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Is Socialism Un-American?

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Is Socialism Un-American?

Yes, keep Socialism out of America!
41
27%
No, everything needs a mix of Socialism in it.
90
60%
Anarchy Please!
19
13%
 
Total votes : 150

User avatar
Patriqvinia
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Posts: 1336
Founded: Oct 08, 2008
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Postby Patriqvinia » Fri Sep 18, 2009 3:52 pm

Buxtahatche wrote:
G073nks wrote:of course it is. If you're not rich and can't afford to live here you should go somewhere else, why should everyone have the chance to achieve what the wealthiest have?


No one should get anything if it's stolen from someone else.
Thieves should be punished- even those within the government.

Socialism is the opposite of everything the US Constitution says.
Try reading it now and again.

Seconded a thousand Times!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Диявол любить ховатися за хрест
+: Voluntarism/panarchism.
-: Authoritarian stuff.
Economic: +8.44 right
Social: +8.89 libertarian
Foreign-Policy: +10 non-interventionist
Cultural: +2.24 liberal

*This anti-subsidy, anti-IP persona brought to you by your friends at Monsanto[TM][R] and Koch Industries[TM][R]!*

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Pevisopolis
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Founded: Feb 22, 2008
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Postby Pevisopolis » Fri Sep 18, 2009 3:56 pm

Patriqvinia wrote:
Buxtahatche wrote:
G073nks wrote:of course it is. If you're not rich and can't afford to live here you should go somewhere else, why should everyone have the chance to achieve what the wealthiest have?


No one should get anything if it's stolen from someone else.
Thieves should be punished- even those within the government.

Socialism is the opposite of everything the US Constitution says.
Try reading it now and again.

Seconded a thousand Times!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Maybe the Constitution isn't quite perfect? That said, changes made to it to suit the needs of modern society, I believe, are a good thing, so long as the U.S. government even exists.
Jesus God almighty man, look at that lot over there! They've spotted us!

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Patriqvinia
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Founded: Oct 08, 2008
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Postby Patriqvinia » Fri Sep 18, 2009 4:02 pm

Free Lofeta wrote:Un-American doesn't mean anything, it's just a phrase hacks throw around when they want to fire up emotions and win arguments.

Actually Un-American does mean something...
It means that something goes against the principles of the founders or conflicts with the constitution (the Bill of Rights especially.)

and the results of this poll... :palm:
Диявол любить ховатися за хрест
+: Voluntarism/panarchism.
-: Authoritarian stuff.
Economic: +8.44 right
Social: +8.89 libertarian
Foreign-Policy: +10 non-interventionist
Cultural: +2.24 liberal

*This anti-subsidy, anti-IP persona brought to you by your friends at Monsanto[TM][R] and Koch Industries[TM][R]!*

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Unchecked Expansion
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Postby Unchecked Expansion » Fri Sep 18, 2009 4:07 pm

Patriqvinia wrote:and the results of this poll... :palm:

show that most people don't think the same as you. Some socialist ideas are good and useful, as the success of the EU shows

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Patriqvinia
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Founded: Oct 08, 2008
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Postby Patriqvinia » Fri Sep 18, 2009 4:10 pm

Unchecked Expansion wrote:
Patriqvinia wrote:and the results of this poll... :palm:

show that most people don't think the same as you. Some socialist ideas are good and useful, as the success of the EU shows

:rofl:
Диявол любить ховатися за хрест
+: Voluntarism/panarchism.
-: Authoritarian stuff.
Economic: +8.44 right
Social: +8.89 libertarian
Foreign-Policy: +10 non-interventionist
Cultural: +2.24 liberal

*This anti-subsidy, anti-IP persona brought to you by your friends at Monsanto[TM][R] and Koch Industries[TM][R]!*

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The Norse Hordes
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Founded: Sep 08, 2009
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Postby The Norse Hordes » Fri Sep 18, 2009 4:10 pm

Patriqvinia wrote:
Buxtahatche wrote:
G073nks wrote:of course it is. If you're not rich and can't afford to live here you should go somewhere else, why should everyone have the chance to achieve what the wealthiest have?


No one should get anything if it's stolen from someone else.
Thieves should be punished- even those within the government.

Socialism is the opposite of everything the US Constitution says.
Try reading it now and again.

