Another blogger killed by the Zetas.

[Raw Nation]

Some people doubted his ability to defeat one of these thugs in single combat

I must confess I had my doubts at first

I did not realize he had nuclear weapons, chemical weapons, etc, etc, at his his disposal

On behalf of everyone in this thread I apologize, Mr President

Good luck with your campaigning and travel safely

[Urceo-Carthage]

Clearly your sense of humor is in need of afixin'.

[Raw Nation]

Actually I find you very funny - not just in this thread but also your many casual jokes you work into speeches

The one about wearing a suit in Hawaii today was pretty good

[New England and The Maritimes]

This is America's responsibility. End the war on drugs, and then start providing massive military assistance to Mexico. It's not a good state of affairs for anyone but these scumbags to keep Mexico on the brink of a failed state just below our borders.

[Urceo-Carthage]

This is America's responsibility. End the war on drugs, and then start providing massive military assistance to Mexico. It's not a good state of affairs for anyone but these scumbags to keep Mexico on the brink of a failed state just below our borders.

Yeah, let's start providing military assistance in the form of a 50MT nuclear warhead (just ask Russia for one!)

[Fnordgasm 5]

Not the Zetas, not have I ever even been to Mexico, but I assume that another third world country with a barbaric insurgent problem should suffice. I may not be correct on some things, but you cannot possibly disagree that a former Mexican Special forces soldier can take down the SEALs, MARSOC and the such.

Okay, as before mentioned, special forces are a world standard. Yes, different group specialize in different areas of combat, stealth, etc (hence being SPECIAL forces), but they are, in general, with the same amount of training and generally the same grade equipment, even if the basic soldiers of that same militant group are of lower quality/grade. Then you put into account that these guys are maliciously preforming the tasks that most of our SpecOps groups only train for. THEN you put into account that Mexico is NOT a third world country and actually is much more formitable that you give it credit for. And I am NOT dismissing or down-talking our own forces, as I know what they are capable of and lived with one for years, I am only pointing out that you are underestimating theirs.
So, before opening your mouth and claiming superiority over a group you have not seen or fought, maybe you should double check your information and assumptions.

I think it's important to note that a lot of the original special forces Zetas have either been captured or killed either by law enforcement or rivals. While still scary as fuck they're now more trained by special forces than trained as special forces. Still, you wouldn't fuck with them if you preferred your body parts to be somewhat connected.

[Anitgrum]

How?

National Gendarmerie anyone? Spanish Civil Guard? Carabinieri? RCMP (up until like the 50s)? Russian MVD? South African Police?

I think the USA is a minority in that it doesn't use the military for its law enforcement.

They do, actually. Just more rarely.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_Nationa ... th_century

On September 24, 1957 President Dwight D. Eisenhower federalized the entire Arkansas National Guard in order to ensure the safe entry of the Little Rock 9 to Little Rock Central High School the following day. Governor Orval Faubus had previously used members of the guard to deny the students entry to the school.

The New York National Guard were ordered by Governor Nelson A. Rockefeller to respond to the Rochester 1964 race riot in July of that year, the first such use of the Guard in a Northern city. The California Army National Guard were mobilized by the Governor of California Edmund Gerald Brown, Sr. during the Watts Riots, in August 1965, to provide security and help restore order.

Elements of the Ohio Army National Guard were ordered to Kent State University by Ohio's governor Jim Rhodes to quell anti-Vietnam War protests, culminating in their shooting into a crowd of students on 4 May 1970, killing four and injuring nine.

During the LA Riots in 1992, when portions of south central Los Angeles erupted in chaos, overwhelming the Los Angeles Police Department's ability to contain the violence, the California National Guard were mobilized to help restore order. The National Guard were attributed with five shootings of people suspected of violating the curfew order placed on the city.

During the Waco Siege in 1993 the Texas National Guard was called in to assist the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives in bringing down the Branch Davidians, the National Guard's involvement was mostly for defensive purposes. The ATF suspected that the Branch Davidians could be armed with powerful weapons, and so the M1A1 Abrams tanks were used to protect the ATF's retreat area, some National Guard helicopters were also used to do reconnaissance work and an unknown number of National Guard snipers assisted the ATF in the final assault.

1 He also sent in elements form the 101st Airborne Division. The Federalized Arkansas National Guard assumed full responsibility a month later.
2 The first time the National Guard were called in to a northern city was during the New York draft riot of 1864.

[The Lone Alliance]

And we've gotten to the "nuke everything" phased of the thread. Swell.

In all seriousness, threads like this always make me curious about diseases that affect the plants a lot of these drugs come from. I gotta make friends with someone studying phytopathology or something.

Problem with nukes? Disease you say?

Chemical weapons anyone?

What? You going to hit a Zeta camp with nerve gas or something?

