Another blogger killed by the Zetas.

[North Calaveras]

Cause you have a better idea huh?

I'm just giving my "ill-conceived" opinion on the matter. I would never want Mexico to collapse, I never even hinted towards that. I would be more down to instal a military dictatorship.

There are plenty of better ideas, and all of them cost less money and kill less people.

at least my idea has been put into practice by the US before

[New Manvir]

There are plenty of better ideas, and all of them cost less money and kill less people.

at least my idea has been put into practice by the US before

Is that supposed to be a good thing?

[North Calaveras]

at least my idea has been put into practice by the US before

Is that supposed to be a good thing?

possibly

[New Manvir]

Is that supposed to be a good thing?

possibly

I suppose it does depend on your perspective.

[North Calaveras]

possibly

I suppose it does depend on your perspective.

Yes...I suppose it does

[The Grand World Order]

I want to see what would happen in a hypothetical situation where the IRGC or Russia's FSB/Spetsnaz (or hell, even the Russian Mafia) got involved in the whole cartel situation, even if it is virtually impossible (except for the last case.)


Always remember: Sicily was owned by the mob, who were far from the American mobsters you see in the movies. It took "Uncle Benny" (that is, Mussolini) and Cesare Mori. Good bye mob, until the Allies literally gave the former mob bosses positions as governors. It's possible to beat them.

[New Manvir]

Always remember: Sicily was owned by the mob, who were far from the American mobsters you see in the movies. It took "Uncle Benny" (that is, Mussolini) and Cesare Mori. Good bye mob, until the Allies literally gave the former mob bosses positions as governors. It's possible to beat them.

You've missed the point completely. Of course it's POSSIBLE to beat them, it's a question of which method is the wisest to use to beat them: repealing a bunch of stupid laws that don't work, or fighting a massive war in Mexico.

[Risottia]

Ooh, Zetas, you so cool, you hang fat nerds.

Who the fuck can take these guys seriously? They're the late-20s version of the high school bully. Kick 'em in the nuts and they'll learn their place.

Seriously? They're just about the most dangerous organised crime syndicate on the planet. "Kicking them in the nuts" is what the Mexican government has tried for years. And it lost and is a failed state now, at least in the parts of the country the cartels call their own.

My two cents:
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operazione ... _Siciliani

In Sicily from 1992 to 1998 the Mafia suffered huge setbacks, because, while the prosecutors and the police forces attacked the top levels by "tracking the money" (as Giovanni Falcone said), the military controlled the territory. Yeah, with tanks for roadblocks, too.

Something similar happened in Apulia in the late '90s, when the Apulian mafia (Sacra Corona Unita) managed the tobacco and arms smuggling from Albania. They even had homemade armoured cars... the Guardia di Finanza, being part of the Army, countered by ambushing and ramming them with B1 Centauro.

[The Grand World Order]

Always remember: Sicily was owned by the mob, who were far from the American mobsters you see in the movies. It took "Uncle Benny" (that is, Mussolini) and Cesare Mori. Good bye mob, until the Allies literally gave the former mob bosses positions as governors. It's possible to beat them.

You've missed the point completely. Of course it's POSSIBLE to beat them, it's a question of which method is the wisest to use to beat them: repealing a bunch of stupid laws that don't work, or fighting a massive war in Mexico.

Legalizing pot? Pot's not even physically addictive.

You legalize pot, 80% of potheads will stop cause it's not cool anymore and the cartels simply step up production of cocaine and other "hard" drugs that you'd be insane to legalize.

Besides, haven't the Zetas done enough to the Mexican people to warrant their violent destruction, anyways? You're not just dealing with bad businessmen. You're not going to beat them with prosecutors. You're not going to beat them by legalizing pot. You're facing groups who can take on third world armies, and you're going to need bullets, explosives, and the will to do reprehensible things to destroy them.

[Mushet]

Hackers vs Murderers

[Wikipedia and Universe]

So then in that case I just revert to Plan B, where I capture a lieutenant, tie him to a chair, turn a running video camera on him, do something really fucking sadistic, and then make copies of the tape and send them to the Zetas leaders with the note “You're next” attached. The way to deal with sick fucks is show them you're sicker.

You thinking what I'm thinking?

[New Manvir]

You've missed the point completely. Of course it's POSSIBLE to beat them, it's a question of which method is the wisest to use to beat them: repealing a bunch of stupid laws that don't work, or fighting a massive war in Mexico.

Legalizing pot? Pot's not even physically addictive.

