If you were a mod...

[Minnysota]

I'd crush Solm for sending me an automated message. >:|

[PrncssOfCuddles]

You know, it's not nice to talk around someone's back.

Even if you think she's not doing a great job, I'm pretty sure DLN is doing her best to be a good mod. They're not Jesus incarnate, so they too have flaws (like Sedge, but lets not get to that part or we'll be here all day), except for NERVUN, who is a computer.

You have a crush on her, too, don't you?! I will fight you for her!

[Steel and Fire]

You weren't here for Stephistan, I guess. Or Myrth.

No, I was here for when Steph had already been demoted. I was horrified when I found out she had once been a mod. I think that she was removed for very good reason, which demonstrates the system does work. In this case I just think it hasn't caught up yet.

Steph was removed for very good reason, and if you were around then you'd know why -- and why comparing her to DLN is slightly unfair. Just for the most obvious thing, DLN will always (from what I've seen, anyway) get another mod to take a second look if someone challenges her, whereas Stephistan (and later Myrth) wouldn't accept being challenged at all and just handle complaints about themselves by themselves (that's explicitly why Myrth was removed and required to publicly apologise, iirc). Indeed, I've seen a few cases where the other mods did decide DLN was out of line and reverse her rulings -- and she didn't then throw a public temper tantrum, reveal personal information about the mods and delete herself in a fit of pique. A better comparison would probably be Neutered Sputniks. If anyone else even remembers him nowadays <_<

[Esternial]

You know, it's not nice to talk around someone's back.

Even if you think she's not doing a great job, I'm pretty sure DLN is doing her best to be a good mod. They're not Jesus incarnate, so they too have flaws (like Sedge, but lets not get to that part or we'll be here all day), except for NERVUN, who is a computer.

You have a crush on her, too, don't you?! I will fight you for her!

Everybody knows I adore Kat

Because my favourite colour is blue.

[Kiskaanak]

Steph was removed for very good reason, and if you were around then you'd know why -- and why comparing her to DLN is slightly unfair. Just for the most obvious thing, DLN will always (from what I've seen, anyway) get another mod to take a second look if someone challenges her, whereas Stephistan (and later Myrth) wouldn't accept being challenged at all and just handle complaints about themselves by themselves (that's explicitly why Myrth was removed and required to publicly apologise, iirc). Indeed, I've seen a few cases where the other mods did decide DLN was out of line and reverse her rulings -- and she didn't then throw a public temper tantrum, reveal personal information about the mods and delete herself in a fit of pique. A better comparison would probably be Neutered Sputniks. If anyone else even remembers him nowadays <_<

Sorry, but I did not compare her to Steph. You brought up Steph, and I noted that I am aware Steph was once a moderator and had been removed, and yes I am aware of why. That is not a comparison. It's a different topic entirely. Steph and I did not get along, at all and I was not sad to see her and her husband finally depart.

That's really great that sometimes DLN gets her rulings reversed. If she learned from it and became a decent moderator, that would be even better. Short of that, having people follow through with specific complaints about her rulings might help problems come to light, because it's not really practical to have other mods watching one another like hawks, is it?


Edit: although I do like your comparison

[NERVUN]

You're welcome to your own opinion of course, but I haven't seen any of that sort of behavior. Nathi doesn't suffer rule breakers gladly, but that's just her style.

Well we do certainly disagree on this. Most of the complaints I hear about Moderation decisions (because who doesn't like to bitch about them, really) are based on her rulings and her often confusing or outright dishonest justifications for those decisions. The weirdest shit I've seen personally in terms of rulings have been based on her decisions. I do think that not enough people have availed themselves of a review of her decisions because well...the review process is not particularly accessible or understood. If they were to lodge these complaints, you might have your attention drawn to the kinds of behaviours I've mentioned.

So I guess my suggestion is that people who have had to deal with a bizarre decision by DLN actually do follow up with a review request, and tender evidence of any falsehoods (like claiming she sent a 'heads up TG' if the TG was actually merely a notice of a lock).

In all seriousness, I would like to see such evidence. Because, quite honestly, the Admins and Max takes every charge of Mod bias/rule breaking/unfairness seriously as long as there is evidence. That's where things usually fall down, for all the howling no one actually proffers the said evidence.

You know, it's not nice to talk around someone's back.

