Stop expecting others to take care of you.

[Hiddenrun]

I'd love to talk to this clairvoyant who told you that an economic Recession was going to happen back when you were still in University.

And I'd like to know where you've been living that caused you to never learn that economic recessions happen every couple of years? You act like belt-tightening is a new concept.

[DaWoad]

Well lets see.
1)people get sick by no fault of their own.
2)people who are sick may be temporarily unable to work (again through no fault of their own)
3)being both unable to work AND having to pay for medical treatment is mroe than most people can easily afford especially for the more expensive treatments (such as cancer treatment)
4)now either you have the government take care of these people OR you leave them out in the cold.
Option1: government. Cost of treament is assumed by the government either only in emergencies (which, given the states expenditure per person would seem to be the wrong way to go) or at all times. This means payment is assumed by everyone affecting most people only slightly.
Option2: Leave em to die! well aside from the moral issues you also start loosing ALOT of people who were previously very productive in society. That means your economy suffers.

[Farnhamia]

These programs are callous when you consider all the sacrifices of others to achieve the standing and income they now have.

My mother's side of the family sacrificed greatly by doing outrageous things like using newspapers instead of toiletries in order to send my mother to college. Why should any member of my family fork over money to others who did not try as they did to escape poverty?

Because it's the human thing to do. Taxes are the price you pay for civilization. Go live in the woods if you object.

[North Suran]

I'd love to talk to this clairvoyant who told you that an economic Recession was going to happen back when you were still in University.

And I'd like to know where you've been living that caused you to never learn that economic recessions happen every couple of years? You act like belt-tightening is a new concept.

You act as if global economic recessions are an everyday occurence.

Not to mention the fact that - until this latest Recession reared its head - it was universally believed that the UK could never go into another Recession, due to new planning by the Chancellor of the Exchequer.

But hey, it's probably just the people's fault; they didn't try hard enough to use their inherent physic energy to predict this event.

[Hiddenrun]

Well lets see.
1)people get sick by no fault of their own.
2)people who are sick may be temporarily unable to work (again through no fault of their own)
3)being both unable to work AND having to pay for medical treatment is mroe than most people can easily afford especially for the more expensive treatments (such as cancer treatment)
4)now either you have the government take care of these people OR you leave them out in the cold.
Option1: government. Cost of treament is assumed by the government either only in emergencies (which, given the states expenditure per person would seem to be the wrong way to go) or at all times. This means payment is assumed by everyone affecting most people only slightly.
Option2: Leave em to die! well aside from the moral issues you also start loosing ALOT of people who were previously very productive in society. That means your economy suffers.

Option 3: People learn how to use insurance to cover these issues.

Try harder.

[Poliwanacraca]

I'm also not such an arrogant, self-entitled twat as to think that working outside my field is 'below me'. If I lost my job and could not find anything else in my field for three months, I'd take a fucking job at a fast-food joint with no complaints. People who prefer to sit on their asses and cry about being too good for such work make me sick.

Which would be nice and relevant, if anyone had ever made such an argument - or if the fast-food joint would hire you, which they probably wouldn't, because they're not morons and would rather get an employee who's not going to leave the second something better comes along. Again, speaking as someone who's actually in this situation, I've applied for dozens and dozens of jobs working cash registers and flipping burgers. They don't hire me. They hire the reasonably competent guy with a GED who will happily work the cash register for the next seven years, because he's a better investment for them than I am.

[DaWoad]

I'd love to talk to this clairvoyant who told you that an economic Recession was going to happen back when you were still in University.

And I'd like to know where you've been living that caused you to never learn that economic recessions happen every couple of years? You act like belt-tightening is a new concept.

every couple of years???

* July 1981-November 1982: 14 months
* July 1990-March 1991: 8 months
* March 2001-November 2001: 8 months
* December 2007-current: current[32]
. . .that would seem to be less than every couple of years.

[Czardas]

Silly, you should have picked a job that you couldn't possibly get laid off from in any kind of financial crisis whatsoever. Don't you know how to predict the future?

Actually yes. Choosing a career that is able to weather uncertain financial times is key. I'm glad you recognize this. Perhaps you can now go enlighten all the Arts majors out there.

The professions of some of the people I personally know who have been laid off in the past year:

- lawyer
- nurse
- accountant
- teacher
- engineer
- administrative assistant
- translator
- physical therapist

Since apparently none of the above careers are magically safe from all economic crises, please tell me precisely which careers you think are?

