Stop expecting others to take care of you.

[Niicha]

My question must have gotten lost in this 12+ thread.

Hiddenrun, given your economic views that individuals should be responsible for their own fiscal lives with no government interference, do you advocate the same for civil rights issues? Ex. Legalizing drugs, gay marriage, anything that let's people rise and fall based on their own merits

No. I'm only discussing fiscal matters.

So basically, you claim that the Government should not be allowed to interfere in services and tax people to pay for these services, yet fully support the Government being allowed to restrict gay marriage.

In short-hand: a hypocrite.

No, I said I'm not following your hijack. I am only discussing fiscal matters in this thread. When reading comprehension escapes you, try reading things over again.

I apologize if it seemed as if my question was meant to hijack this thread. It was not. I explain why I brought up such matters in my last post.

[Czardas]

Hiddenrun, you still haven't explained how private health insurance differs from a national health service in terms of coercion.

Does the amount you've paid in premiums exceed the amount the insurance company has paid to cover your health costs? Yes? Well, guess what -- your money is being used to pay for other people's medical care.

[Neo Art]

If you can't afford it, you shouldn't have it.

What's so special about money, that it gets to override life?

Hiddenrun has it.

He's got his. That's where his concern ends.

And like virtually everyone else in his position, he will continue to hold this belief, until he needs it.

The ones protesting the bread lines today, will be the first in line tomorrow.

[RoI2]

Congratulations, you have now proven that you have no experience with or knowledge of insurance companies.

Ha, what field do you think I work in?

You people kill me

Considering your naïveté , I think you don't work in any industry. I think you live in your mom's basement.

Fixed.



Sorry man, but - how many times has that been done to me?

[Neo Art]

Oh, I've already heard of the fearsome powers of Neo Art, uber lawyer! Let the earth tremble at your passing, and let stray dogs howl your name as your shadow slithers by!

And this is where you avoid answering the question.

More problems are caused by people either refusing to get insurance, or not understanding their responsibilities or coverage under an insurance contract than are caused by shifty dealings in the industry itself.

And this is where you lie.

Typical. So very fucking typical. Are you truly incapable of better?

[Hydesland]

One of the ways we can introduce competition is by including a public option. Many countries have successfully combined public and private health insurance to keep costs low without driving health insurance providers out of business. We just need to cure people of their kneejerk response to "socialism."

Agreed. What you've presented to me is no different from other businesses though: monopolising and lack of competition is driving up costs (although I think you're link was being over-dramatic, profit margins are still small in relation to what the bulk of the premium is for, to protect the company from bankruptcy), so I don't think it's fair to target insurance as a concept as being flawed any more than any other business concept, insurance is actually a very useful industry to have.

[Poliwanacraca]

I do hope you're joking.

I'm not. Engineers really don't get hit by an economic crisis, if ever. Some people who have done something to upset management or travel under the radar do get laid off. But the profession as a whole does not suffer because it is a profession which is always in demand due to the arduous process of becoming an engineer.

....oh dear god. There's so much wrong with this I don't even know where to begin.

But let's just lay out a little scenario for you. Imagine a company that designs and builds equipment for about five manufacturing companies. This company employs about 20 engineers. An economic crisis comes along. One of the client companies goes out of business. Two more cancel their plans for new factories until the economic situation gets better. Our company is now taking in approximately 40% of the income it was making six months earlier. What do you think they do next?

(a) Magically keep paying all their engineers the same amount they always have, despite no longer having a source for that money and not having enough work for all 20 engineers to have anything to do.
(b) Lay off half the engineers so that they can continue paying the other half and hope that maybe they'll be able to keep the company afloat.

Now, if they go with option B, what traits do you think these engineers will have in common?

(a) They're all AWFUL at their jobs.
(b) They're all older or in poorer health (and thus costing the company a bit more in insurance), and they do not include the guy dating the boss's sister or the guy who plays golf with the boss every Sunday.

See if you can figure out which answers happen in the real world!

[North Suran]

And this is where you lie.

Typical. So very fucking typical.