They'll just start making their own in return, shouldn't be too hard with all the meth labs....

[Urceo-Carthage]

What? You going to hit a Zeta camp with nerve gas or something?

They'll just start making their own in return, shouldn't be too hard with all the meth labs....

It was a joke... Instead of using Nuclear weapons, use a different kind of WMD. Derp

[Hallistar]

You have any idea who the Zetas are? They are one of the largest, most dangerous, and most sadistic drug cartels in existence. They are responsible for tens of thousands of deaths, and virtually nothing is known about them. In particular, they are known for excessively brutal killings for even the small slight against them.

Also, they are Guatemalan Ex-Special forces. They are hardly the "late-20s version of the high school bully." They will straight up murder you, your family, your dog, your cat, your friends, your friend's family, your friend's friends, your friend's friend's family, and that one go who you talked to on the street for a few minutes last week, all just because you screwed with them a little bit.

Hell, they are killing members of a community who are generally known for being extremely difficult to find to State authorities, let alone.

So then in that case I just revert to Plan B, where I capture a lieutenant, tie him to a chair, turn a running video camera on him, do something really fucking sadistic, and then make copies of the tape and send them to the Zetas leaders with the note “You're next” attached.

The way to deal with sick fucks is show them you're sicker. That said the Zetas don't really seem that badass when all they do is hang a bunch of bloggers.

They won't get scared. They're beyond rehabilitation, and I'm not sure how turning into the same low monsters as them is going to make anything better except bring out some kind of all out war and murder charges.

[Azakhia]

Sometimes you have to be willing to play the game the exact same way they do. The same way that the Soviets did in the 80's, when some of their diplomats were kidnapped in Lebanon.

In late September 1985, pro-Iranian Shiites put the snatch on four attaches from the Russian Embassy in Beirut and warned that the hostages would be executed, one by one, unless the Soviets persuaded pro-Syrian militiamen to stop shelling Hezbollah strongholds in the Lebanese port city of Tripoli.

On that occasion, the "Oppressed of the Earth" were billing themselves as agents of the hitherto unknown "Islamic Liberation Organization," but the KBG had no doubts about who they really were.

Although the Soviets attempted to open channels for quiet negotiations, there was no let-up in the shellings. Only two days after the kidnappings, the body of one of the four hostages was found, shot through the head, on a Beirut trash dump.

So much for quiet negotiations. Having gotten the message, the Soviets decided to send one back.

KGB agents ran the name of a prominent Hezbollah leader through their computers and came up with the name and address of one of his closest blood relatives. They then kidnapped the kinsman, castrated him, and sent his severed organs to the Hezbollah honcho.

The package was accompanied by a terse cover note indicating that the KGB had the names of other close relatives and that Hezbollah could expect more such deliveries unless the three remaining hostages were freed forthwith.

It didn't take much time for Hezbollah to realize it was dealing with a different breed of "Great Satan." The three surviving hostages were dropped off only 150 yards from the Soviet Embassy from a late-model BMW that couldn't drive away fast enough.

Gorbachev didn't call a press conference to brag about what bad-asses his boys were, but Hezbollah obviously concluded that challenging the Russians could lead to more painful consequences than simply losing face.

It's worth noting that this was the last anyone ever heard of the "Islamic Liberation Organization."

By not-so-remarkable coincidence, it was also the last time Hezbollah ever messed with any Soviets in Lebanon.

http://articles.philly.com/1988-02-26/news/26242928_1_islamic-liberation-organization-soviets-hezbollah

What we have to decide is, do we let the situation continue; or do we fight fire with fire? Because I will guarantee that once their leadership understands that they and their nex of kin are receiving the same dosaget they hand out, it will stop.

[Raw Nation]

Sometimes you have to be willing to play the game the exact same way they do. The same way that the Soviets did in the 80's, when some of their diplomats were kidnapped in Lebanon.

In late September 1985, pro-Iranian Shiites put the snatch on four attaches from the Russian Embassy in Beirut and warned that the hostages would be executed, one by one, unless the Soviets persuaded pro-Syrian militiamen to stop shelling Hezbollah strongholds in the Lebanese port city of Tripoli.

On that occasion, the "Oppressed of the Earth" were billing themselves as agents of the hitherto unknown "Islamic Liberation Organization," but the KBG had no doubts about who they really were.

Although the Soviets attempted to open channels for quiet negotiations, there was no let-up in the shellings. Only two days after the kidnappings, the body of one of the four hostages was found, shot through the head, on a Beirut trash dump.

So much for quiet negotiations. Having gotten the message, the Soviets decided to send one back.

KGB agents ran the name of a prominent Hezbollah leader through their computers and came up with the name and address of one of his closest blood relatives. They then kidnapped the kinsman, castrated him, and sent his severed organs to the Hezbollah honcho.