You can't be laid off if you're self-employed! <.<

Now you're laying bare the ridiculousness of your claims,

What job is secure under all financial conditions?

You've been lucky and you assume your luck is down to you alone,

I'm not saying you've not been responsible and intelligent and prepared for the worst, you just haven't been hit by the worst as it concerns you,

No job is secure under all financial conditions.

Some fields, however, are more vulnerable than others. There are only so many jobs for sociology majors. It doesn't take a genius to figure that out.

If you want an education for education's sake, then by all means, have at it. Pay for it, enjoy what it brings you. Your sociology degree does not entitle you to a top-notch job, and as long as you recognize that, fine.

It's the whining of the people who deliberately make bad career choices that grate most.

I didn't choose a career that I felt fulfilled me as a person. I choose a career that would allow me to provide for myself and my family, and that has skills transferable to many other fields. I make as much money as I can, with as little effort as possible, so that I can enjoy my life. I don't need to love my job (though luckily I do actually quite enjoy it), because my goal is self-sufficiency, not self-realization-through-work.

I'm also not such an arrogant, self-entitled twat as to think that working outside my field is 'below me'. If I lost my job and could not find anything else in my field for three months, I'd take a fucking job at a fast-food joint with no complaints. People who prefer to sit on their asses and cry about being too good for such work make me sick.

(a) how did you get that job in the first place? (b) why do you think everyone's goal in life is the same as yours?

[Dyakovo]

It's also profit-based. They therefore have a vested interest in taking money from people, while giving back as little as possible. That's not help so much as exploitation.

What a crock of shit.

Congratulations, you have now proven that you have no experience with or knowledge of insurance companies.

[Treznor]

Well lets see.
1)people get sick by no fault of their own.
2)people who are sick may be temporarily unable to work (again through no fault of their own)
3)being both unable to work AND having to pay for medical treatment is mroe than most people can easily afford especially for the more expensive treatments (such as cancer treatment)
4)now either you have the government take care of these people OR you leave them out in the cold.
Option1: government. Cost of treament is assumed by the government either only in emergencies (which, given the states expenditure per person would seem to be the wrong way to go) or at all times. This means payment is assumed by everyone affecting most people only slightly.
Option2: Leave em to die! well aside from the moral issues you also start loosing ALOT of people who were previously very productive in society. That means your economy suffers.

Option 3: People learn how to use insurance to cover these issues.

Try harder.

You mean, the same insurance companies that have a vested interest in not covering higher risk customers, or denying payment for any excuse?

Try harder.

[Rikese]

Silly, you should have picked a job that you couldn't possibly get laid off from in any kind of financial crisis whatsoever. Don't you know how to predict the future?

Actually yes. Choosing a career that is able to weather uncertain financial times is key. I'm glad you recognize this. Perhaps you can now go enlighten all the Arts majors out there.

The professions of some of the people I personally know who have been laid off in the past year:

- lawyer
- nurse
- accountant
- teacher
- engineer
- administrative assistant
- translator
- physical therapist

Since apparently none of the above careers are magically safe from all economic crises, please tell me precisely which careers you think are?

They must have been pretty awful at what they did.

[Buxtahatche]

WHAT IF YOU FALL? Who will help you? are you just going to say you failed and die in the ghettos lonely?

Not many people get the opportunity to start over because of people like Hiddenrun..

I WILL NOT DIE IN THE GHETTO.
I will continue trying.
If I fall, I will get up. I will move forward. I will probably fall AGAIN. I will get up AGAIN, and continue forward.

Unlike the liberal marshmallows who seemingly teach people work ethic today, I WILL NOT GIVE UP. I will NOT RELY ON OTHERS. I will MAKE MY OWN WAY and I will TAKE PRIDE IN MY MODEST ACCOMPLISHMENTS. Anything I achieve by the sweat of my brow is worth far more than something handed to me by the government- something which is stolen from those who have earned it.

IF everyone understood that, then the world would be a FAR better place.

[Barringtonia]

If you want an education for education's sake, then by all means, have at it. Pay for it, enjoy what it brings you. Your sociology degree does not entitle you to a top-notch job, and as long as you recognize that, fine.

