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Employees! Give back stock or be fired

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The Black Forrest
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Employees! Give back stock or be fired

Postby The Black Forrest » Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:51 pm

Zenga is about to go IPO which is estimated in the billions.

They decided they gave out too much stock. So rather then do a reverse split as many companies do.

Give us your unvested or be fired!

What a way to kill loyalty!

I almost accepted a position there. Glad I didn't.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13506_3-57322 ... -be-fired/
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Genivaria
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Postby Genivaria » Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:54 pm

Oh. I thought this was about an employee stealing store products....this is just assholish.
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Demonatrix
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Postby Demonatrix » Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:57 pm

The Black Forrest wrote:Zenga is about to go IPO which is estimated in the billions.

They decided they gave out too much stock. So rather then do a reverse split as many companies do.

Give us your unvested or be fired!

What a way to kill loyalty!

I almost accepted a position there. Glad I didn't.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13506_3-57322 ... -be-fired/


Typical corporate assholes, one line from that article really amused me...

"the firm's executives reportedly justified their strategy by saying it was best for the company. With the unvested shares, the executives believed they could attract more top talent with the promise of stock."

...that they will take back when it suits them too...

:palm:

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Lackadaisical2
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Postby Lackadaisical2 » Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:59 pm

Uh... sounds like bullshit at first glance, but if the vestment of the stock was dependent upon staying employed I guess it wouldn't be illegal. Seems pretty fucking shady though.
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Lubyak
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Postby Lubyak » Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:59 pm

One would think they should BUY back their stock...

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Lackadaisical2
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Postby Lackadaisical2 » Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:01 pm

Lubyak wrote:One would think they should BUY back their stock...

The employees don't actually own it yet.
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Ethel mermania
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Postby Ethel mermania » Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:02 pm

If this is true, this simply should not be legal. I kinda wonder if it is?

Maybe one of the lawyers here may know? some sort of violation of the contract that granted the shares to the employee in the first place, as the shares were given as a term of the employment?
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The Corparation
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Postby The Corparation » Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:04 pm

Saw this in paper earlier. I think its retarded if they really want the stock back that badly why don't they just buy it back rather then stealing it back?

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Yootwopia
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Ex-Nation

Postby Yootwopia » Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:06 pm

There has to be some way to fuck these guys based on existing contract law...
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Demonatrix
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Postby Demonatrix » Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:12 pm

The Corparation wrote:Saw this in paper earlier. I think its retarded if they really want the stock back that badly why don't they just buy it back rather then stealing it back?


I start a company worth $100, I employ you at bugger all wages, and give you $5 worth of stock in place of the wages the company cant afford...

We work had, the company is worth $100,000,000, so I decide to sell my 95% of the stock and retire to a tropical paradise...

But that means you make $5,000,000 just because you agreed to work for me, 20 yrs ago...

That aint right, and I'm not going to PAY you $5,000,000 for those shares, no I'll steal them because it's cheaper...

Mwahahahahahahaha...

Does that answer your question?

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Korintar
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Ex-Nation

Postby Korintar » Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:15 pm

The Black Forrest wrote:Zenga is about to go IPO which is estimated in the billions.

They decided they gave out too much stock. So rather then do a reverse split as many companies do.

Give us your unvested or be fired!

What a way to kill loyalty!

I almost accepted a position there. Glad I didn't.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13506_3-57322 ... -be-fired/


I wouldn't invest in a company that did that to their employees, at least not knowingly. If I found out I had stock in that company, I would immediately sell my shares to the first guy who'd offer to buy them. The only way I'd keep the stock is to hold on to it long enough to vote to fire the executives at the next shareholders' meeting.
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Lacadaemon
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Ex-Nation

Postby Lacadaemon » Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:18 pm

Yootwopia wrote:There has to be some way to fuck these guys based on existing contract law...


Well there's your three problems:

1. Existing

2. Contract

3. Law

I mean, hell, in a properly regulated market, pension stripping schemes like Zynga wouldn't ever have a sniff of an IPO (see Groupon). But it's all wild westy now. Lie down with dogs and so forth.
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Postby AiliailiA » Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:59 pm

Yootwopia wrote:There has to be some way to fuck these guys based on existing contract law...


