US Congress Declares "Pizza Is A Vegetable"

[Risottia]

Well, since i'm Italian i know the difference between that thing you call "pizza" and my NEAPOLITAN ORIGINAL WITH MOZZARELLA DOC PIZZA, but still it's a victory over hamburgers. Now i still have to see a good one of those.

Mozzarella "DOC"? Maybe you mean "Mozzarella di Bufala Campana DOP".
"DOC" is for WINES... if your mozzarella has become "DOC" it means it's so old it has fermented!

[Ifreann]

2. Wow, that deserved all congress attention.

Of course it did, it was about an agriculture department spending bill.

[Ifreann]

Well, since i'm Italian i know the difference between that thing you call "pizza" and my NEAPOLITAN ORIGINAL WITH MOZZARELLA DOC PIZZA, but still it's a victory over hamburgers. Now i still have to see a good one of those.

Mozzarella "DOC"? Maybe you mean "Mozzarella di Bufala Campana DOP".
"DOC" is for WINES... if your mozzarella has become "DOC" it means it's so old it has fermented!

The notion of pizza based wine intrigues me. Maybe Italy should consider it as a possible export.

[Ifreann]

It's apparently quite tasty, not that I really want to try it. It really depends on the variety of tomato.

Can't the tomato be both a fruit and a vegetable, depending on use?

I wouldn't say so. Generally, in cuisine a plant part is either "fruit" or "vegetable" according to how much sweet it tastes. Tomatoes can be sweet, but not remotely as sweet as a pear, or an apricot.
Then again, we're talking cuisine, not science.

Cuisine is science for hungry people.

[Consaria]

The issue is that if pizza (Or any other tasty but unhealthy food) is removed for these proposed "healthy" options, no kid is going to eat lunch at their school cafeteria. Declaring pizza a vegetable is just a way to get around an impractical regulation.

[Ifreann]

The issue is that if pizza (Or any other tasty but unhealthy food) is removed for these proposed "healthy" options, no kid is going to eat lunch at their school cafeteria. Declaring pizza a vegetable is just a way to get around an impractical regulation.

Nobody said anything about removing pizza from lunch menus, just requiring that it have over 1/4 cup of tomato paste per slice in order for schools to count it as a vegetable serving. Are kids going to walk out of cafeterias en masse if there's slightly more tomato paste on their pizzas?

[Lordieth]

Is this really a good example to be setting? Children shouldn't consider Pizza as a vegetable serving, and nor should parents. Any benefits of that 'vegetable' are dwarfed by the unhealthy aspects of the pizza. You wouldn't consider a Big Mac healthy for having relish and a slice of pickle in it, and the last thing America (and the UK) needs is a precedent to peddle junk as one of your '5 a day'.

[Cromarty]

The best thing I ever ate in Italy was some rissoto I had in Turino.

Careful, a couple of misplaced letters and you could've caused a Silvio-esque scandal for our very own Risottia.

[Ifreann]

Is this really a good example to be setting? Children shouldn't consider Pizza as a vegetable serving, and nor should parents. Any benefits of that 'vegetable' are dwarfed by the unhealthy aspects of the pizza. You wouldn't consider a Big Mac healthy for having relish and a slice of pickle in it, and the last thing America (and the UK) needs is a precedent to peddle junk as one of your '5 a day'.

It doesn't seem that the USDA has any room for setting examples when they can't even pass a small change to make pizza more vegetable-y.

[New Chalcedon]

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/national_world/2011/11/18/pizza-a-vegetable-your-government-says-so.html

I am really at a loss for words on this. No, the US Congress didn't actually declare pizza a vegetable, but the serving of tomato sauce on a pizza should be considered a vegetable. I'm probably not going to mention to my Congressman and Senators that tomatoes are actually a fruit. As stated in New York Times, the tomato sauce could be counted as a vegetable if more than 1/4 of a cup of tomato sauce was used on the slice.