You legalize pot, 80% of potheads will stop cause it's not cool anymore and the cartels simply step up production of cocaine and other "hard" drugs that you'd be insane to legalize.

I dispute that point. Legalizing all drugs would be less harmful than prohibition. As you said yourself "80% of potheads will stop cause it's not cool anymore", if you look at countries like Portugal and others with more liberal drug laws you can see this holds true for harder drugs as well. Furthermore, the people who do continue using these drugs would be in much better shape. They would be able to afford their habit easier, meaning they wouldn't have to resort to crime and would probably even be able to hold regular jobs. The drugs themselves would be better controlled and regulated by the government, as opposed to the complete lack of oversight and regulation in the industry now. Organized crime would lose out on billions in revenue, leaving it essentially bankrupt. In fact, I see very few downsides to full legalization of all drugs.

Besides, haven't the Zetas done enough to the Mexican people to warrant their violent destruction, anyways? You're not just dealing with bad businessmen. You're not going to beat them with prosecutors. You're not going to beat them by legalizing pot. You're facing groups who can take on third world armies, and you're going to need bullets, explosives, and the will to do reprehensible things to destroy them.

Yeah they're assholes, but you can't expect to just blow up every problem you see.

[New Manvir]

Seriously? They're just about the most dangerous organised crime syndicate on the planet. "Kicking them in the nuts" is what the Mexican government has tried for years. And it lost and is a failed state now, at least in the parts of the country the cartels call their own.

My two cents:
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operazione ... _Siciliani

In Sicily from 1992 to 1998 the Mafia suffered huge setbacks, because, while the prosecutors and the police forces attacked the top levels by "tracking the money" (as Giovanni Falcone said), the military controlled the territory. Yeah, with tanks for roadblocks, too.

Something similar happened in Apulia in the late '90s, when the Apulian mafia (Sacra Corona Unita) managed the tobacco and arms smuggling from Albania. They even had homemade armoured cars... the Guardia di Finanza, being part of the Army, countered by ambushing and ramming them with B1 Centauro.

But has that solved the problem or just put a band-aid on it? Does the demand for illicit drugs still exist? Because if so, I'm willing to bet some new mafia will just take their place.

[Urceo-Carthage]

Why doesn't America just send soldiers into Mexico, and train the Mexican military and police forces to actually DO THEIR JOBS, and maybe, just maybe, these pussy ass drug cartels will finally stop thinking they're so tough. Someone will probably respond to this saying the Zetas are ex special forces, I know that. I highly doubt a MEXICAN special forces member can do anything to the US Army, nevermind the Marines or SOCOM.

[Tubbsalot]

I highly doubt a MEXICAN special forces member can do anything to the US Army

[Urceo-Carthage]

I highly doubt a MEXICAN special forces member can do anything to the US Army

No, that wasn't racism, that was just saying that the Mexican military sucks, it's training is terrible, and it's a third world nation obviously incapable of defending itself. I personally don't like the Army, but I have to admit, it is alot better than most.

[Norstal]

No, that wasn't racism, that was just saying that the Mexican military sucks, it's training is terrible, and it's a third world nation obviously incapable of defending itself. I personally don't like the Army, but I have to admit, it is alot better than most.

Hint: the Zetas were made from former Mexican special forces members.

[Urceo-Carthage]

No, that wasn't racism, that was just saying that the Mexican military sucks, it's training is terrible, and it's a third world nation obviously incapable of defending itself. I personally don't like the Army, but I have to admit, it is alot better than most.

Hint: the Zetas were made from former Mexican special forces members.

As I said, I know. What I meant is that even if they are former special forces, their training in the Mexican Special forces is nearly useless compared to even the US Army.

[Wikipedia and Universe]

Hint: the Zetas were made from former Mexican special forces members.

As I said, I know. What I meant is that even if they are former special forces, their training in the Mexican Special forces is nearly useless compared to even the US Army.

Those particular Mexican Special Forces happened to have trained with the US Army at Fort Benning, IIRC.

[Tubbsalot]

Okay, here are the problems with what you're saying:

1. The Mexican police and military have been doing their jobs, and nonetheless they haven't been successful in stemming gang activity. Gangs, like other forms of organised crime, are notoriously difficult to stamp out.

2. The US is already training Mexican security forces. I will note that it has been moderately successful in increasing the ability of Mexican government forces to combat the gangs.

3. Mexican special forces, like all special forces, are nothing to dismiss. This is particularly the case because you can't just roll into a town with tanks and start blowing everything up. The situation is more like Iraq, except the insurgents are special forces troops rather than brainwashed fourteen-year-olds.

