Pope sued for driving without seat belt

[Knootoss]

From the Irish Times, or just google for any other news source

Pope falls foul of German hosts by shunning seat belt

DEREK SCALLY in Berlin

A GERMAN citizen has filed a complaint against Pope Benedict XVI for not using a seat belt in the Popemobile during his September visit to his homeland.

Lawyer Johannes Christian Sundermann has filed papers in Dortmund on behalf of his unnamed client, charging the Pope with “repeated breaches” of Germany’s seat belt law.

“Herr Joseph Ratzinger, born 16 April 1927 in Marktl/Altötting” travelled on September 24th and 25th “for the duration of more than an hour” without a seat belt, the lawyer states in documents.

Mr Sundermann and his client say they can prove the repeated misdemeanour during his visit to Freiburg – using videos from YouTube.

The lawyer says his client, though not a Catholic, was concerned for the safety of the Pope in his armoured car, which reportedly has a seat belt though it usually moves at a walking pace. As a repeat seat belt offender, the man believes the Pope should face the maximum €2,500 fine allowed.

Mr Sundermann has asked whether the diocese of Freiburg or the state authorities lifted the seat belt obligation for the pontiff.

To that end, he has cited as witnesses to his case the German prelate Robert Zollitsch, archbishop of Freiburg, and Winfried Kretschmann, state premier of Baden-Württemberg.

A spokesperson for the court in Dortmund confirmed papers had been filed but declined to comment further.

The lawyer, a member of the Left Party, says his case will hinge on whether the Pope still holds German citizenship and whether he enjoyed diplomatic immunity during his visit.

A Bundestag question from 2005 established that, though a citizen of the Vatican since 1981, a special arrangement was in place for Pope Benedict to retain his German passport.

The foreign ministry confirmed yesterday that the Pope, as a visiting head of state, enjoyed diplomatic immunity during his recent stay.

However, a government spokesman suggested that the Pope might not be immune from prosecution if he returned to Germany on a private visit.

In Germany, rules are rules.

I think it's an interesting legal quandary. Since it was an official state visit by a foreign Head of State, you'd expect there to be diplomatic immunity. On the other hand, the pope is still a citizen of Germany and he didn't break German law as an integral part of his duties of pope. So... I think a fine is in order!

Do you think the Pope should be convicted?

[The Soviet Technocracy]

Seat belt laws are stupid.

Germany should be fined for having them.

They should be considered a violation of human rights.

[Tubbsalot]

I'd say the complainant* should remember a little thing called the 'spirit of the law.' If you ignore the spirit of the law, it will haunt the shit out of you.

*is this a word

[Knootoss]

I'd say the complainant* should remember a little thing called the 'spirit of the law.' If you ignore the spirit of the law, it will haunt the shit out of you.

*is this a word

How is not wearing seat belts in keeping with the spirit of a law that says you have to wear them?

[Unchecked Expansion]

Seat belt laws are stupid.

Germany should be fined for having them.

They should be considered a violation of human rights.

Not wearing a seatbelt is a violation of other peoples rights. Namely, their right not to have you smash into them at high velocity in the event of a car crash.

[Angleter]

He's a foreign Head of State, so no. Not to mention how seatbelt laws really aren't going to be all that paramount in the case of an extremely slowly-moving Popemobile on a sealed-off road- the Sabbath being made for men, not men for the Sabbath, etc.

[Syvorskji]

Liberté, égalité, fraternité!

[Ashmoria]

there are no parades in germany that use motorized vehicles to slowly transport unbelted paraders?

[Tubbsalot]

Because, as the article mentioned, the popemobile travels about as fast as a child with no limbs. Seatbelt laws exist to ensure the safety of drivers, passengers, and other travellers who may be inconvenienced by your flying corpse. Those aren't a concern in this case.

edit: thanks, four people who posted, for managing to sneak in there on the one time i didn't quote the person i replied to

[Seibertron]

Well serves him right

[The Soviet Technocracy]

Seat belt laws are stupid.

Germany should be fined for having them.

They should be considered a violation of human rights.

Not wearing a seatbelt is a violation of other peoples rights. Namely, their right not to have you smash into them at high velocity in the event of a car crash.

Not at all.

I prefer the New Hampshire approach. Live free or die. Literally.

[Artoonia]

The utter BS of seat belt laws aside, a private citizen should not have standing to sue an individual under them.

Did anyone else LOL at TFA's line "In Germany, rules are rules"? I'm pretty sure they said that at Nuremburg ...

[Ethel mermania]

Part of the popes job is to impress the masses. How can he impress the masses if he can not stand up and wave.

Does germany have, in its work laws, exemptions fore BoneFied Occupational Qualifications, like in the US?

[Metanih]

So i read this article, and two things stood out to me.
1) I think a fine is in order. Seat belt laws are for safety, and should not be casually ignored.
2) His car is seriously the "Popemobile?"

[Mindhar]

The lawyer, a member of the Left Party, says his case will hinge on whether the Pope still holds German citizenship and whether he enjoyed diplomatic immunity during his visit.

...

The foreign ministry confirmed yesterday that the Pope, as a visiting head of state, enjoyed diplomatic immunity during his recent stay.

Sounds like the situation kind of resolved itself really

That said, this is almost as good a publicity stunt as sneaking a de-baptismal blow dryer into the Pope's bathroom, which I'm still planning to do sometime

[Communist Finland]

Is this a world-wavering event?

[Katganistan]

From the Irish Times, or just google for any other news source

Pope falls foul of German hosts by shunning seat belt

DEREK SCALLY in Berlin

A GERMAN citizen has filed a complaint against Pope Benedict XVI for not using a seat belt in the Popemobile during his September visit to his homeland.