The rules, proposed last January, would have cut the amount of potatoes served and would have changed the way schools received credit for serving vegetables by continuing to count tomato paste on a slice of pizza only if more than a quarter-cup of it was used. The rules would have also halved the amount of sodium in school meals over the next 10 years.

But late Monday, lawmakers drafting a House and Senate compromise for the agriculture spending bill blocked the department from using money to carry out any of the proposed rules.

-NEW YORK TIMES

Apparently, this was spurred on by lobbyists and special interest groups as mentioned above in the NYT article:

In a statement, the Agriculture Department expressed its disappointment with the decision.

“While it is unfortunate that some in Congress chose to bow to special interests, U.S.D.A. remains committed to practical, science-based standards for school meals that improve the health of our children,” the department said in the statement.

Food companies including ConAgra, Coca-Cola, Del Monte Foods and makers of frozen pizza like Schwan argued that the proposed rules would raise the cost of meals and require food that many children would throw away.

The companies called the Congressional response reasonable, adding that the Agriculture Department went too far in trying to improve nutrition in school lunches.

“This is an important step for the school districts, parents and taxpayers who would shoulder the burden of U.S.D.A.’s proposed $6.8 billion school meal regulation that will not increase the delivery of key nutrients,” said John Keeling, executive vice president and chief executive of the National Potato Council.

The Agriculture Department had estimated that the proposal would have cost about $6.8 billion over the next five years, adding about 14 cents a meal to the cost of a school lunch.

Corey Henry, a spokesman for the American Frozen Food Institute, said the proposed rules simply did not make sense, especially when it came to pizza.

The industry backs the current rules which say that about a quarter-cup of tomato paste on a slice of pizza can count as a vegetable serving. The Agriculture Department proposal would have required that schools serve more tomato paste per piece of pizza to get a vegetable credit, an idea the industry thought would make pizza unappetizing.

Is this how we combat childhood obesity? By defining tomato as a vegetable (a gimmick that the Reagan Administration was unsuccessful at doing) because we want to continue to serve Pizza in the school cafeteria? Aren't there ways that we can teach children how to eat properly without the ConAgra folks lobbying Congress to define what is and what isn't a vegetable? And shouldn't we be fearing an educational system that counts Tomatoes as a vegetable when it is a fruit?

While your larger point is well-taken, I must point out some things:

(1) When they say "tomato sauce", I presume they are referring to tomato paste, rather than what Americans call ketchup, yes? That stuff's nearly pure tomato, as a rule, with only minor additions such as salt and seasonings.

(2) Dietarily, a tomato is indeed a vegetable. Scientifically, it's a fruit. Given that we're talking about dietary requirements here.....

Overall, this is not as stupid as it appears to be at first blush. While I hold that Congress has better things to do with its time, and further hold that the presence of (dietary) vegetables within a food does not necessarily mean that said food is healthy (and hence disapprove of the exercise, as your typical low-budget pizza is not going to be the healthiest food out there by a long shot), this is not quite entirely idiotic.

[Iuuvic]

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/national_world/2011/11/18/pizza-a-vegetable-your-government-says-so.html

I am really at a loss for words on this. No, the US Congress didn't actually declare pizza a vegetable, but the serving of tomato sauce on a pizza should be considered a vegetable. I'm probably not going to mention to my Congressman and Senators that tomatoes are actually a fruit. As stated in New York Times, the tomato sauce could be counted as a vegetable if more than 1/4 of a cup of tomato sauce was used on the slice.



Apparently, this was spurred on by lobbyists and special interest groups as mentioned above in the NYT article:



Is this how we combat childhood obesity? By defining tomato as a vegetable (a gimmick that the Reagan Administration was unsuccessful at doing) because we want to continue to serve Pizza in the school cafeteria? Aren't there ways that we can teach children how to eat properly without the ConAgra folks lobbying Congress to define what is and what isn't a vegetable? And shouldn't we be fearing an educational system that counts Tomatoes as a vegetable when it is a fruit?