The package was accompanied by a terse cover note indicating that the KGB had the names of other close relatives and that Hezbollah could expect more such deliveries unless the three remaining hostages were freed forthwith.

It didn't take much time for Hezbollah to realize it was dealing with a different breed of "Great Satan." The three surviving hostages were dropped off only 150 yards from the Soviet Embassy from a late-model BMW that couldn't drive away fast enough.

Gorbachev didn't call a press conference to brag about what bad-asses his boys were, but Hezbollah obviously concluded that challenging the Russians could lead to more painful consequences than simply losing face.

It's worth noting that this was the last anyone ever heard of the "Islamic Liberation Organization."

By not-so-remarkable coincidence, it was also the last time Hezbollah ever messed with any Soviets in Lebanon.

http://articles.philly.com/1988-02-26/news/26242928_1_islamic-liberation-organization-soviets-hezbollah

What we have to decide is, do we let the situation continue; or do we fight fire with fire? Because I will guarantee that once their leadership understands that they and their nex of kin are receiving the same dosaget they hand out, it will stop.

This is a very interesting story

Did the KGB use such harsh methods with any other Muslim "freedom fighter" organizations during the 70s and 80s for comparison purposes?

[Azakhia]

Sometimes you have to be willing to play the game the exact same way they do. The same way that the Soviets did in the 80's, when some of their diplomats were kidnapped in Lebanon.


http://articles.philly.com/1988-02-26/news/26242928_1_islamic-liberation-organization-soviets-hezbollah

What we have to decide is, do we let the situation continue; or do we fight fire with fire? Because I will guarantee that once their leadership understands that they and their nex of kin are receiving the same dosaget they hand out, it will stop.

This is a very interesting story

Did the KGB use such harsh methods with any other Muslim "freedom fighter" organizations during the 70s and 80s for comparison purposes?

No.

Keep in mind that in the 70's and 80's the world was rife with all sort of terrorist groups. From the IRA in Ireland and the UK, Baader-Meinhoff in then West Germany, ETA and Basque in Spain, Red Brigade in then West Germany and Italy, and the other various freedom fighter groups.

After the Soviet response, not a single group wanted to poke the Soviet bear again.

[Raw Nation]

I seem to remember the Soviet bear having a small amount of indigestion at this time...

Perhaps something to do with the deaths of a million Muslims or so following some KGB action or other?

[Azakhia]

I seem to remember the Soviet bear having a small amount of indigestion at this time...

Perhaps something to do with the deaths of a million Muslims or so following some KGB action or other?

They should have studied their future enemy. How many times has Afghanistan been invaded? And when they chase the invaders out of the country, they fight each other.

[Raw Nation]

It's good America has the foresight to know people don't like being invaded/assassinated for their own good

[Ararna]

I guess the Anons were internet tough guys after all, and not so formidable in real life...

[The Atlantean Menace]

This.

Mexico is screwed, Honduras, Guatemala and so on are even more screwed. And all because of the war on drugs. If you let big pharma provide cocaine and methadone on a large scale, you take away the demand and the cartels will eat themselves up. It's not hard. It's just politically infeasible.

Umm..The Cartels such as Zetas have all the money and drugs they need hence the gold plated weapons and large stash houses of drugs, They want territory thats what they're fighting for territory, Not for money or drugs...no, they want Territory.

...Territory to sell, grow, and produce drugs and other forms of income on.

[Central Slavia]

Sorry but this is stupid as hell.
You take away drugs, cartels will move more onto the next types of dark profits - trade in prostitutes, trade in weapons, trade in organs, extortion, robberies.
Not like it's hard to find a source of profits when you have a bunch of armed guys with training and idle hands.

Are you actually arguing that only their involvement in the drug trade is keeping the zetas away from other illegal activities? If so, that is as stupid as hell. They will expand into other criminal activities anyway, if they haven't already. Drug money is their main source of income so removing it is a positive step in reducing their power.

No, so stuff your straw man back behind your hat.
What I am saying is that citing legalising drugs as an effective way to removing the cartels from power is utterly idiotic, because even if drugs stop being the thing big money is in, there are a lot of other things that still are worth them.
For an analogy, if you have ants in your kitchen, it won't help removing the cake from the table when there's still the bread there, and a bowl of potatoes. What helps is using RAID/Biolit.
Oh, the only difference? Unlike the bread and potatoes, you can't really deal with stuff like organ, weapon , and human trade by legalising everything.
In other words, legalizing drugs to "starve cartels" while (necessarily) keeping other illegal profit pathways open is on par with troll logic posters.
Never mind all the bad effects legalising drugs would have on the population of the US.

[Paragade]

Maybe legalizing only weed but all the other drugs jus tseem too dangerous.