Seconded a thousand Times!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



The constitution says nothing about socialism.
Neesika wrote:Spongebob Squarepants turned my daughters into faggots.

Economic Left/Right: -9.62
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.23

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The Norse Hordes
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Founded: Sep 08, 2009
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Postby The Norse Hordes » Fri Sep 18, 2009 4:11 pm

Patriqvinia wrote:
Unchecked Expansion wrote:
Patriqvinia wrote:and the results of this poll... :palm:

show that most people don't think the same as you. Some socialist ideas are good and useful, as the success of the EU shows

:rofl:

I personally find the truth to be hilarious.


Unless youre arguing that Western Europe isnt prosperous....?
Neesika wrote:Spongebob Squarepants turned my daughters into faggots.

Economic Left/Right: -9.62
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.23

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Patriqvinia
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Founded: Oct 08, 2008
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Postby Patriqvinia » Fri Sep 18, 2009 4:12 pm

Pevisopolis wrote:
Patriqvinia wrote:
Buxtahatche wrote:
G073nks wrote:of course it is. If you're not rich and can't afford to live here you should go somewhere else, why should everyone have the chance to achieve what the wealthiest have?


No one should get anything if it's stolen from someone else.
Thieves should be punished- even those within the government.

Socialism is the opposite of everything the US Constitution says.
Try reading it now and again.

Seconded a thousand Times!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Maybe the Constitution isn't quite perfect? That said, changes made to it to suit the needs of modern society, I believe, are a good thing, so long as the U.S. government even exists.


It's not that the constitution is flawed (it is), but the fact that Americans (U.S.) have no idea what exactly is behind the first page (even if they, did their limited knowledge of 18th century grammar would not grant them comprehension.) It would be nice if the only changes (Amendments) made to it were those necessary to modern society, but sadly that is not the case.
Диявол любить ховатися за хрест
+: Voluntarism/panarchism.
-: Authoritarian stuff.
Economic: +8.44 right
Social: +8.89 libertarian
Foreign-Policy: +10 non-interventionist
Cultural: +2.24 liberal

*This anti-subsidy, anti-IP persona brought to you by your friends at Monsanto[TM][R] and Koch Industries[TM][R]!*

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The Norse Hordes
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Founded: Sep 08, 2009
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Postby The Norse Hordes » Fri Sep 18, 2009 4:14 pm

Patriqvinia wrote:
Pevisopolis wrote:
Patriqvinia wrote:
Buxtahatche wrote:
G073nks wrote:of course it is. If you're not rich and can't afford to live here you should go somewhere else, why should everyone have the chance to achieve what the wealthiest have?


No one should get anything if it's stolen from someone else.
Thieves should be punished- even those within the government.

Socialism is the opposite of everything the US Constitution says.
Try reading it now and again.

Seconded a thousand Times!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Maybe the Constitution isn't quite perfect? That said, changes made to it to suit the needs of modern society, I believe, are a good thing, so long as the U.S. government even exists.


It's not that the constitution is flawed (it is), but the fact that Americans (U.S.) have no idea what exactly is behind the first page (even if they, did their limited knowledge of 18th century grammar would not grant them comprehension.) It would be nice if the only changes (Amendments) made to it were those necessary to modern society, but sadly that is not the case.


What are you on about.
Neesika wrote:Spongebob Squarepants turned my daughters into faggots.

Economic Left/Right: -9.62
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.23

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Utvara
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Founded: Jun 20, 2006
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Postby Utvara » Fri Sep 18, 2009 4:23 pm

Seventy years after the start of the Cold War, the Red Scare, and the blight on our nation's history known as McCarthy, and we're still going on about this bullshit?

:roll:
"To create a national fund, out of which there shall be paid to every person, when arrived at the age of twenty-one years, the sum of fifteen pounds sterling, as a compensation in part, for the loss of his or her natural inheritance, by the introduction of the system of landed property."
--Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice

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Patriqvinia
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Founded: Oct 08, 2008
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Postby Patriqvinia » Fri Sep 18, 2009 4:28 pm

The Norse Hordes wrote:
Patriqvinia wrote:
Buxtahatche wrote:
G073nks wrote:of course it is. If you're not rich and can't afford to live here you should go somewhere else, why should everyone have the chance to achieve what the wealthiest have?


No one should get anything if it's stolen from someone else.
Thieves should be punished- even those within the government.

Socialism is the opposite of everything the US Constitution says.
Try reading it now and again.

