Is Socialism Un-American?

[Jimanistan]

Socialism is the best road forward for America. It's not the only road. There are a lot of other possibilities, but socialism shows the most promise of helping the US adapt to the ever-changing World.

Do I think it's likely that America will become any more than remotely socialist (that is, regulate commerce and maintain minimum wage, etc.)? No, not really. There are too many members of the lower class with Economic-Stockholm syndrome, who, in tandem with their rich, corporatist allies, will probably be able to kill any substantial shifting towards a more egalitarian society. It really makes me sad.

[Maerngau]

Of course not! Many workers rights & civil rights, that U.S. citizens enjoy today, had (& have) members of the communist party at the heart of the of labor & social movements. Thanks, in part to socialist leadership in U.S. history, we enjoy a 40hr work week, child labor laws, equal rights, the womens right to vote. All of that is off the top of my head without even looking anything up. Even today, socialist are in movements such as gay rights, universal health care, & the right to a living wage. Through out history, the have filled & help organize the rank & file of such movements. In fact, Eugene Debs speach against WWI was one of the greatest speaches in american history. I think he is one of the most overlooked "Great Americans". He served prison time for that speach, proving the 1st admendment only applies when what your saying doesn't threaten the ruling classes plans.

Henry Ford actually started the 8 hour day 5 day work week. He did this so workers would be more efficient and so they would have more time to go out and spend money. Energized Workers = More Efficient Factory, Workers With Time On Their Hands = Consumers. The 40 hour work was created as a result of Capitalism not Socialism. Henry Ford certainly wasn't a Socialist.

P.S. Speech not speach.

The English factory regulations of the 1830s predated Ford by several generations. The most certainly were not the product of laissez faire capitalism but of sane regulation - NOT sponsored by the capitalists.

[Patriqvinia]

Uh, yeah... So, is there an objective point, or are you just sharing information with us?

So why do you find certain social constructs like the EU distasteful while you enjoy a number of other social constructs, presumably.

Oh, you thought I was saying I found ALL social constructs distasteful. No, that's not the case. The EU cannot be compared to things like a family or something like that, it's not formed from any sort of necessity.

[Maerngau]

yes

Obama is Un-American.

Correct. How else do you explain this

To be serious, are you REALLY claiming that a hand gesture to a piece of cloth actually means something important? Really? How pathetic.
Just to make you feel better, he did start wearing a flag pin.


Honestly I don;t give a shit if something is "unAmerican" as long as it works.

So symbols are not important? yes he did start wearing the flag pin after the election. What was the problem with wearing it before the election?

Because it's a bit of shallow propaganda designed to impress simpletons. It was probably made in communist China.

[Bavin]

Nazi Germany was Fascist, ergo, Socialist. That state was not a failure in any regard, save for its ethics.

Godwin's law! Just saying.

[Maerngau]

Un-American doesn't mean anything, it's just a phrase hacks throw around when they want to fire up emotions and win arguments.

Shouting matches.

[Unchecked Expansion]

Uh, yeah... So, is there an objective point, or are you just sharing information with us?

So why do you find certain social constructs like the EU distasteful while you enjoy a number of other social constructs, presumably.

Oh, you thought I was saying I found ALL social constructs distasteful. No, that's not the case. The EU cannot be compared to things like a family or something like that, it's not formed from any sort of necessity.

Well, some people may believe that fostering increased trade between neighbours to boost the economy is a necessary, or at least beneficial act. It depends what you define as 'necessary'.

[Kormanthor]

and the results of this poll...

show that most people don't think the same as you. Some socialist ideas are good and useful, as the success of the EU shows

Good and useful to DICTATORS maybe.

[Tech-gnosis]

Oh, you thought I was saying I found ALL social constructs distasteful. No, that's not the case. The EU cannot be compared to things like a family or something like that, it's not formed from any sort of necessity.

How is it necessary for the US to exist in its current form? I

[Bavin]

and the results of this poll...

show that most people don't think the same as you. Some socialist ideas are good and useful, as the success of the EU shows

Good and useful to DICTATORS maybe.

Wha-?

[Unchecked Expansion]

and the results of this poll...

show that most people don't think the same as you. Some socialist ideas are good and useful, as the success of the EU shows

Good and useful to DICTATORS maybe.

Yes. Dictators like healthy populaces, and hate the poor so much that they just GIVE them money.

[Kormanthor]

Total and complete socialism is definately Un-American ! Not only that socialism has never worked anywhere it has been tried .... Capitalism is the best economy type by far.

You're only looking at the obvious. Stalinism failed in the USSR, but there are still quite the shitload of socialist states. communities, etc. over the world. Some Communist ideologies have never been tested, some still exist. For instance, the Anarchist Communes of spain/catalonia, sweden, and so on.

Look. Beyond. The fucking. Obvious.