Even if you think she's not doing a great job, I'm pretty sure DLN is doing her best to be a good mod. They're not Jesus incarnate, so they too have flaws (like Sedge, but lets not get to that part or we'll be here all day), except for NERVUN, who is a computer.

Hey! I am NOT a comp... comp... Cpmp SAkljsdh...

"STOP: 0x00000007"

"INVALID_SOFTWARE_INTERRUPT"

[United Dependencies]

We get up at twelve and start to work at one.
Take an hour for lunch and then at two we're done.
Jolly good fun!

Ha - ha - ha, Ho - ho - ho - And a couple of tra - la - las
That's how we laugh the day away, In the Merry Old Land of Mods!

[Steel and Fire]

Sorry, but I did not compare her to Steph. You brought up Steph, and I noted that I am aware Steph was once a moderator and had been removed, and yes I am aware of why. That is not a comparison. It's a different topic entirely. Steph and I did not get along, at all and I was not sad to see her and her husband finally depart.

*nods*

But you did suggest that DLN should be removed the same way Steph was, and there seems to be an obvious reason why that hasn't happened -- whatever else you may think of her, DLN isn't under the impression that she's above the rules. It's mods who act that way who get removed, whereas mods who are simply snarky and condescending in their public face typically aren't. (When they were active, Frisbeeteria and Hack were both very much like that -- and Frisbeeteria's rulings especially were contested quite often; not because they were necessarily less fair than anyone else's, more because of the way he presented himself.)

That's really great that sometimes DLN gets her rulings reversed. If she learned from it and became a decent moderator, that would be even better. Short of that, having people follow through with specific complaints about her rulings might help problems come to light, because it's not really practical to have other mods watching one another like hawks, is it?

I would think that's the only practical way to do anything, tbh. Someone has to watch the watchers. And if you think they aren't watching closely enough, yes, by all means do make whatever complaints you think necessary, using any avenues open to you. Every mod has made mistakes.

Edit: although I do like your comparison

Thank you, I worked very hard on it

[Galloism]

Hey! I am NOT a comp... comp... Cpmp SAkljsdh...

"STOP: 0x00000007"

"INVALID_SOFTWARE_INTERRUPT"

I bet you say that to all the girls.

[Kiskaanak]

In all seriousness, I would like to see such evidence. Because, quite honestly, the Admins and Max takes every charge of Mod bias/rule breaking/unfairness seriously as long as there is evidence. That's where things usually fall down, for all the howling no one actually proffers the said evidence.

I agree. Usually if I have an actual problem with a mod ruling, I'll talk about it and back myself up, and things either go my way or they don't. But that's me. I've always been like that.

I'd like to see people with clear evidence present it (e.g. false claim about a TG sent, which is easy to refute). But 'bias' is not a clear cut thing. It's a pattern. So I'd also like people to be patient when reporting incidents, because it does take time to establish a pattern.

I think a lot of people just shrug and figure, "well she's just capricious, my complaint won't go anywhere, nothing will be done, why bother." So yeah. I'd like people to do more than bitch and moan too.

*glares at forum and points with lips to Moderation and other complaint processes*

[Kiskaanak]

But you did suggest that DLN should be removed the same way Steph was, and there seems to be an obvious reason why that hasn't happened -- whatever else you may think of her, DLN isn't under the impression that she's above the rules. It's mods who act that way who get removed, whereas mods who are simply snarky and condescending in their public face typically aren't. (When they were active, Frisbeeteria and Hack were both very much like that -- and Frisbeeteria's rulings especially were contested quite often; not because they were necessarily less fair than anyone else's, more because of the way he presented himself.)

I suggested mentoring from more capable mods, or failing that, removal. Not 'in the same way Steph was removed'. No, she doesn't think she's above the rules...it appears she doesn't actually understand them very well. Like satire.

I would think that's the only practical way to do anything, tbh. Someone has to watch the watchers. And if you think they aren't watching closely enough, yes, by all means do make whatever complaints you think necessary, using any avenues open to you. Every mod has made mistakes.

Thank you, I worked very hard on it

[NERVUN]

Hey! I am NOT a comp... comp... Cpmp SAkljsdh...

"STOP: 0x00000007"

"INVALID_SOFTWARE_INTERRUPT"

I bet you say that to all the girls.

Got me my wife, didn't it?