4. The drug cartels are extremely formidable. Your assessment of them as "pussy ass" is uninformed, at best.

5. America cannot send troops into Mexico because a) they are dealing with their national debt, and therefore cannot afford another serious military deployment, b) public opinion would prohibit such a military deployment, and c) the next election is approaching and the Obama administration isn't brainfucked stupid enough to do anything so controversial right now.

[Urceo-Carthage]

As I said, I know. What I meant is that even if they are former special forces, their training in the Mexican Special forces is nearly useless compared to even the US Army.

Those particular Mexican Special Forces happened to have trained with the US Army at Fort Benning, IIRC.

An unorganized group of former special forces versus updated (as in technology, tactics, logistics, etc), active special forces or soldiers, or Marines; I'd say the active US military wins.

[Zuan]

Hint: the Zetas were made from former Mexican special forces members.

As I said, I know. What I meant is that even if they are former special forces, their training in the Mexican Special forces is nearly useless compared to even the US Army.

What do you think we are doing? We ARE sending in our SpecOps in compounded teams that include the best from all branches of the military. It's a world response unit and they've been buzzing around and through Mexico, the middle east, and South America for years now, doing everything they can.
But here's the problem, while I agree that our guys have better training, the Zetas are freaking NUTS, with a good number of them hyped up on all kinds of substances. That causes a fairly large problem for even elite strike units like what we have.

[Zuan]

Those particular Mexican Special Forces happened to have trained with the US Army at Fort Benning, IIRC.

An unorganized group of former special forces versus updated (as in technology, tactics, logistics, etc), active special forces or soldiers, or Marines; I'd say the active US military wins.

I now point again to my previous statement.

[Urceo-Carthage]

Okay, here are the problems with what you're saying:

1. The Mexican police and military have been doing their jobs, and nonetheless they haven't been successful in stemming gang activity. Gangs, like other forms of organised crime, are notoriously difficult to stamp out.

2. The US is already training Mexican security forces. I will note that it has been moderately successful in increasing the ability of Mexican government forces to combat the gangs.

3. Mexican special forces, like all special forces, are nothing to dismiss. This is particularly the case because you can't just roll into a town with tanks and start blowing everything up. The situation is more like Iraq, except the insurgents are special forces troops rather than brainwashed fourteen-year-olds.

4. The drug cartels are extremely formidable. Your assessment of them as "pussy ass" is uninformed, at best.

5. America cannot send troops into Mexico because a) they are dealing with their national debt, and therefore cannot afford another serious military deployment, b) public opinion would prohibit such a military deployment, and c) the next election is approaching and the Obama administration isn't brainfucked stupid enough to do anything so controversial right now.

1) The US doesn't have massive cartels taking control of areas, making theirselves known, then the government watches and does nothing.
2) The Mexicans are corrupt, and no matter how hard we help train them, they will always plain out suck, until Mexico gets it's shit together.
3) I never said they were something to dismiss, all I said was that even the most basic US soldier is far better than a former Mexican special forces member.
4) They are unorganized, they rule by fear, and threatening things they cannot deliver, and think that they are more powerful than everyone else.
5) The United States is screwing itself over, with help from Obama. The US needs to bring jobs back over here, and stop importing everything from Asia. This will make the US richer, allowing it to pay off it's debt quicker. Theres no chance in hell that Obama is being re-elected, so he might as well do something smart now. Posting more soldiers at the Mexican border and sending special forces in to deal with the cartels is a smart move. The "public opinion" is mostly made up of people like the "occupy" idiots, that hate the country and want to help destroy it. If they knew what was good for the US, they would not mind.

[Urceo-Carthage]

As I said, I know. What I meant is that even if they are former special forces, their training in the Mexican Special forces is nearly useless compared to even the US Army.

What do you think we are doing? We ARE sending in our SpecOps in compounded teams that include the best from all branches of the military. It's a world response unit and they've been buzzing around and through Mexico, the middle east, and South America for years now, doing everything they can.
But here's the problem, while I agree that our guys have better training, the Zetas are freaking NUTS, with a good number of them hyped up on all kinds of substances. That causes a fairly large problem for even elite strike units like what we have.

Bombs and bullets go right around those "substances". Hell, if it was up to me, I would just launch a full scale invasion of Mexico, wipe out all the drug cartels and plants, and establish a government that can actually defend itself, and support it's own country. Sadly, it isn't up to me. I'm not saying send in 50-100 special forces, and get the job done, I mean send in a few thousand soldiers that coordinate with the Mexican government to take out the cartels.