The man has a photo of Ronald mo'fuckin' Reagan for his flag.

What did you expect?

[Ourobora]

nope, you want to claim that insurance companies don't have a vested intrest in making a profit?

Private insurance companies are for profit. What is your point? This does not change the fact that you have exactly the coverage provided for in your contract.

Sure you do - so long as you can actually get a contract. Can't see many students affording comprehensive medical insurance when they're struggling to eat.

[DaWoad]

nope, you want to claim that insurance companies don't have a vested intrest in making a profit?

Private insurance companies are for profit. What is your point? This does not change the fact that you have exactly the coverage provided for in your contract.

Sure you do - so long as you can actually get a contract. Can't see many students affording comprehensive medical insurance when they're struggling to eat.

here here

[Neo Art]

And this is where you lie.

Typical. So very fucking typical.

The man has a photo of Ronald mo'fuckin' Reagan for his flag.

What did you expect?

There is a difference between hopes and expectations. I hoped for so much more. I got exactly what i expected.

[Hiddenrun]

nope, you want to claim that insurance companies don't have a vested intrest in making a profit?

Private insurance companies are for profit. What is your point? This does not change the fact that you have exactly the coverage provided for in your contract.

You have obviously never tried to claim what is due to you.

Grade F for not even trying.....

Yes. I failed to make a successful claim on my flood insurance last spring. I was unable to get my insurance company to pay for the clean up and the refurbishing as covered in my contract.

I also failed to successfully claim on my auto insurance when my wife rolled the car. My medical coverage did not allow her access to all the proper treatment when she broke her collerbone. I also failed to get my son braces under my employment insurance, etc etc etc.

Oh wait. No, I got all that. Crazy!

[Czardas]

If you can't afford it, you shouldn't have it.

What's so special about money, that it gets to override life?

Life is generally valued at about $5 million. That's how much one is generally willing to pay for safety or for lifesaving medical procedures. (source: that one New York Times Magazine article on rationed health insurance, a couple of months ago) If you have more than $5 million, you can afford to kill people. I mean, theoretically.

[Kamsaki]

Ha, what field do you think I work in?

Doesn't this admission immediately throw anything you have to say on the subject of the legitimacy of national insurance into disrepute? I can see why you waited 300 posts to make it.

[Antilon]

More problems are caused by people either refusing to get insurance, or not understanding their responsibilities or coverage under an insurance contract than are caused by shifty dealings in the industry itself. Most of the people crying about insurance either have none, or didn't bother to look into what they were getting. Rather like the fools who hand over their money to investment brokers and don't check back in.

Surely the two can't be related.

[Non Aligned States]

I like how you cut out where I said, "and if you aren't, you should bank elsewhere".

Ahh, the "you can always go elsewhere" idiocy. In a near damn monopoly of banks following a mess of mergers last decade. Maybe you'll tell me to "found your own bank" next.

But continue going out of your way not to find your own solutions.

My first idealized solution would probably involve clubbing you in the head for being such a git.

My second solution would probably involve stripping everything you own from you and reducing you to a ground state of being, and watching you try to "find your own solutions". I'd probably sell tickets to the viewing to NSG, and retire rich.

Stress relieving, but not very practical.

[Minnas]

And this is where you lie.

Typical. So very fucking typical.

The man has a photo of Ronald mo'fuckin' Reagan for his flag.

What did you expect?

There is a difference between hopes and expectations. I hoped for so much more. I got exactly what i expected.

How long have you been a member of NSG? I think you should've expected this. And knowing this poster's history... Come on NA, you're smart.

[DaWoad]

I do hope you're joking.

I'm not. Engineers really don't get hit by an economic crisis, if ever. Some people who have done something to upset management or travel under the radar do get laid off. But the profession as a whole does not suffer because it is a profession which is always in demand due to the arduous process of becoming an engineer.

....oh dear god. There's so much wrong with this I don't even know where to begin.

