Pope sued for driving without seat belt

[Ovisterra]

Liberté, égalité, fraternité!

I think you've mistaken Germany for France.

A rather old version of France at that.

[Milks Empire]

The guys bringing it up are Grade A douchebags, but the law is the law regardless of what title His Holiness holds.

[TaQud]

The 11th commandment: thou shall not drive without seat belt

[Mindhar]

Except we have this thing called "diplomatic immunity"

as a german citizen he would have to pay the fine if he were just visiting on vacation, but since he was visiting in the capacity of a foreign head of state, diplomatic immunity applies. presumably dating back to the days when arresting the king of france for rape could cause a war in which thousands of lives would be lost so it was better to just overlook any unfortunate "incidents"... the vatican doesn't technically have a military to speak of but it is still something of a temporal power due to the 1 billion or so catholics out there

Diplomatic Immunity seems silly to me. You're in my country, so why the hell shouldn't you obey the law. It's for everyone, that's why it's called the law.

Well see above.

Let's say Barack Obama makes a state visit to France, unaware for whatever reason that France has a law against black people.

Ignorance of the law is no excuse, so he gets arrested and goes to french jail (did we mention that they also did away with trials?)

US is slightly pissed off at having to put up with Joe Biden for the next year or two, asks France to send him back since he's the president and didn't break any American laws.

France says no dice, he broke the law and has to pay the penalty, and also, your mother was a hamster and your father smells of elderberries.

US gets really pissed off, launches nuclear missiles at France, but misses and hits Russia instead.

Entire human population of Earth is eradicated in subsequent nuclear exchange.

All that could have been avoided if there was diplomatic immunity. Or if every country had the same laws, but that's never going to happen anyway. Or if more people had voted for Ron Paul, like the internets wanted, since he would bring about an anarchist reloveution and reorganise the world as a voluntary-syndicalist commune. But that's beside the point.

You can also just read Ifreann's shorter explanation but I'm much cooler than him.

[Ifreann]

I think you've mistaken Germany for France.

A rather old version of France at that.

I think that's still their motto.

---

Except we have this thing called "diplomatic immunity"

as a german citizen he would have to pay the fine if he were just visiting on vacation, but since he was visiting in the capacity of a foreign head of state, diplomatic immunity applies. presumably dating back to the days when arresting the king of france for rape could cause a war in which thousands of lives would be lost so it was better to just overlook any unfortunate "incidents"... the vatican doesn't technically have a military to speak of but it is still something of a temporal power due to the 1 billion or so catholics out there

Diplomatic Immunity seems silly to me. You're in my country, so why the hell shouldn't you obey the law. It's for everyone, that's why it's called the law.

I think the idea is to stop countries from harassing each other's ambassadors. You don't want them locking up your ambassador, so you agree not to lock up theirs. There's limits to it, I expect.

[Knootoss]

Part of the popes job is to impress the masses. How can he impress the masses if he can not stand up and wave.

Does germany have, in its work laws, exemptions fore BoneFied Occupational Qualifications, like in the US?

Standing upright and waving is an occupational qualification in the United States?

Is this a world-wavering event?

Most of the threads on this forum aren't about world "wavering" events.

On the one hand, he broke the laws of the country he was in.
On the other hand, it's certainly not a crime that harms anyone else as he is not the driver anc therefore cannot lose control of the vehicle should he slide across his seat on a hard turn; he was not arrested or summonsed for it at the time of the infraction, and foreign dignitaries are usually cut a little slack.

Conclusion: perhaps he deserves a fine, but most definitely the lawyer and his client are class A pricks.

Or just classic trolls :>

[Knootoss]

Diplomatic Immunity seems silly to me. You're in my country, so why the hell shouldn't you obey the law. It's for everyone, that's why it's called the law.

I think the idea is to stop countries from harassing each other's ambassadors. You don't want them locking up your ambassador, so you agree not to lock up theirs. There's limits to it, I expect.[/quote]

There are indeed. It's a myth that diplomats cannot get speeding tickets. So why not a ticket for driving without a seatbelt? :>

[Ovisterra]

Diplomatic Immunity seems silly to me. You're in my country, so why the hell shouldn't you obey the law. It's for everyone, that's why it's called the law.

Well see above.

Let's say Barack Obama makes a state visit to France, unaware for whatever reason that France has a law against black people.

Ignorance of the law is no excuse, so he gets arrested and goes to french jail (did we mention that they also did away with trials?)

US is slightly pissed off at having to put up with Joe Biden for the next year or two, asks France to send him back since he's the president and didn't break any American laws.

France says no dice, he broke the law and has to pay the penalty, and also, your mother was a hamster and your father smells of elderberries.

US gets really pissed off, launches nuclear missiles at France, but misses and hits Russia instead.

Entire human population of Earth is eradicated in subsequent nuclear exchange.

All that could have been avoided if there was diplomatic immunity. Or if every country had the same laws, but that's never going to happen anyway. Or if more people had voted for Ron Paul, like the internets wanted, since he would bring about an anarchist reloveution and reorganise the world as a voluntary-syndicalist commune. But that's beside the point.

You can also just read Ifreann's shorter explanation but I'm much cooler than him.

I suppose that makes a certain amount of sense, but meethinks that if France had a law against black people, Obama wouldn't visit. But that's beside the point. Diplomatic Immunity or not, I think the pope should have to obey certain rules that are more for safety than anything else.

[Ifreann]

There are indeed. It's a myth that diplomats cannot get speeding tickets. So why not a ticket for driving without a seatbelt? :>

I see no reason why not generally, but in this case the actual danger involved seems to be minimal, so I wouldn't be surprised if Germany didn't level any fine.

