Choosing lesbianism.

[Demonatrix]

Here we go again, another insane thread...

Choose lesbianism? It's not a choice... You are, or you are not

Less likely to be abused by women? Hasn't been in many lesbian bars then...

Should be fun to watch, like saturday night in my local...

[Vellosia]

You can't choose to be a lesbian - you either are you aren't.

Oh is this one of those nonsensical arguments that goes, "sure you can form romantic relationships only with women for the rest of your life and engage only in lesbian sex, but you're still actually heterosexual?"

Ok sure, if people want to claim that doing this doesn't matter and I'm still a heterosexual, I suppose the claims are ultimately meaningless as it would change nothing.

Sexuality is what you're attracted to - not how you choose to live.

[Nightkill the Emperor]

Great. Hope your future relationships go well.

[The Yremia Corporate]

um, ok?

You know that, for people who want it, there is the ability to choose both. It is called being bi.

I choose not to choose men.

Then you aren't lesbian, you are asexual, as in a feminist!

[Femnipotent]

theres a philosophical theory that two opposites in the world or the mind are fighting it out to find a equilibrium. You have probably always been a lesbian, but your upbringing taught you it was wrong so you subconsiously pushed it down, but are now accepting it due to the equilibrium being found.

And this is the other nonsensical argument, that if I choose to have nothing to do romantically with men that I must have been a lesbian all along. Forget the fact that I was never attracted to women until I chose to be. No, it is much more important to shove things into little boxes and say 'this is this' and 'that is that' and pretend that it's all nature.

[Free Pangea]

Another thing: please don't let people make you feel like you have to be one way or the other just because it's "moral."

[The Yremia Corporate]

theres a philosophical theory that two opposites in the world or the mind are fighting it out to find a equilibrium. You have probably always been a lesbian, but your upbringing taught you it was wrong so you subconsiously pushed it down, but are now accepting it due to the equilibrium being found.

And this is the other nonsensical argument, that if I choose to have nothing to do romantically with men that I must have been a lesbian all along. Forget the fact that I was never attracted to women until I chose to be. No, it is much more important to shove things into little boxes and say 'this is this' and 'that is that' and pretend that it's all nature.

You were never attracted to women until you realised that they were the only thing getting you going more like, besides I hope you enjoy finding that least abusive partner.

[Femnipotent]

Oh, why do you think sexuality is an ideology? You may want to take care not to over-complicate your natural feelings. You might end up more confused in the end..

There is so little that is natural about our feelings, growing up in a society as we do that encourages some things and punishes other. We are so socialised that we cannot find what is 'natural' anymore. With this as a given, what does it matter if an individual chooses to socialise herself for a change?

[Nature-Spirits]

I am a male bisexual. And by the way, I am offended by your stereotypical view of men. I personally believe that a matriarchal society is ideal and find beating anyone repulsive (unless both agree and neither is hurt too badly).

[Mourro]

I'm not a woman, but I don't think that sexuality is a choice. I think, especially for gay/lesbian/bisexual individuals, it's rather a denial of one's instincts and a fear of potential consequences that force us to make conscious choices in retaliation to our sexuality. But I feel the fact remains that sexuality is natural and no matter how many processes or denials one goes through, the nature of one's sexuality cannot be changed.

Even if is true that the 'nature of one's sexuality cannot be changed', certainly your expression of it can. I do not want to be involved with men even though I was trained to want that. I choose now to only form romantic relationships with women. Somehow that is portrayed as being some sort of awful choice. There are plenty of very unhappy people in relationships with people they are sexually oriented towards, so it is not as though your sexuality guarantees you anything except a propensity to find certain things attractive.

Isn't it a bit like dyeing your hair? You can change the colour to make yourself look/feel better, but that's not your natural hair colour. I was certainly not trained to be 'involved' with other men either, but I am. So I too made a conscious decision to let my natural instincts determine my relationships. I think by deliberately avoiding men you instantly get rid of any chances of finding a man you may eventually come to love, and probably also at the same time fortify your dislike for them. Won't this lead to a bitter end? And sexuality never guaranteed anybody anything better than the next one...there are couples in ALL forms of sexual relationships who go through good and bad. THAT is natural, and if you feel that by choosing to avoid one gender you can somehow avoid the less-than-lovely aspects of relationships, then is this really a question of sexuality, or is it more to do with relationships with the opposite gender?

[Esternial]

Another thing: please don't let people make you feel like you have to be one way or the other just because it's "moral."

If anything you should do the opposite of what people want you to do just to screw with them.

Give it to The Man.

[Femnipotent]

I've found that almost all male homosexual men I've met knew they prefered men early in life. But about half the lesbians I've known switched to women after bad experiences with men.

So my personal view is that female homosexuality is less biological than male homosexuality. A good book on this is Sexual Fluidity. Unfortunately I forget the author.

Lisa Diamond, and it is an excellent book.

[Femnipotent]

If you've had a tendency to attract the absolute worst men you can, what makes you think that it will be any different with women?

Poor assumption.

[The Yremia Corporate]

Oh, why do you think sexuality is an ideology? You may want to take care not to over-complicate your natural feelings. You might end up more confused in the end..