Seconded a thousand Times!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



The constitution says nothing about socialism.

Of course not, Marxism didn't even exist. But the underlying principles, for example, "To each according to his need, from each according to his ability" are in direct opposition to “A wise and frugal government… shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government.”
Диявол любить ховатися за хрест
+: Voluntarism/panarchism.
-: Authoritarian stuff.
Economic: +8.44 right
Social: +8.89 libertarian
Foreign-Policy: +10 non-interventionist
Cultural: +2.24 liberal

*This anti-subsidy, anti-IP persona brought to you by your friends at Monsanto[TM][R] and Koch Industries[TM][R]!*

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Pevisopolis
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Founded: Feb 22, 2008
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Postby Pevisopolis » Fri Sep 18, 2009 4:28 pm

Utvara wrote:Seventy years after the start of the Cold War, the Red Scare, and the blight on our nation's history known as McCarthy, and we're still going on about this bullshit?

:roll:


Best first post ever.

You, sir, get a cookie!

Image
Jesus God almighty man, look at that lot over there! They've spotted us!

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Patriqvinia
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Founded: Oct 08, 2008
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Postby Patriqvinia » Fri Sep 18, 2009 4:30 pm

The Norse Hordes wrote:
Patriqvinia wrote:
Unchecked Expansion wrote:
Patriqvinia wrote:and the results of this poll... :palm:

show that most people don't think the same as you. Some socialist ideas are good and useful, as the success of the EU shows

:rofl:

I personally find the truth to be hilarious.


Unless youre arguing that Western Europe isnt prosperous....?

Western Europe has almost always been prosperous, but some things are more important than general prosperity.
Диявол любить ховатися за хрест
+: Voluntarism/panarchism.
-: Authoritarian stuff.
Economic: +8.44 right
Social: +8.89 libertarian
Foreign-Policy: +10 non-interventionist
Cultural: +2.24 liberal

*This anti-subsidy, anti-IP persona brought to you by your friends at Monsanto[TM][R] and Koch Industries[TM][R]!*

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Unchecked Expansion
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Founded: May 06, 2009
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Postby Unchecked Expansion » Fri Sep 18, 2009 4:34 pm

Patriqvinia wrote:
The Norse Hordes wrote:
Patriqvinia wrote:
Unchecked Expansion wrote:
Patriqvinia wrote:and the results of this poll... :palm:

show that most people don't think the same as you. Some socialist ideas are good and useful, as the success of the EU shows

:rofl:

I personally find the truth to be hilarious.


Unless youre arguing that Western Europe isnt prosperous....?

Western Europe has almost always been prosperous, but some things are more important than general prosperity.

You're right! The rights, health and opportunities of the population are

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Patriqvinia
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Founded: Oct 08, 2008
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Postby Patriqvinia » Fri Sep 18, 2009 4:35 pm

Utvara wrote:Seventy years after the start of the Cold War, the Red Scare, and the blight on our nation's history known as McCarthy, and we're still going on about this bullshit?

:roll:

Moot point...
Диявол любить ховатися за хрест
+: Voluntarism/panarchism.
-: Authoritarian stuff.
Economic: +8.44 right
Social: +8.89 libertarian
Foreign-Policy: +10 non-interventionist
Cultural: +2.24 liberal

*This anti-subsidy, anti-IP persona brought to you by your friends at Monsanto[TM][R] and Koch Industries[TM][R]!*

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Patriqvinia
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Founded: Oct 08, 2008
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Postby Patriqvinia » Fri Sep 18, 2009 4:40 pm

Unchecked Expansion wrote:
Patriqvinia wrote:
The Norse Hordes wrote:
Patriqvinia wrote:
Unchecked Expansion wrote:
Patriqvinia wrote:and the results of this poll... :palm:

show that most people don't think the same as you. Some socialist ideas are good and useful, as the success of the EU shows

:rofl:

I personally find the truth to be hilarious.


Unless youre arguing that Western Europe isnt prosperous....?

Western Europe has almost always been prosperous, but some things are more important than general prosperity.