[The Soviet Technocracy]

Never mind all the bad effects legalising drugs would have on the population of the US.

This is a troll logic post right here.

What bad effects? See: Portugal.

Criminalising something only makes it that much more used. Criminalisation and prohibition have the opposite effect in the USA than common sense would think. Legalise it, and usage will go down, people will come out about addictions and seek help without fear of being persecuted by legal tyrants and state sanctioned street thugs, and those damn kids will stop doing speed and pixie dust to piss off their parents.

Keep it prohibited, and use will continue to climb, addicts will get less support and help from the community that they need, and drug cartels will keep raking in stupid amounts of money. Most cartels, per their name, make most of their profit from drugs. Even if it doesn't stop them (if you honestly think there is a silver bullet to criminal organisations like drug cartels and the Mafia, you're living a fantasy), it'll weaken their operations.

[Geniasis]

I said 'us'. No one should ever stand up for something they believe in unless they are prepared to die for it.

Oddly, reprisal against you, self-sacrifice, is relatively easy.

When your spouse, brother, or children may die for your idealism, it's harder to maintain.

That makes a lot of sense, actually.

If I'm getting myself killed for my own actions, then that's one thing. I face the consequences for my decisions, and if the cause is big enough to me then the punishment is worth bearing.

But then throw innocent people into the equation whose only crime is knowing me, and then it stops mattering how important the cause is and instead matters about whether or not I'm willing to get the people I love killed, and whether I feel like I even have the right to put them at risk.

Blood on your hands starts to matter when it isn't just yours.

[Greed and Death]

Oddly, reprisal against you, self-sacrifice, is relatively easy.

When your spouse, brother, or children may die for your idealism, it's harder to maintain.

That makes a lot of sense, actually.

If I'm getting myself killed for my own actions, then that's one thing. I face the consequences for my decisions, and if the cause is big enough to me then the punishment is worth bearing.

But then throw innocent people into the equation whose only crime is knowing me, and then it stops mattering how important the cause is and instead matters about whether or not I'm willing to get the people I love killed, and whether I feel like I even have the right to put them at risk.

Blood on your hands starts to matter when it isn't just yours.

Which is why I try to minimize my connections so I can do what I think is right no matter what.

[AiliailiA]

Are you actually arguing that only their involvement in the drug trade is keeping the zetas away from other illegal activities? If so, that is as stupid as hell. They will expand into other criminal activities anyway, if they haven't already. Drug money is their main source of income so removing it is a positive step in reducing their power.

No, so stuff your straw man back behind your hat.
What I am saying is that citing legalising drugs as an effective way to removing the cartels from power is utterly idiotic, because even if drugs stop being the thing big money is in, there are a lot of other things that still are worth them.
For an analogy, if you have ants in your kitchen, it won't help removing the cake from the table when there's still the bread there, and a bowl of potatoes. What helps is using RAID/Biolit.
Oh, the only difference? Unlike the bread and potatoes, you can't really deal with stuff like organ, weapon , and human trade by legalising everything.
In other words, legalizing drugs to "starve cartels" while (necessarily) keeping other illegal profit pathways open is on par with troll logic posters.

What other goods would cartels trade in, if drugs were legalized?

Illegal drugs are a huge industry. The only other "contraband" that could take its place is weaponry, and the market for that in the US is well provided already.

Never mind all the bad effects legalising drugs would have on the population of the US.

That's your real reason I suspect. You think drugs are bad and people who want to take it should be prevented from doing so. For their own good.

[Xsyne]

No, so stuff your straw man back behind your hat.
What I am saying is that citing legalising drugs as an effective way to removing the cartels from power is utterly idiotic, because even if drugs stop being the thing big money is in, there are a lot of other things that still are worth them.
For an analogy, if you have ants in your kitchen, it won't help removing the cake from the table when there's still the bread there, and a bowl of potatoes. What helps is using RAID/Biolit.
Oh, the only difference? Unlike the bread and potatoes, you can't really deal with stuff like organ, weapon , and human trade by legalising everything.
In other words, legalizing drugs to "starve cartels" while (necessarily) keeping other illegal profit pathways open is on par with troll logic posters.

What other goods would cartels trade in, if drugs were legalized?

Drugs, unless you plan on selling all prescription medications over the counter. People, unless you plan on legalizing slavery. Animals, unless you plan on legalizing the pet trade in endangered animals. Organs. Any restricted substances that are not drugs. And goods aren't the only method the cartels have of making money. They can make money off of transport, they've already penetrated the US market and it'd probably be much easier for various criminal enterprises to get goods to the cartels than it would be to get goods directly into the US.

Illegal drugs are a huge industry. The only other "contraband" that could take its place is weaponry, and the market for that in the US is well provided already.

By the cartels.