Sorry, I missed the part where I was holding down a job to pay for my education at 7, or chose which neighborhood to live, or the colour of my skin, or any deformities I might have.

It's the whining of the people who deliberately make bad career choices that grate most. I didn't choose a career that I felt fulfilled me as a person. I choose a career that would allow me to provide for myself and my family, and that has skills transferable to many other fields. I make as much money as I can, with as little effort as possible, so that I can enjoy my life. I don't need to love my job (though luckily I do actually quite enjoy it), because my goal is self-sufficiency, not self-realization-through-work.

I'm also not such an arrogant, self-entitled twat as to think that working outside my field is 'below me'. If I lost my job and could not find anything else in my field for three months, I'd take a fucking job at a fast-food joint with no complaints. People who prefer to sit on their asses and cry about being too good for such work make me sick.

Oh I'm sorry you're so unhappy with your life that you begrudge those taking the easy route, those who choose to live on welfare rather than have a secure well-paying job, because welfare is such a lark for everyone,

In reality you're against a certain section of society that you look down your nose upon, and seem to so hate the fact that you worked in life and they're just freeloading off your efforts.

Gosh, life is so black and white for you,

[Hiddenrun]

You act as if global economic recessions are an everyday occurence.

Not to mention the fact that - until this latest Recession reared its head - it was universally believed that the UK could never go into another Recession, due to new planning by the Chancellor of the Exchequer.

But hey, it's probably just the people's fault; they didn't try hard enough to use their inherent physic energy to predict this event.

I've been through enough recessions not to listen to the refrain of 'it can't happen again'. And this last one didn't come out of the blue, no matter how many people want to pretend otherwise.

[Czardas]

Well lets see.
1)people get sick by no fault of their own.
2)people who are sick may be temporarily unable to work (again through no fault of their own)
3)being both unable to work AND having to pay for medical treatment is mroe than most people can easily afford especially for the more expensive treatments (such as cancer treatment)
4)now either you have the government take care of these people OR you leave them out in the cold.
Option1: government. Cost of treament is assumed by the government either only in emergencies (which, given the states expenditure per person would seem to be the wrong way to go) or at all times. This means payment is assumed by everyone affecting most people only slightly.
Option2: Leave em to die! well aside from the moral issues you also start loosing ALOT of people who were previously very productive in society. That means your economy suffers.

Option 3: People learn how to use insurance to cover these issues.

Try harder.

What's the practical difference between private health insurance and a national health service?

[DaWoad]

Option 3: People learn how to use insurance to cover these issues.

Try harder.

1)insurence doesn't cover everything (not even close) and does not always pay immediately. its perfectly possible that even with insurence an illness can be cripplingly expensive.
2)insurance costs more than some can afford
3)people , when they have to cost cut, go after things they don't need Right Now. Insurence, by definition, is one of those.

[Poliwanacraca]

Silly, you should have picked a job that you couldn't possibly get laid off from in any kind of financial crisis whatsoever. Don't you know how to predict the future?

Actually yes. Choosing a career that is able to weather uncertain financial times is key. I'm glad you recognize this. Perhaps you can now go enlighten all the Arts majors out there.

The professions of some of the people I personally know who have been laid off in the past year:

- lawyer
- nurse
- accountant
- teacher
- engineer
- administrative assistant
- translator
- physical therapist

Since apparently none of the above careers are magically safe from all economic crises, please tell me precisely which careers you think are?

They must have been pretty awful at what they did.

I do hope you're joking.

[Hiddenrun]

every couple of years???

* July 1981-November 1982: 14 months
* July 1990-March 1991: 8 months
* March 2001-November 2001: 8 months
* December 2007-current: current[32]
. . .that would seem to be less than every couple of years.

You must be very young.

[Hydesland]

In fact, they do. They're the reason people avoid getting basic care by raising prices to the point where people have to choose between medical care and eating.

I'm sorry, but that just sounds like total bullshit. Prove that health insurance companies are increasing prices for the specific purpose to force people to only buy their services when a serious emergency comes up (given that it would totally not be a profit oriented measure, by substantially decreasing their revenue and customer base and would cause the company to have a very undiversified risk base, another anti-profit measure).

The payout is greater for treatment than prevention. That's why more and more doctors become specialists instead of general practitioners. Pharmaceutical companies make their profits on new drugs for new diseases, so they wine and dine doctors to find reasons to use those new drugs. The insurance companies have to raise premiums to cover the expense of all these specialists and drugs, so people are less inclined to spend money on basic care.