While your larger point is well-taken, I must point out some things:

(1) When they say "tomato sauce", I presume they are referring to tomato paste, rather than what Americans call ketchup, yes? That stuff's nearly pure tomato, as a rule, with only minor additions such as salt and seasonings.

(2) Dietarily, a tomato is indeed a vegetable. Scientifically, it's a fruit. Given that we're talking about dietary requirements here.....

Overall, this is not as stupid as it appears to be at first blush. While I hold that Congress has better things to do with its time, and further hold that the presence of (dietary) vegetables within a food does not necessarily mean that said food is healthy (and hence disapprove of the exercise, as your typical low-budget pizza is not going to be the healthiest food out there by a long shot), this is not quite entirely idiotic.

Well...Unless they actually mean sauce and not paste. Pizza sauce probably, which is even worse than just a pasta sauce.

[Lordieth]

Is this really a good example to be setting? Children shouldn't consider Pizza as a vegetable serving, and nor should parents. Any benefits of that 'vegetable' are dwarfed by the unhealthy aspects of the pizza. You wouldn't consider a Big Mac healthy for having relish and a slice of pickle in it, and the last thing America (and the UK) needs is a precedent to peddle junk as one of your '5 a day'.

It doesn't seem that the USDA has any room for setting examples when they can't even pass a small change to make pizza more vegetable-y.

Slapping more vegetable content on an unhealthy food to pass such a primitive benchmark seems a terribly flawed system to promote healthier eating.

[Risottia]

The best thing I ever ate in Italy was some rissoto I had in Turino.

Careful, a couple of misplaced letters and you could've caused a Silvio-esque scandal for our very own Risottia.

You know me.

[Dakini]

^this. Vegetable has no biological definition - its a culinary term. Tomatoes are used in cooking as vegetables, not fruits. Would you put a tomato in a fruit salad?

If it's a fresh tomato from the garden, I totally would.

Also, I totally sub out tomatoes with raisins or grapes in regular salads.

Granted, I also think that pizza can be healthy. If often isn't, but it can be. I wouldn't count tomato sauce as a vegetable/fruit serving though, since it has more than just tomatoes in it (and probably there's less than a serving of tomato on a slice of pizza). If the pizza is loaded in other veggies though, by all means.

[Dakini]

The best thing I ever ate in Italy was some rissoto I had in Turino.

I had pizza in Iseo.

I still remember how delicious it was and this was pizza I ate more than 10 years ago.

[Newmoonrising]

I am really at a loss for words on this. No, the US Congress didn't actually declare pizza a vegetable, but the serving of tomato sauce on a pizza should be considered a vegetable. I'm probably not going to mention to my Congressman and Senators that tomatoes are actually a fruit.
...By defining tomato as a vegetable

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetable
The noun vegetable usually means an edible plant or part of a plant other than a sweet fruit or seed.
However, the word is not scientific, and its meaning is largely based on culinary and cultural tradition.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruit
In non-technical usage, such as food preparation, fruit normally means the fleshy seed-associated structures of certain plants that are sweet and edible in the raw state, such as apples, oranges, grapes, strawberries, juniper berries and bananas. Seed-associated structures that do not fit these informal criteria are usually called by other names, such as vegetables, pods, nut, ears and cones.

Also:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/vegetable (noun)
1: plant 1b

tl;dr Tomatoes are vegetables.

But tomatoes edible in a raw state.

[Vessemia]

YES!!!

As a Brooklynite, that is all I can say, as we've known this for years.

[Dakini]

(1) When they say "tomato sauce", I presume they are referring to tomato paste, rather than what Americans call ketchup, yes? That stuff's nearly pure tomato, as a rule, with only minor additions such as salt and seasonings.

If you're using tomato paste as sauce for your pizza, you're doing it wrong. Sauce should be thinner than tomato paste and usually it has extra ingredients (think more like the sauce you'd put on spaghetti, but a bit different).