You're right! The rights, health and opportunities of the population are

Independence as well, which is why I find social constructs like the EU very distasteful.
Диявол любить ховатися за хрест
+: Voluntarism/panarchism.
-: Authoritarian stuff.
Economic: +8.44 right
Social: +8.89 libertarian
Foreign-Policy: +10 non-interventionist
Cultural: +2.24 liberal

*This anti-subsidy, anti-IP persona brought to you by your friends at Monsanto[TM][R] and Koch Industries[TM][R]!*

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Utvara
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Founded: Jun 20, 2006
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Postby Utvara » Fri Sep 18, 2009 4:42 pm

Patriqvinia wrote:
Utvara wrote:Seventy years after the start of the Cold War, the Red Scare, and the blight on our nation's history known as McCarthy, and we're still going on about this bullshit?

:roll:

Moot point...


Hardly.

In this day and age of free and open information, no one should be so ignorant as to believe that socialism/communism is some great threat to society. There are no red-tinged boogeymen under your beds, lying in wait for the day they will all rise up and overthrow the government, I assure you.
"To create a national fund, out of which there shall be paid to every person, when arrived at the age of twenty-one years, the sum of fifteen pounds sterling, as a compensation in part, for the loss of his or her natural inheritance, by the introduction of the system of landed property."
--Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice

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Tech-gnosis
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Postby Tech-gnosis » Fri Sep 18, 2009 4:44 pm

Patriqvinia wrote:Independence as well, which is why I find social constructs like the EU very distasteful.


Property rights, nations, ethnicities, families, corporation, ect are all social constructs.

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Patriqvinia
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Postby Patriqvinia » Fri Sep 18, 2009 4:48 pm

Utvara wrote:
Patriqvinia wrote:
Utvara wrote:Seventy years after the start of the Cold War, the Red Scare, and the blight on our nation's history known as McCarthy, and we're still going on about this bullshit?

:roll:

Moot point...


Hardly.

In this day and age of free and open information, no one should be so ignorant as to believe that socialism/communism is some great threat to society. There are no red-tinged boogeymen under your beds, lying in wait for the day they will all rise up and overthrow the government, I assure you.

I suppose someone who sees no problem with communism would assure me that it poses no threat to society... However, as I am a Ukranian and an American, you will have difficulty convincing me otherwise... And, as an aside, how can they overthrow the government if they ARE the government :blink:
Last edited by Patriqvinia on Fri Sep 18, 2009 4:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Диявол любить ховатися за хрест
+: Voluntarism/panarchism.
-: Authoritarian stuff.
Economic: +8.44 right
Social: +8.89 libertarian
Foreign-Policy: +10 non-interventionist
Cultural: +2.24 liberal

*This anti-subsidy, anti-IP persona brought to you by your friends at Monsanto[TM][R] and Koch Industries[TM][R]!*

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Unchecked Expansion
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Postby Unchecked Expansion » Fri Sep 18, 2009 4:49 pm

Patriqvinia wrote:Independence as well, which is why I find social constructs like the EU very distasteful.

However, the formation of the EU is not associated with the adoption of social welfare in its members. It is simply an example of a large group of countries which have succeded by capitalist reckoning despite having welfare, universal healthcare and in several cases state housing. Your opinion of the EU is not connected to the question at hand

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Patriqvinia
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Postby Patriqvinia » Fri Sep 18, 2009 4:51 pm

Tech-gnosis wrote:
Patriqvinia wrote:Independence as well, which is why I find social constructs like the EU very distasteful.


Property rights, nations, ethnicities, families, corporation, ect are all social constructs.

Uh, yeah... So, is there an objective point, or are you just sharing information with us?
Диявол любить ховатися за хрест
+: Voluntarism/panarchism.
-: Authoritarian stuff.
Economic: +8.44 right
Social: +8.89 libertarian
Foreign-Policy: +10 non-interventionist
Cultural: +2.24 liberal

*This anti-subsidy, anti-IP persona brought to you by your friends at Monsanto[TM][R] and Koch Industries[TM][R]!*

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Utvara
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Founded: Jun 20, 2006
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Postby Utvara » Fri Sep 18, 2009 4:55 pm

Patriqvinia wrote:
Utvara wrote:
Patriqvinia wrote:
Utvara wrote:Seventy years after the start of the Cold War, the Red Scare, and the blight on our nation's history known as McCarthy, and we're still going on about this bullshit?

:roll:

Moot point...


Hardly.

In this day and age of free and open information, no one should be so ignorant as to believe that socialism/communism is some great threat to society. There are no red-tinged boogeymen under your beds, lying in wait for the day they will all rise up and overthrow the government, I assure you.