Lawyer Johannes Christian Sundermann has filed papers in Dortmund on behalf of his unnamed client, charging the Pope with “repeated breaches” of Germany’s seat belt law.

“Herr Joseph Ratzinger, born 16 April 1927 in Marktl/Altötting” travelled on September 24th and 25th “for the duration of more than an hour” without a seat belt, the lawyer states in documents.

Mr Sundermann and his client say they can prove the repeated misdemeanour during his visit to Freiburg – using videos from YouTube.

The lawyer says his client, though not a Catholic, was concerned for the safety of the Pope in his armoured car, which reportedly has a seat belt though it usually moves at a walking pace. As a repeat seat belt offender, the man believes the Pope should face the maximum €2,500 fine allowed.

Mr Sundermann has asked whether the diocese of Freiburg or the state authorities lifted the seat belt obligation for the pontiff.

To that end, he has cited as witnesses to his case the German prelate Robert Zollitsch, archbishop of Freiburg, and Winfried Kretschmann, state premier of Baden-Württemberg.

A spokesperson for the court in Dortmund confirmed papers had been filed but declined to comment further.

The lawyer, a member of the Left Party, says his case will hinge on whether the Pope still holds German citizenship and whether he enjoyed diplomatic immunity during his visit.

A Bundestag question from 2005 established that, though a citizen of the Vatican since 1981, a special arrangement was in place for Pope Benedict to retain his German passport.

The foreign ministry confirmed yesterday that the Pope, as a visiting head of state, enjoyed diplomatic immunity during his recent stay.

However, a government spokesman suggested that the Pope might not be immune from prosecution if he returned to Germany on a private visit.

In Germany, rules are rules.

I think it's an interesting legal quandary. Since it was an official state visit by a foreign Head of State, you'd expect there to be diplomatic immunity. On the other hand, the pope is still a citizen of Germany and he didn't break German law as an integral part of his duties of pope. So... I think a fine is in order!

Do you think the Pope should be convicted?

On the one hand, he broke the laws of the country he was in.
On the other hand, it's certainly not a crime that harms anyone else as he is not the driver anc therefore cannot lose control of the vehicle should he slide across his seat on a hard turn; he was not arrested or summonsed for it at the time of the infraction, and foreign dignitaries are usually cut a little slack.

Conclusion: perhaps he deserves a fine, but most definitely the lawyer and his client are class A pricks.

[Ovisterra]

Hell yeah! Just cause he's pope doesn't mean he shouldn't have to uphold the law like the common man/woman. Fine him!

[The Soviet Technocracy]

So i read this article, and two things stood out to me.
1) I think a fine is in order. Seat belt laws are for safety, and should not be casually ignored.
2) His car is seriously the "Popemobile?"

1) He's the Pope. Besides, he'd have sooner broke his skull on the glass than the glass breaking on him. That stuff is bullet resistant don'tchaknow.

2) Yes, it is.

[Mindhar]

Hell yeah! Just cause he's pope doesn't mean he shouldn't have to uphold the law like the common man/woman. Fine him!

Except we have this thing called "diplomatic immunity"

as a german citizen he would have to pay the fine if he were just visiting on vacation, but since he was visiting in the capacity of a foreign head of state, diplomatic immunity applies. presumably dating back to the days when arresting the king of france for rape could cause a war in which thousands of lives would be lost so it was better to just overlook any unfortunate "incidents"... the vatican doesn't technically have a military to speak of but it is still something of a temporal power due to the 1 billion or so catholics out there

[Osterveim]

I'd say the complainant* should remember a little thing called the 'spirit of the law.' If you ignore the spirit of the law, it will haunt the shit out of you.

*is this a word

^This, basically.

[Katganistan]

I'd say the complainant* should remember a little thing called the 'spirit of the law.' If you ignore the spirit of the law, it will haunt the shit out of you.

*is this a word

^This, basically.

Is complainant a word?

[Ovisterra]

Hell yeah! Just cause he's pope doesn't mean he shouldn't have to uphold the law like the common man/woman. Fine him!

Except we have this thing called "diplomatic immunity"

as a german citizen he would have to pay the fine if he were just visiting on vacation, but since he was visiting in the capacity of a foreign head of state, diplomatic immunity applies. presumably dating back to the days when arresting the king of france for rape could cause a war in which thousands of lives would be lost so it was better to just overlook any unfortunate "incidents"... the vatican doesn't technically have a military to speak of but it is still something of a temporal power due to the 1 billion or so catholics out there

Diplomatic Immunity seems silly to me. You're in my country, so why the hell shouldn't you obey the law. It's for everyone, that's why it's called the law.

[Ovisterra]

-snip-

I think it's an interesting legal quandary. Since it was an official state visit by a foreign Head of State, you'd expect there to be diplomatic immunity. On the other hand, the pope is still a citizen of Germany and he didn't break German law as an integral part of his duties of pope. So... I think a fine is in order!

Do you think the Pope should be convicted?

On the one hand, he broke the laws of the country he was in.
On the other hand, it's certainly not a crime that harms anyone else as he is not the driver anc therefore cannot lose control of the vehicle should he slide across his seat on a hard turn; he was not arrested or summonsed for it at the time of the infraction, and foreign dignitaries are usually cut a little slack.

Conclusion: perhaps he deserves a fine, but most definitely the lawyer and his client are class A pricks. trolls

Fixed

[Ifreann]

Liberté, égalité, fraternité!

I think you've mistaken Germany for France.