There is so little that is natural about our feelings, growing up in a society as we do that encourages some things and punishes other. We are so socialised that we cannot find what is 'natural' anymore. With this as a given, what does it matter if an individual chooses to socialise herself for a change?

Oh no, my dad said I was a man and now my feelings are so artificial. get a life, you people are really annoying you choose to submit to others ideas then when you change you go, "oh society is so oppressive! if only I had realised I was really a Buddhist who liked to kill leopards!"

[Gauthier]

If you've had a tendency to attract the absolute worst men you can, what makes you think that it will be any different with women?

Poor assumption.

So you're going on an assumption that women are never abusive in a relationship then?

[Femnipotent]

Actually Lesbians have the highest rate of domestic violence, so there goes your bullshit.

Yes, so a group of 'Masculinists' have been trying to claim. Ridiculous. Just the sort of gaslighting I referred to in another thread, where men play the victim and pretend that they are being subjected to stunning physical and emotional and sexual violence at the hands of women, and that feminists are hiding it all behind lies about male violence.

[The Yremia Corporate]

If you've had a tendency to attract the absolute worst men you can, what makes you think that it will be any different with women?

Poor assumption.

Lesbians = beat more than hetros

have fun!

[Lowtovia]

theres a philosophical theory that two opposites in the world or the mind are fighting it out to find a equilibrium. You have probably always been a lesbian, but your upbringing taught you it was wrong so you subconsiously pushed it down, but are now accepting it due to the equilibrium being found.

And this is the other nonsensical argument, that if I choose to have nothing to do romantically with men that I must have been a lesbian all along. Forget the fact that I was never attracted to women until I chose to be. No, it is much more important to shove things into little boxes and say 'this is this' and 'that is that' and pretend that it's all nature.

just offering a theory, no need to leap down my throat

[Femnipotent]

You should direct your attention to your partner rather than to the prejudice of others, or at least try to do so.

You miss the point. I choose to decide what gender my partner will be, and I choose female only. I do not make this choice merely because I was pushed only towards men growing up.

[The Yremia Corporate]

Actually Lesbians have the highest rate of domestic violence, so there goes your bullshit.

Yes, so a group of 'Masculinists' have been trying to claim. Ridiculous. Just the sort of gaslighting I referred to in another thread, where men play the victim and pretend that they are being subjected to stunning physical and emotional and sexual violence at the hands of women, and that feminists are hiding it all behind lies about male violence.

Yeah cause men are never the victim, I mean the fact that we get killed the most out of all people in society means we are the evil ones! yeah! I mean you women do 40% of domestic violence but hey its all justified if another man suffers hey? you people make me sick. Feminazis of the world unite, eh?

[Femnipotent]

Because all men are evil and members of the arsonist jaywalker patriarchy.

All of us are part of the patriarchy, by hook or by crook, and all men whether willing are not are the intended recipients of patriarchal power which subjugates women. Whether an individual man is in a position of power over an individual woman or not means nothing in the face of overwhelming societal pressures. Until that changes, I am not going to waste my time on the so called 'good' or 'feminist' men. They can no more change what their society has been set up to give them than I can change the fact that no matter how 'nice' a man is, he will be given power over me. I refuse.

[Zeth Rekia]

It's and ism now?

Since it is primarily an ideological choice on my part so far, until I can reprogram myself better, I think the 'ism' makes sense.

I think you man sexual orientation choice, darling. As opposed to misandry.

[Mourro]

Oh, why do you think sexuality is an ideology? You may want to take care not to over-complicate your natural feelings. You might end up more confused in the end..

There is so little that is natural about our feelings, growing up in a society as we do that encourages some things and punishes other. We are so socialised that we cannot find what is 'natural' anymore. With this as a given, what does it matter if an individual chooses to socialise herself for a change?

I think this is where the distinction between nature and culture should be made. I think I already mentioned instinct, which in my opinion is basically nature, hence what is 'natural' to us. You seem to describe feelings which are influenced by culture, e.g. certain governments/countries etc telling certain peoples that they ought to live in a certain way, be it directly or more subtly. But when we talk about 'love' and 'attraction', I cannot possibly believe that any rule, government or culture could restrict the nature of those things. If you look at virtually any civilization that ever existed, evidence of all sexualities exists. This is regardless as to whether it was condemned, encouraged or whatever else. I don't think it's a 'given' that we can no longer understand our natural feelings for people any more, only that society has become far more complicated in certain places for us to realise a 'real' attraction.

[Seibertron]

You should direct your attention to your partner rather than to the prejudice of others, or at least try to do so.

You miss the point. I choose to decide what gender my partner will be, and I choose female only. I do not make this choice merely because I was pushed only towards men growing up.

Then it is your choice, no one is forcing you to be straight, but you should really loose your prejudice against men.

[JustinusCaesar]

Actually Lesbians have the highest rate of domestic violence, so there goes your bullshit.

Yes, so a group of 'Masculinists' have been trying to claim. Ridiculous. Just the sort of gaslighting I referred to in another thread, where men play the victim and pretend that they are being subjected to stunning physical and emotional and sexual violence at the hands of women, and that feminists are hiding it all behind lies about male violence.

I am sensing a high level of femi-nazism coming from you.


Here is a tip, there is no such thing as the stereotypical man or the stereotypical woman.