I suppose someone who sees no problem with communism would assure me that it poses no threat to society... However, as I am a Ukranian and an American, you will have difficulty convincing me otherwise... And, as an aside, how can they overthrow the government if they ARE the government :blink:


Oh, so you're one of those people--that makes this much easier for me to understand.

What's being Ukranian have to do with anything? Gonna try and convince me next that the actions of the USSR reflect on socialism/communsim as a whole?

:eyebrow:

edit: Or, for that matter, that the USSR was a truly communist nation in anything but name? Please--hopes for true communism in Russia died when Stalin took hold of power.

double edit: I am not a communist, for the record.
Last edited by Utvara on Fri Sep 18, 2009 4:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"To create a national fund, out of which there shall be paid to every person, when arrived at the age of twenty-one years, the sum of fifteen pounds sterling, as a compensation in part, for the loss of his or her natural inheritance, by the introduction of the system of landed property."
--Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice

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Tech-gnosis
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Postby Tech-gnosis » Fri Sep 18, 2009 4:57 pm

Patriqvinia wrote:Uh, yeah... So, is there an objective point, or are you just sharing information with us?


So why do you find certain social constructs like the EU distasteful while you enjoy a number of other social constructs, presumably.

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Patriqvinia
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Founded: Oct 08, 2008
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Postby Patriqvinia » Fri Sep 18, 2009 5:05 pm

Utvara wrote:
Patriqvinia wrote:
Utvara wrote:
Patriqvinia wrote:
Utvara wrote:Seventy years after the start of the Cold War, the Red Scare, and the blight on our nation's history known as McCarthy, and we're still going on about this bullshit?

:roll:

Moot point...


Hardly.

In this day and age of free and open information, no one should be so ignorant as to believe that socialism/communism is some great threat to society. There are no red-tinged boogeymen under your beds, lying in wait for the day they will all rise up and overthrow the government, I assure you.

I suppose someone who sees no problem with communism would assure me that it poses no threat to society... However, as I am a Ukranian and an American, you will have difficulty convincing me otherwise... And, as an aside, how can they overthrow the government if they ARE the government :blink:


Oh, so you're one of those people--that makes this much easier for me to understand.

What's being Ukranian have to do with anything? Gonna try and convince me next that the actions of the USSR reflect on socialism/communsim at a whole?

:eyebrow:


Well, I've got to say convincing a Uke how great communism is is akin to convincing a Jew that national socialism is the way to go...
But no... I'm not going to convince you that the Soviet Union reflects communism as a whole; however, it is but one example of how communism can be abused. I can't convince you of the ills of socialism or communism anymore more than I could an officer of the USSR, you will have to experience them, like say, a veteran of the Gulf War who experienced the horrors of the veteran's hospitals.
Диявол любить ховатися за хрест
+: Voluntarism/panarchism.
-: Authoritarian stuff.
Economic: +8.44 right
Social: +8.89 libertarian
Foreign-Policy: +10 non-interventionist
Cultural: +2.24 liberal

*This anti-subsidy, anti-IP persona brought to you by your friends at Monsanto[TM][R] and Koch Industries[TM][R]!*

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Bavin
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Founded: May 11, 2009
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Postby Bavin » Fri Sep 18, 2009 5:06 pm

Conservatives states wrote:
Mad hatters in jeans wrote:actually he's got a point. politics used to be viewed as left and right wing, then it was viewed
left, right, authoritarian, anarchist.
now i'd say it's viewed as a sphere certain views will link into one another, others will be polar opposites.


His point isn't a good one. Find the right shade is key? No just let people govern there own god damn lives, and stop taxing people. If people want to put there money towards a government program, then allow them to do so after receiving all of there money. Anarchism for me at least, isn't the absence of government, it's the absence of the state which has a tax monopoly and doesn't have to abide by the rules of every day life.

You. Ever hear of the Articles of Confederation? You know, the liberatarian's dream version of the Constitution? That's what you are describing. FYI: the Articles failed. Epically.
The Earth is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena. Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that, in glory and triumph, they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot. Think of the endless cruelties visited by the inhabitants of one corner of this pixel on the scarcely distinguishable inhabitants of some other corner, how frequent their misunderstandings, how eager they are to kill one another, how fervent their hatreds.- Carl Sagan

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