Bold mine. Remember, we're talking about insurance companies, not other segments of the industry.

All because there's profit to be made.

And yet, most of the world, including Europe, are almost entirely dependent on these competitive pharmaceutical companies, funny how that works.

Denial of coverage is real, and it's on the increase. Competition isn't helping this, and there's good reason to believe that the insurance industry is establishing "industry standards" to weed out "high risk" customers -- even people who are perfectly healthy. Maybe it doesn't make sense, but this is what's happening right now. Something needs to change.

I do support a health service , but there should also definitely be measures against these 'industry standards'. One thing I will mention is that living in Britain, having an NHS does not prevent abuses, I hear weekly reports of many terrible things happening under the system here, I am unconvinced that the bureaucrats the work in the industry are any more concerned about the people.

[Neo Art]

WHAT IF YOU FALL? Who will help you? are you just going to say you failed and die in the ghettos lonely?

Not many people get the opportunity to start over because of people like Hiddenrun..

I WILL NOT DIE IN THE GHETTO.
I will continue trying.
If I fall, I will get up. I will move forward. I will probably fall AGAIN. I will get up AGAIN, and continue forward.

Unlike the liberal marshmallows who seemingly teach people work ethic today, I WILL NOT GIVE UP. I will NOT RELY ON OTHERS. I will MAKE MY OWN WAY and I will TAKE PRIDE IN MY MODEST ACCOMPLISHMENTS. Anything I achieve by the sweat of my brow is worth far more than something handed to me by the government- something which is stolen from those who have earned it.

IF everyone understood that, then the world would be a FAR better place.

The great irony of people who talk about how they will not rely on others is that they, invariably, don't even realize how much they relied on others just to get to work this morning.

[DaWoad]

WHAT IF YOU FALL? Who will help you? are you just going to say you failed and die in the ghettos lonely?

Not many people get the opportunity to start over because of people like Hiddenrun..

I WILL NOT DIE IN THE GHETTO.
I will continue trying.
If I fall, I will get up. I will move forward. I will probably fall AGAIN. I will get up AGAIN, and continue forward.

Unlike the liberal marshmallows who seemingly teach people work ethic today, I WILL NOT GIVE UP. I will NOT RELY ON OTHERS. I will MAKE MY OWN WAY and I will TAKE PRIDE IN MY MODEST ACCOMPLISHMENTS. Anything I achieve by the sweat of my brow is worth far more than something handed to me by the government- something which is stolen from those who have earned it.

IF everyone understood that, then the world would be a FAR better place.

jesus so you get sick and end up with a multi thousand dollar bill. How are you planning on even covering the intrest on that??? especially if your illness has left you unable to work as well as you once had. Clearly you can just "get up" right? No, thats not the way things work in the real world.

[Hiddenrun]

(a) how did you get that job in the first place? (b) why do you think everyone's goal in life is the same as yours?

a) I started working in my field nearly 36 years ago.
b) I could care less. I'm just saying why my priorities have allowed me to weather economic storms.

[DaWoad]

every couple of years???

* July 1981-November 1982: 14 months
* July 1990-March 1991: 8 months
* March 2001-November 2001: 8 months
* December 2007-current: current[32]
. . .that would seem to be less than every couple of years.

You must be very young.

compared to what precisely? Everyone is young in comparison to something (aaaand im 20 which may or may not be young in your eyes. . .could go either way)

[Hiddenrun]

Congratulations, you have now proven that you have no experience with or knowledge of insurance companies.

Ha, what field do you think I work in?

You people kill me

[Farnhamia]

Silly, you should have picked a job that you couldn't possibly get laid off from in any kind of financial crisis whatsoever. Don't you know how to predict the future?

Actually yes. Choosing a career that is able to weather uncertain financial times is key. I'm glad you recognize this. Perhaps you can now go enlighten all the Arts majors out there.

The professions of some of the people I personally know who have been laid off in the past year:

- lawyer
- nurse
- accountant
- teacher
- engineer
- administrative assistant
- translator
- physical therapist

Since apparently none of the above careers are magically safe from all economic crises, please tell me precisely which careers you think are?

They must have been pretty awful at what they did.

I do hope you're joking.

No, Poli, I suspect he's not. Neither is Hiddenrun.