[Knootoss]

There are indeed. It's a myth that diplomats cannot get speeding tickets. So why not a ticket for driving without a seatbelt? :>

I see no reason why not generally, but in this case the actual danger involved seems to be minimal, so I wouldn't be surprised if Germany didn't level any fine.

Neither guilt nor innocence would be world-shatteringly weird. However, fines don't just get levelled because of high levels of danger involved. And you could argue that the pope has to set an example!

[Keronians]

From the Irish Times, or just google for any other news source

Pope falls foul of German hosts by shunning seat belt

DEREK SCALLY in Berlin

A GERMAN citizen has filed a complaint against Pope Benedict XVI for not using a seat belt in the Popemobile during his September visit to his homeland.

Lawyer Johannes Christian Sundermann has filed papers in Dortmund on behalf of his unnamed client, charging the Pope with “repeated breaches” of Germany’s seat belt law.

“Herr Joseph Ratzinger, born 16 April 1927 in Marktl/Altötting” travelled on September 24th and 25th “for the duration of more than an hour” without a seat belt, the lawyer states in documents.

Mr Sundermann and his client say they can prove the repeated misdemeanour during his visit to Freiburg – using videos from YouTube.

The lawyer says his client, though not a Catholic, was concerned for the safety of the Pope in his armoured car, which reportedly has a seat belt though it usually moves at a walking pace. As a repeat seat belt offender, the man believes the Pope should face the maximum €2,500 fine allowed.

Mr Sundermann has asked whether the diocese of Freiburg or the state authorities lifted the seat belt obligation for the pontiff.

To that end, he has cited as witnesses to his case the German prelate Robert Zollitsch, archbishop of Freiburg, and Winfried Kretschmann, state premier of Baden-Württemberg.

A spokesperson for the court in Dortmund confirmed papers had been filed but declined to comment further.

The lawyer, a member of the Left Party, says his case will hinge on whether the Pope still holds German citizenship and whether he enjoyed diplomatic immunity during his visit.

A Bundestag question from 2005 established that, though a citizen of the Vatican since 1981, a special arrangement was in place for Pope Benedict to retain his German passport.

The foreign ministry confirmed yesterday that the Pope, as a visiting head of state, enjoyed diplomatic immunity during his recent stay.

However, a government spokesman suggested that the Pope might not be immune from prosecution if he returned to Germany on a private visit.

In Germany, rules are rules.

I think it's an interesting legal quandary. Since it was an official state visit by a foreign Head of State, you'd expect there to be diplomatic immunity. On the other hand, the pope is still a citizen of Germany and he didn't break German law as an integral part of his duties of pope. So... I think a fine is in order!

Do you think the Pope should be convicted?

The Pope is not a German citizen...

Wouldn't the Pope be a citizen of the Vatican City?

[Caninope]

The Pope is not a German citizen...

Wouldn't the Pope be a citizen of the Vatican City?

Dual citizenship.

[Keronians]

The Pope is not a German citizen...

Wouldn't the Pope be a citizen of the Vatican City?

Dual citizenship.

Ah.

Still, isn't he immune as a head of state?

[Ifreann]

The Pope is not a German citizen...

I don't think that matters.

Wouldn't the Pope be a citizen of the Vatican City?

Maybe. I imagine he's still Austrian. I think he was Austrian, any way.

[Greed and Death]

This man has standing to enforce German Seat belt laws ???

The German legal system is weird.

[Syvorskji]

Liberté, égalité, fraternité!

I think you've mistaken Germany for France.

Basicly not, I want to point out that even the pope, one of the mightiest religious people, must obey a country's laws.

[Caninope]

I think you've mistaken Germany for France.

Basicly not, I want to point out that even the pope, one of the mightiest religious people, must obey a country's laws.

He's a Head of State. He's got diplomatic immunity.

[Lackadaisical2]

Conclusion: perhaps he deserves a fine, but most definitely the lawyer and his client are class A pricks.

An astute observation to be sure, I mean, really? Trying to get the pope fined for something so trivial? It just screams to me someone who has a beef with Catholicism.

[West Vandengaarde]

Conclusion: perhaps he deserves a fine, but most definitely the lawyer and his client are class A pricks.

An astute observation to be sure, I mean, really? Trying to get the pope fined for something so trivial? It just screams to me someone who has a beef with Catholicism.

Just like most of the people in this thread! Maybe there's a high percentage of angry Germans here...

[Ifreann]

An astute observation to be sure, I mean, really? Trying to get the pope fined for something so trivial? It just screams to me someone who has a beef with Catholicism.

Just like most of the people in this thread!...

Of course we do.

[Lackadaisical2]

An astute observation to be sure, I mean, really? Trying to get the pope fined for something so trivial? It just screams to me someone who has a beef with Catholicism.

Just like most of the people in this thread! Maybe there's a high percentage of angry Germans here...

Its one thing to say he deserves the fine, another to hire a lawyer because you haven't anything better to do but make sure the Pope is wearing his seatbelt.

[Ethel mermania]

Part of the popes job is to impress the masses. How can he impress the masses if he can not stand up and wave.

Does germany have, in its work laws, exemptions fore BoneFied Occupational Qualifications, like in the US?

Standing upright and waving is an occupational qualification in the United States

Can you tell me any other talents our politicans might have?

[Ifreann]

This man has standing to enforce German Seat belt laws ???

The German legal system is weird.

I don't think you need standing to make a complaint about someone breaking the law.

[Idealismania]

I don't want to get off topic or sound obnoxious, but whenever I hear a story like this, the first thing I think of is an angry atheist stewing about religion and life in general and trying to think up a way to attack religion in any way possible, and this is what he came up with.

[Great Nepal]

He should be stoned to death for such blasphemy!