First if you can't discuss this without cussing then don't post. Secondly just because those folks do it doesn't mean that it is good for them. Lets talk about the Health Care in Europe, where people have to wait for months, possibly years in order to medical treatment. If their system is so much better then the ours then why are they coming over here for treatments?

[Tech-gnosis]

First if you can't discuss this without cussing then don't post. Secondly just because those folks do it doesn't mean that it is good for them. Lets talk about the Health Care in Europe, where people have to wait for months, possibly years in order to medical treatment. If their system is so much better then the ours then why are they coming over here for treatments?

Thousands of American's go to nations like Mexico, Brazil, India, and Thailand for medical treatments. Do they have better healthcare systems?

Also source that every nation in Europe has a waiting list problem.

[Patriqvinia]

Oh, you thought I was saying I found ALL social constructs distasteful. No, that's not the case. The EU cannot be compared to things like a family or something like that, it's not formed from any sort of necessity.

How is it necessary for the US to exist in its current form? I

It isn't

[Unchecked Expansion]

Total and complete socialism is definately Un-American ! Not only that socialism has never worked anywhere it has been tried .... Capitalism is the best economy type by far.

You're only looking at the obvious. Stalinism failed in the USSR, but there are still quite the shitload of socialist states. communities, etc. over the world. Some Communist ideologies have never been tested, some still exist. For instance, the Anarchist Communes of spain/catalonia, sweden, and so on.

Look. Beyond. The fucking. Obvious.

First if you can't discuss this without cussing then don't post. Secondly just because those folks do it doesn't mean that it is good for them. Lets talk about the Health Care in Europe, where people have to wait for months, possibly years in order to medical treatment. If their system is so much better then the ours then why are they coming over here for treatments?

Why does noone ever post any statistics for healthcare tourism? Wasn't there a recent claim that th UK NHS wouldn't have thought it worth keeping Stephen Hawking alive, which was really stupid. Universal healthcare is not inherently evil.

[Tech-gnosis]

It isn't

Do you find it distasteful?

[Kormanthor]

and the results of this poll...

show that most people don't think the same as you. Some socialist ideas are good and useful, as the success of the EU shows

Good and useful to DICTATORS maybe.

Yes. Dictators like healthy populaces, and hate the poor so much that they just GIVE them money.

What countries are you talking about with healthy populaces? If they have such a great deal in their countries why come to the US for treatments?

[Kormanthor]

Oh, you thought I was saying I found ALL social constructs distasteful. No, that's not the case. The EU cannot be compared to things like a family or something like that, it's not formed from any sort of necessity.

How is it necessary for the US to exist in its current form? I

It isn't

Are you American? If not you don't get a vote.

[Bavin]

and the results of this poll...

show that most people don't think the same as you. Some socialist ideas are good and useful, as the success of the EU shows

Good and useful to DICTATORS maybe.

Yes. Dictators like healthy populaces, and hate the poor so much that they just GIVE them money.

What countries are you talking about with healthy populaces? If they have such a great deal in their countries why come to the US for treatments?

Source? Methinks you have confused socialism with communism. Google is your friend.

[Kormanthor]

Just answer the question and stop dancing around it

[Unchecked Expansion]

and the results of this poll...

show that most people don't think the same as you. Some socialist ideas are good and useful, as the success of the EU shows

Good and useful to DICTATORS maybe.

Yes. Dictators like healthy populaces, and hate the poor so much that they just GIVE them money.

What countries are you talking about with healthy populaces? If they have such a great deal in their countries why come to the US for treatments?

If you didn't get it from the second part of the sentence, I am skeptical that state owned healthcare providers and welfare is dictatorial in nature

[Bavin]

Just answer the question and stop dancing around it

How can I address something that is untrue, as far as I know? I haven't seen examples of this, and haven't heard it from any reasonable sources, therefore, I regard it as untrue. Prove it, and then we'll argue.

[Utvara]

Just answer the question and stop dancing around it

How can I address something that is untrue, as far as I know? I haven't seen examples of this, and haven't heard it from any reasonable sources, therefore, I regard it as untrue. Prove it, and then we'll argue.

Wait, you mean TRUE BLUE AMERICAN CONSERVATIVE BLOG is not a reliable source?

[Pevisopolis]

First if you can't discuss this without cussing then don't post. Secondly just because those folks do it doesn't mean that it is good for them. Lets talk about the Health Care in Europe, where people have to wait for months, possibly years in order to medical treatment. If their system is so much better then the ours then why are they coming over here for treatments?

How will a change of ownership - Not even close to the U.S. health care plan - cause waits to be longer? That's health care, private or nationalized. Lines happen.

Evidence behind the flood of desperate Europeans flocking to America and its 37-ranked health care system in the world, sandwiched neatly in between Costa Rica and Slovenia?

[Seculartopia]

Un-American is subjective.