speak of the rest of society, were far better off when social pressure forced them to hide their activities. They could also not be as promiscuous. Is it any wonder the AIDS epidemic started after they ‘came out of the closet,’ and started hyper-promiscuous sodomy?” -June 1990


and there are many many many many more if you feel like digging through his bircher newsletters yourself.

[Genivaria]

just so we don't forget, ron paul is a racist, homophobic, conspiracy-mongering scumbag.

“[Martin Luther King, Jr.], the FBI files reveal, was not only a world-class adulterer, he also seduced underage girls and boys…And we are supposed to honor this ‘Christian minister’ and lying socialist satyr with a holiday that puts him on par with George Washington?” -December 1990

“Order was only restored in LA when it came time for the blacks to collect their welfare checks. The ‘poor’ lined up at the Post Office to get their handouts (since there were no deliveries) — and then complained about slow service.” -Report on LA riots, June 1992

“I’ve been told not to talk, but these stooges don’t scare me. Threats or no threats, I’ve laid bare the coming race war in our big cities. The federal-homosexual cover-up on AIDS (my training as a physician helps me see through this one.)” -Direct mail ad promoting Paul’s newsletters, written from Paul’s perspective, 1993

“It is human nature that like attracts likes. But whites are not allowed to express this same human impulse. Except in a de facto sense, there can be no white schools, white clubs, or white neighborhoods. The political system demands white integration, while allowing black segregation.” -‘The Disappearing White Majority,’ January 1993

“An ex-cop I know advises that if you have to use a gun on a [black] youth, you should leave the scene immediately, disposing of the wiped off gun as soon as possible. Such a gun cannot, of course, be registered to you, but one bought privately (through the classifieds, for example)....[E]ven in my little town of Lake Jackson, Texas, I've urged everyone in my family to know how to use a gun in self defense. For the animals are coming.” ‘Blast ‘Em’, October 1992

“When the New Money is imposed, every American family must have a Survival Kit of highly liquid, small-denomination silver and gold coins for hand-to-hand use. The Ron Paul Survival Kit — now an industry standard — comes in an official World War II US Army ammo holder.” -Ad for ‘The Original Famous Ron Paul Survival Kit,’ undated

“I miss the closet. Homosexuals, not to speak of the rest of society, were far better off when social pressure forced them to hide their activities. They could also not be as promiscuous. Is it any wonder the AIDS epidemic started after they ‘came out of the closet,’ and started hyper-promiscuous sodomy?” -June 1990


and there are many many many many more if you feel like digging through his bircher newsletters yourself.

Gonna call bullshit here.

[Moral Libertarians]

Its all just so damn depressing. I used to want to go into politics to try and do some good.
Save the sinking ship as it were. But now I'm starting to think that abandoning ship is really the only option left.
Nothing in this country is gonna change, not unless something...bloody happens.

Don't say stuff like that two days before Christmas!

No matter how true it may be...

[Free Soviets]

just so we don't forget, ron paul is a racist, homophobic, conspiracy-mongering scumbag.

“[Martin Luther King, Jr.], the FBI files reveal, was not only a world-class adulterer, he also seduced underage girls and boys…And we are supposed to honor this ‘Christian minister’ and lying socialist satyr with a holiday that puts him on par with George Washington?” -December 1990

“Order was only restored in LA when it came time for the blacks to collect their welfare checks. The ‘poor’ lined up at the Post Office to get their handouts (since there were no deliveries) — and then complained about slow service.” -Report on LA riots, June 1992

“I’ve been told not to talk, but these stooges don’t scare me. Threats or no threats, I’ve laid bare the coming race war in our big cities. The federal-homosexual cover-up on AIDS (my training as a physician helps me see through this one.)” -Direct mail ad promoting Paul’s newsletters, written from Paul’s perspective, 1993

“It is human nature that like attracts likes. But whites are not allowed to express this same human impulse. Except in a de facto sense, there can be no white schools, white clubs, or white neighborhoods. The political system demands white integration, while allowing black segregation.” -‘The Disappearing White Majority,’ January 1993

“An ex-cop I know advises that if you have to use a gun on a [black] youth, you should leave the scene immediately, disposing of the wiped off gun as soon as possible. Such a gun cannot, of course, be registered to you, but one bought privately (through the classifieds, for example)....[E]ven in my little town of Lake Jackson, Texas, I've urged everyone in my family to know how to use a gun in self defense. For the animals are coming.” ‘Blast ‘Em’, October 1992

“When the New Money is imposed, every American family must have a Survival Kit of highly liquid, small-denomination silver and gold coins for hand-to-hand use. The Ron Paul Survival Kit — now an industry standard — comes in an official World War II US Army ammo holder.” -Ad for ‘The Original Famous Ron Paul Survival Kit,’ undated

“I miss the closet. Homosexuals, not to speak of the rest of society, were far better off when social pressure forced them to hide their activities. They could also not be as promiscuous. Is it any wonder the AIDS epidemic started after they ‘came out of the closet,’ and started hyper-promiscuous sodomy?” -June 1990


and there are many many many many more if you feel like digging through his bircher newsletters yourself.