[Risottia]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetable
The noun vegetable usually means an edible plant or part of a plant other than a sweet fruit or seed.
However, the word is not scientific, and its meaning is largely based on culinary and cultural tradition.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruit
In non-technical usage, such as food preparation, fruit normally means the fleshy seed-associated structures of certain plants that are sweet and edible in the raw state, such as apples, oranges, grapes, strawberries, juniper berries and bananas. Seed-associated structures that do not fit these informal criteria are usually called by other names, such as vegetables, pods, nut, ears and cones.

Also:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/vegetable (noun)
1: plant 1b

tl;dr Tomatoes are vegetables.

But tomatoes edible in a raw state.

So is lettuce, so are carrots.

[Dakini]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetable
The noun vegetable usually means an edible plant or part of a plant other than a sweet fruit or seed.
However, the word is not scientific, and its meaning is largely based on culinary and cultural tradition.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruit
In non-technical usage, such as food preparation, fruit normally means the fleshy seed-associated structures of certain plants that are sweet and edible in the raw state, such as apples, oranges, grapes, strawberries, juniper berries and bananas. Seed-associated structures that do not fit these informal criteria are usually called by other names, such as vegetables, pods, nut, ears and cones.

Also:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/vegetable (noun)
1: plant 1b

tl;dr Tomatoes are vegetables.

But tomatoes edible in a raw state.

So are celery, broccoli, cauliflower, spinach... lots of vegetables are edible in their raw state.

Damn ninjas.

[Vessemia]

Botanically Tomato's are fruit. Culinary wise, they are treated as a vegetable.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomato#Fru ... getable.3F

Well, actually, to be botanically accurate, tomatoes (not "Tomato's") are berries... and bananas AREN'T fruit (as they contain no seeds... they're parthenocarps).

The definition of "vegetable" is exclusively culinary - and the culinary definition of "fruit" isn't the biological one; also the biological definition classifies tomatoes as "plant", not "vegetables" - which isn't a biological term. So, really, I don't see the point of bringing up biology when talking about culinary terms.

Theydo cntain seeds. Most of the ones sold in stores do not, but naturally they have tiny black seeds in the fruit. I've seen it.

[Dakini]

Well, actually, to be botanically accurate, tomatoes (not "Tomato's") are berries... and bananas AREN'T fruit (as they contain no seeds... they're parthenocarps).

The definition of "vegetable" is exclusively culinary - and the culinary definition of "fruit" isn't the biological one; also the biological definition classifies tomatoes as "plant", not "vegetables" - which isn't a biological term. So, really, I don't see the point of bringing up biology when talking about culinary terms.

Theydo cntain seeds. Most of the ones sold in stores do not, but naturally they have tiny black seeds in the fruit. I've seen it.

No, they have giant seeds:



That's why bananas we eat are produced without seeds and propagated by cutting.

[Risottia]

So are celery, broccoli, cauliflower, spinach... lots of vegetables are edible in their raw state.

I'm expecially fond of a salad of raw carrots, boiled beetroot and raw zucchini julienne.

Damn veggie ninjas.

There's an app for that.
http://forums.toucharcade.com/showthread.php?t=60012

[Dakini]

So are celery, broccoli, cauliflower, spinach... lots of vegetables are edible in their raw state.

I'm expecially fond of a salad of raw carrots, boiled beetroot and raw zucchini julienne.

That sounds pretty tasty. What kind of dressing do you put on it?

Damn veggie ninjas.

There's an app for that.
http://forums.toucharcade.com/showthread.php?t=60012

My supervisor has that on his phone. It's definitely fun.

[Risottia]

Theydo cntain seeds. Most of the ones sold in stores do not, but naturally they have tiny black seeds in the fruit. I've seen it.

That's called "plantain banana" iirc, to differentiate it from the "dessert" banana.