But let's just lay out a little scenario for you. Imagine a company that designs and builds equipment for about five manufacturing companies. This company employs about 20 engineers. An economic crisis comes along. One of the client companies goes out of business. Two more cancel their plans for new factories until the economic situation gets better. Our company is now taking in approximately 40% of the income it was making six months earlier. What do you think they do next?

(a) Magically keep paying all their engineers the same amount they always have, despite no longer having a source for that money and not having enough work for all 20 engineers to have anything to do.
(b) Lay off half the engineers so that they can continue paying the other half and hope that maybe they'll be able to keep the company afloat.

Now, if they go with option B, what traits do you think these engineers will have in common?

(a) They're all AWFUL at their jobs.
(b) They're all older or in poorer health (and thus costing the company a bit more in insurance), and they do not include the guy dating the boss's sister or the guy who plays golf with the boss every Sunday.They make more.

See if you can figure out which answers happen in the real world!

edited.

[Hiddenrun]

Pointing out your blatant hypocrisy in being against Government intervention in fiscal matters yet fully supporting Government intervention in civil matters is not a "hijack".

Claiming that I support Government intervention in civil matters when I have said no such thing is. Take your lies elsewhere. This topic is fiscal.

[Hydesland]

[
No, what insurance companies ACTUALLY do is quite intentionally, deliberately, and often quite maliciously discard contract that have been rendered unprofitable, by any means necessary, and often have their contracts written in such a way to best enable them to do exactly that.

But I"m sure you WILL ignore that, since that seems your modus operendi, to make outragious, unsupported, and fundamentally erronious claims, and blatantly ignore anything that in any way contradicts it. But it doesn't really matter. You might ignore it, but everybody else sees it.

He is making unsupported claims, that doesn't justify you doing the same, especially given the rather 'outrageous' nature of your claim (that really requires an obnoxiously cynical and jaded outlook).

[Hiddenrun]

Hiddenrun, you still haven't explained how private health insurance differs from a national health service in terms of coercion.

Does the amount you've paid in premiums exceed the amount the insurance company has paid to cover your health costs? Yes? Well, guess what -- your money is being used to pay for other people's medical care.

You choose to pay into private insurance. You do not choose to pay into public insurance.

It's quite simple.

[Czardas]

nope, you want to claim that insurance companies don't have a vested intrest in making a profit?

Private insurance companies are for profit. What is your point? This does not change the fact that you have exactly the coverage provided for in your contract.

Sure you do - so long as you can actually get a contract. Can't see many students affording comprehensive medical insurance when they're struggling to eat.

Eh, they're just lazy. They should get jobs and stuff. It's not like going to university actually costs money and takes up most of your spare time, and even if it does, you can always quit if you can't support yourself. University dropouts get great jobs after all!

[Neo Art]

Hiddenrun, you still haven't explained how private health insurance differs from a national health service in terms of coercion.

Does the amount you've paid in premiums exceed the amount the insurance company has paid to cover your health costs? Yes? Well, guess what -- your money is being used to pay for other people's medical care.

You choose to pay into private insurance. You do not choose to pay into public insurance.

It's quite simple.

let me ask you a question. You said your wife rolled her car. I assume then, that you drive, is that correct?

[Reagan States]

You choose to pay into private insurance. You do not choose to pay into public insurance.

It's quite simple.

Thank you.

[DaWoad]

I like how you cut out where I said, "and if you aren't, you should bank elsewhere".

Ahh, the "you can always go elsewhere" idiocy. In a near damn monopoly of banks following a mess of mergers last decade. Maybe you'll tell me to "found your own bank" next.

But continue going out of your way not to find your own solutions.

My first idealized solution would probably involve clubbing you in the head for being such a git.

My second solution would probably involve stripping everything you own from you and reducing you to a ground state of being, and watching you try to "find your own solutions". I'd probably sell tickets to the viewing to NSG, and retire rich.

Stress relieving, but not very practical.

-it gets better. Those banks got hit the hardest across the board by the recession. The only way to garuntee you wont get hit by a recession is to keep your monney on you at all times and then you'll loose it slowly to inflation. There is no way to garaunteed way to win.