Gonna call bullshit here.

on what, exactly? it was his newsletter, written in his name, making him millions of dollars, and he originally defended the truth of his various nutbag claims. it was only later that he started denying he had anything to do with it. which, if true, makes him not just somebody who pals around with bigots, but also wildly incompetent too.

[Genivaria]

Its all just so damn depressing. I used to want to go into politics to try and do some good.
Save the sinking ship as it were. But now I'm starting to think that abandoning ship is really the only option left.
Nothing in this country is gonna change, not unless something...bloody happens.

Don't say stuff like that two days before Christmas!

No matter how true it may be...

Sorry about that. Your right. Merry Christmas everyone, or Happy Holidays or whatever you prefer.

[Moral Libertarians]

Don't say stuff like that two days before Christmas!

No matter how true it may be...

Sorry about that. Your right. Merry Christmas everyone, or Happy Holidays or whatever you prefer.

Same back at you

[New Embossia]

He has good values, but he has no chance of winning.

[Sibirsky]

Its all just so damn depressing. I used to want to go into politics to try and do some good.
Save the sinking ship as it were. But now I'm starting to think that abandoning ship is really the only option left.
Nothing in this country is gonna change, not unless something...bloody happens.

It really is.

And that's why my friends say "you're not a fun guy anymore." I can be fun. But it's hard while watching the nation sink. I still love the US. Just not the US government.

In any case, thanks for this little talk we had. Merry Christmas and a happy New Year to you.

[Genivaria]

Its all just so damn depressing. I used to want to go into politics to try and do some good.
Save the sinking ship as it were. But now I'm starting to think that abandoning ship is really the only option left.
Nothing in this country is gonna change, not unless something...bloody happens.

It really is.

And that's why my friends say "you're not a fun guy anymore." I can be fun. But it's hard while watching the nation sink. I still love the US. Just not the US government.

In any case, thanks for this little talk we had. Merry Christmas and a happy New Year to you.

Same to you.

[Sibirsky]

It really is.

And that's why my friends say "you're not a fun guy anymore." I can be fun. But it's hard while watching the nation sink. I still love the US. Just not the US government.

In any case, thanks for this little talk we had. Merry Christmas and a happy New Year to you.

Same to you.

Thank you.

[Grave_n_idle]

Thanks to FDR and his crazy treatment of the Great Depression, 52 million human lives were lost and one third of the world population fell into communist slavery.

Rubbish. The Communist Revolution in Russia preceded the Great Depression by quite a considerable margin - and it's only FDR's policies that stopped that same Revolution spreading in the US - and similar policies in other nations that stopped the revolution spreading there.

Nations that didn't have the same kind of rigourous support network... revolted.

You should try actually reading history, rather than trying to bend it to your ideology.

You actually believe Marx's hateful insanities, nice.

Nothing to do with it. I've actually read history, and I know what happens every time large groups of people get hungry.

I'm somewhat amused that you would ignore thousands of years of the same trends repeating... apparently, because someone talked about it with whom you hold little ideological common-ground.

Charity is way more effective than welfare, because it's not a selfless nor a coerced action.

Charity is not more effective than 'welfare' - by which I have to assume you mean some sort of institutional safety-net. Charity fails all the time.

Yes, you did.

No, I didn't. I've already said that, and my post remains there for anyone to see. You're not just wrong this time, you're actually deliberately lying.

[Grave_n_idle]

this is so wildly at odds with actual history as to be literally insane. you should really stop listening to the liars and morons who are your ideological allies. we can look this shit up.


(the adjusted series counts people employed by the new deal programs as employed, as opposed to the other line)

and, of course, the 1937 recession was caused by a premature round of austerity.

while we're at it, the sooner a country got off the gold standard, the better. and it took until WWII to get the economy fully moving again because the new deal was too small - if your ideas were true then WWII should have caused the total collapse of the economy.

empiricism wins again!

So, double digit unemployment rates are good?

The 1937 austerity measures also including massive tax hikes. How fucking convenient of you to leave that shit out of your argument.

When your original claim is proved - yet again - to be untrue, you shift the goal posts to two previously unmentioned factors instead, and pretend that's the same point?

[Grave_n_idle]

of course not. but remember way back when, where you said that "the New Fucking Deal, caused [unemployment] to go up"? that was what, like 1 post ago? yeah, that's retarded. its good of you to no longer be claiming that, but acting as if you have relevant things to say is sort of laughable after that.


yeah, and? i don't think tax increases will improve the economy. i do think that we have to get them jacked back up to improve equality and efficiency. but if we do so now (and we should), it must be coupled with even more massive direct spending.

Tax hikes right now would be downright idiotic.

If you want to stop increasing a debt, you need to stop spending. If you want to reduce a debt, you have to pay it down.

Cutting costs alone cannot fix our economy. We must also increase revenue. That's basic.


Of course, in reality, we really need to increase costs in the short term. It's an unfortunate reality... but I'll take unfortunate reality over ideology any time.