[Dumb Ideologies]

But you did suggest that DLN should be removed the same way Steph was, and there seems to be an obvious reason why that hasn't happened -- whatever else you may think of her, DLN isn't under the impression that she's above the rules. It's mods who act that way who get removed, whereas mods who are simply snarky and condescending in their public face typically aren't. (When they were active, Frisbeeteria and Hack were both very much like that -- and Frisbeeteria's rulings especially were contested quite often; not because they were necessarily less fair than anyone else's, more because of the way he presented himself.)

I suggested mentoring from more capable mods, or failing that, removal. Not 'in the same way Steph was removed'. No, she doesn't think she's above the rules...it appears she doesn't actually understand them very well. Like satire.

This. So much this. The majority of times I have seen a satire thread with plenty of potential insta-closed it is by one person.

[Ardchoille]

I'd rather not have to lock this for being off-topic, because some will interpret that as "mods can't take complaints against one of their number".

We can, but (a) there are places for that, and (b) we can't take personal abuse against any player, mod or not. Worse, DLN can't properly defend herself because, being a mod, she can't contribute to a threadjack.

On the available evidence, I'd have to say that most Generalites already know how to complain about everything, including mods. But just in case there are any who don't: the Moderation forum for specific instances, or Getting Help when you want to discuss concerns that would be unfair to raise in public, in case they prove to be unfounded. Remember, links.

So, just a refresher: the topic that Fischistan lightheartedly began this thread with is "If you were a mod ...".

Over to you.

[SD_Film Artists]

I'd love it for a couple of days before leaving NSG forever, not liking the thought of being duty-bound to the place despite how addicted I am to it.

[Mikoyan-Guryevich]

Anyway, I'd be a roleplay mentor. Much more fun than wielding the banhammers.

[Central Slavia]

A forum mod definitely.
Dealing with spammers, obvious trolls and other pointlessness would at least legitimise wasting time looking through NSG.
Though, not much of a point now - am not around quite as often as it used to be.

[Milograd]

Anyway, I'd be a roleplay mentor. Much more fun than wielding the banhammers.

lolwut

since when is being a mentor fun? >_>

[Nadkor]

Yup.

Kat has always been 'tough but fair'. Like I said, Melkor has let things get personal before, but that has been noticed. Most of the other mods have been fine. I haven't agreed with everything they do, but that's not the point. Generally the other mods don't make totally ridiculous rulings and then back them up with hyperbole, deflection, and thread locks to avoid further conversation. That is basically all DLN does, however.

Wasn't there a rule that if you want to be a mod, you probably won't be? DLN went around for years acting like a mod while pulling a Eutrusca like 'smiley' (in the form of a signature stating she wasn't a mod) to get away with it. She desperately wanted to be a mod and eventually she got her wish.

She has never demonstrated an ability to be a fair, balanced, or consistent moderator however. Her rulings have always been childish and poorly backed up. Frankly, this should be reviewed, and she should either be mentored by a more capable moderator (or the team), or she should be removed.

So no. The system isn't broken. Just one moderator is.

You're welcome to your own opinion of course, but I haven't seen any of that sort of behavior. Nathi doesn't suffer rule breakers gladly, but that's just her style.

Oh, really, Kiskaanak has called it spectacularly well.

As for the topic of the thread: If I was a mod I would be precisely like DLN. And I would expect to be removed from my position.

[Fischistan]

When did I become a blazing hot sex maniac?

It makes life that much more interesting.

Oh. That came out wrong. Oh no. *shudders*

Wow. I'm sigging that.

[Tergnitz]

Anyway, I'd be a roleplay mentor. Much more fun than wielding the banhammers.

lolwut

since when is being a mentor fun? >_>

*nods*

Its hardwork down here in the trenches.

[Mikoyan-Guryevich]

lolwut

since when is being a mentor fun? >_>

*nods*

Its hardwork down here in the trenches.

Yes... Very err... hard work indeed.

[Tiami]

Anyway, I'd be a roleplay mentor. Much more fun than wielding the banhammers.

lolwut

since when is being a mentor fun? >_>

Since the mighty Carta became one?

[Inky Noodles]

Why dont mods have shadow's? You know... like nations that learn what its like to be a mod?

[Malshan]

Anyway, I'd be a roleplay mentor. Much more fun than wielding the banhammers.

lolwut

since when is being a mentor fun? >_>

Since I discovered that I enjoy helping people out with RPs.