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by Altruistic Paladins » Fri Nov 11, 2011 7:51 am

by Cromarty » Fri Nov 11, 2011 9:14 am
Kvatchdom wrote:Best: JFK
Cerian Quilor wrote:There's a difference between breaking the rules, and being well....Cromarty...
<Koth>all sexual orientations must unite under the relative sexiness of madjack


by Belvadaire » Fri Nov 11, 2011 9:24 am

by Emporer Pudu » Fri Nov 11, 2011 9:33 am

by Misterfisher minions » Fri Nov 11, 2011 9:39 am

by Revolutopia » Fri Nov 11, 2011 9:39 am
by Emporer Pudu » Fri Nov 11, 2011 9:45 am

by Revolutopia » Fri Nov 11, 2011 9:54 am
Emporer Pudu wrote:JFK was a good president in my opinion only on the laurels of the successful space program he helped energize. Was he president when we put the nuclear missiles in Turkey? That was a bad move, that's a big black mark on whoever did that.

by New Chalcedon » Fri Nov 11, 2011 9:54 am

by Seibertron » Fri Nov 11, 2011 9:57 am

by Northern Lancashire » Fri Nov 11, 2011 9:58 am

by Annabon » Fri Nov 11, 2011 10:00 am
The lepearchauns wrote:Best of all time...tough. FD Roosevelt is toward the top. He guided us out of the great depression and then through the deadliest attack and biggest war of our countries history
Honorable mention...I feel weird saying it...but Clinton was a darn good president. He kept a pretty solid economy through the 90s and mostly managed to avoid war. Thats all you can ask for nowadays.
The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.- FDR

by Altruistic Paladins » Fri Nov 11, 2011 10:01 am
Belvadaire wrote:Worst: All freemason Presidents
Good: very few, kennedy, lincoln, and others that was'nt part of a masonic organization
freemason started this crap ofthe economy, and wars do your own research

by New Chalcedon » Fri Nov 11, 2011 10:18 am

by Tmutarakhan » Fri Nov 11, 2011 10:37 am
Dracoria wrote:Tmutarakhan wrote:Many other presidents also failed to kill bin Laden! George Washington, for example, never killed any Muslims at all as far as I know
Aaaactually...The conflicts with Barbary pirates had begun even before Washington's election. Heck, during his presidency the USN was established primarily to defend US shipping from said piracy. So while he didn't directly kill any Muslims, he did set up for coming conflict with a Muslim state.
Dracoria wrote:Kind of funny that Morocco was the first nation to recognize the US as independent from Britain - since this meant their sailors could attack US shipping without British intervention.
Ruridova wrote:Can agree with you on most of that, except for the stuff on Polk. Where I live(check signature), Polk, being the guy who brought my state into the Union, has pretty damn good press and the Mexican-American War a legitimate fight. You've got to remember most of those in Texas then were Americans who had come during the Empresario periods, and most felt American even during Mexican and Texan rule. So, yeah, everything you said but the stuff on Polk.
Anitgrum wrote:No Khurshchev placed nuclear missiles in Cuba in retaliation for the U.S placement of Jupiter missiles in Turkey.

by Risottia » Fri Nov 11, 2011 10:58 am
Altruistic Paladins wrote:Some notable highlights of people who were masons are:
François-Marie Arouet "Voltaire"
Benjamin Franklin
Samuel Clemens "Mark Twain"
Earl Warren
Winston Churchill
George Washington
Theodore Roosevelt
Franklin Roosevelt

by Altruistic Paladins » Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:53 am
Risottia wrote:Altruistic Paladins wrote:Some notable highlights of people who were masons are:
François-Marie Arouet "Voltaire"
Benjamin Franklin
Samuel Clemens "Mark Twain"
Earl Warren
Winston Churchill
George Washington
Theodore Roosevelt
Franklin Roosevelt
Also freemasons:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Licio_Gelli
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silvio_Berlusconi
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vittorio_E ... _of_Naples
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emilio_Massera
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_L%C3%B3pez_Rega
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guillermo_ ... 1rez_Mason
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michele_Sindona
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roberto_Calvi
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vito_Miceli
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fabrizio_Cicchitto
So, you know, the freemasonry is just like any other human group. Full of good people and of total jerks.

by Lesbia » Fri Nov 11, 2011 12:17 pm

by Conserative Morality » Fri Nov 11, 2011 1:58 pm
Tmutarakhan wrote:You must be too young to remember the Cold War. There was an agreed demarcation of spheres of influence: the United States would not intervene on behalf of Hungary or Czechoslovakia because of the Yalta agreement, and contrariwise did not accept the USSR's right to make "allies" in the Western Hemisphere (the US had proclaimed since Monroe that everyone else should stay out of Latin America, and after the end of our Civil War that had been respected). For the USSR to go further and make Cuba into a nuclear base was a total provocation, which Khrushchev undertook only because JFK had decided not to react forcefully to the Berlin Wall, which Khrushchev mistook as a sign of weakness (and no, the East German government would not have built that wall if Khrushchev had told them not to; they had no more ability to resist Soviet tanks than Hungary or Czechoslovakia). The Politburo thought Khrushchev's "reckless adventurism" had damaged Soviet interests; they would have fired him more quickly, except that of course the conspirational wrangling for positions in the replacement government had to take place in quiet whispers, which took over a year.

by New England and The Maritimes » Fri Nov 11, 2011 2:32 pm
Soviet Haaregrad wrote:Some people's opinions are based on rational observations, others base theirs on imaginative thinking. The reality-based community ought not to waste it's time refuting delusions.

by Keronians » Fri Nov 11, 2011 2:40 pm

by Farnhamia » Fri Nov 11, 2011 3:05 pm
Keronians wrote:1. Abraham Lincoln
2. Franklin D Roosevelt
3. George Washington
4. Thomas Jefferson
5. Theodore Roosevelt
Bottom five:
5. William Henry Harrison
4. Martin Van Buren
3. Franklin Pierce
2. James Buchanan
1. Herbert Hoover

by Soxastan » Fri Nov 11, 2011 3:28 pm

by Anitgrum » Sat Nov 12, 2011 1:53 am
Tmutarakhan wrote:No, no, no. The Jupiters were our oldest missiles; their placement in Turkey was planned by Truman and implemented by Eisenhower. Khrushchev raised them during the discussions because he wanted some quid-pro-quo for removing missiles from Cuba; Kennedy told him the Jupiters were being retired soon anyway and there were no plans to replace them, but that Khrushchev could tell the Politburo that was part of the deal if it would help; Khrushchev wanted that public, and Kennedy refused. There was no equivalency because (again: I don't think you understood what I was telling you before) there were tacit and explicit agreements about which areas were US or USSR spheres of influence. Turkey was not analogous to Cuba: it would be more analogous if we had placed missiles in Lithuania, after supporting a rebellion there.
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