It's essentially the same as requiring an employee to pay cash or be fired. Which would be unfair dismissal in some jurisdictions (including some US states).

Zynga seems to be based in California.
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Wilgrove
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Postby Wilgrove » Thu Nov 10, 2011 9:03 pm

Lubyak wrote:One would think they should BUY back their stock...


Why spend money when you can screw other people out of theirs?!

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Katganistan
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Postby Katganistan » Thu Nov 10, 2011 9:12 pm

Might be worth it to them to keep the stock and look for another job.
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Consaria
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Postby Consaria » Thu Nov 10, 2011 9:18 pm

Mark Pincus sent you a Corporateville request.
Accept X


Mark Pincus just found out that he needs more stock, help him or you'll be canned.
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Postby Galloism » Thu Nov 10, 2011 9:19 pm

Ailiailia wrote:
Yootwopia wrote:There has to be some way to fuck these guys based on existing contract law...


It's essentially the same as requiring an employee to pay cash or be fired. Which would be unfair dismissal in some jurisdictions (including some US states).

As it should be.
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Norstal
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Ex-Nation

Postby Norstal » Thu Nov 10, 2011 9:35 pm

A company that mismanage their finances and employees that makes management games.

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The Corparation
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Postby The Corparation » Thu Nov 10, 2011 10:07 pm

Katganistan wrote:Might be worth it to them to keep the stock and look for another job.

They can't. Its hand over the stock or you're fired and get the stock taken from you.

Demonatrix wrote:
The Corparation wrote:Saw this in paper earlier. I think its retarded if they really want the stock back that badly why don't they just buy it back rather then stealing it back?


I start a company worth $100, I employ you at bugger all wages, and give you $5 worth of stock in place of the wages the company cant afford...

We work had, the company is worth $100,000,000, so I decide to sell my 95% of the stock and retire to a tropical paradise...

But that means you make $5,000,000 just because you agreed to work for me, 20 yrs ago...

That aint right, and I'm not going to PAY you $5,000,000 for those shares, no I'll steal them because it's cheaper...

Mwahahahahahahaha...

Does that answer your question?

For an economic standpoint yes. But not a PR one. IT makes them look like an ass. As it is people probably aren't as likely to apply there now seeing as they'll realize that the stock they're being given can easily be taken from them to sucker in new staff and the staff they have aren't going to be happy with it.

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The Black Forrest
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Postby The Black Forrest » Thu Nov 10, 2011 10:19 pm

The Corparation wrote:
Katganistan wrote:Might be worth it to them to keep the stock and look for another job.

They can't. Its hand over the stock or you're fired and get the stock taken from you.



Unvested yes. If you don't purchase the vested, yes.

Demonatrix wrote:
I start a company worth $100, I employ you at bugger all wages, and give you $5 worth of stock in place of the wages the company cant afford...

We work had, the company is worth $100,000,000, so I decide to sell my 95% of the stock and retire to a tropical paradise...

But that means you make $5,000,000 just because you agreed to work for me, 20 yrs ago...

That aint right, and I'm not going to PAY you $5,000,000 for those shares, no I'll steal them because it's cheaper...

Mwahahahahahahaha...

Does that answer your question?

For an economic standpoint yes. But not a PR one. IT makes them look like an ass. As it is people probably aren't as likely to apply there now seeing as they'll realize that the stock they're being given can easily be taken from them to sucker in new staff and the staff they have aren't going to be happy with it.


Indeed.

What's hilarious. A recruiter contact me about a job there. Told him thank you but no thank you. He asked why. :) He said recruiting is harder as people as inflating their stock demands because of that stunt.

I told them I would for 4 times the normal amount of my classification. :D
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Lacadaemon
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Ex-Nation

Postby Lacadaemon » Thu Nov 10, 2011 10:25 pm

Katganistan wrote:Might be worth it to them to keep the stock and look for another job.


No, not really.
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Ikonoclast
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Ex-Nation

Postby Ikonoclast » Thu Nov 10, 2011 10:40 pm

The Corparation wrote:
Demonatrix wrote:
I start a company worth $100, I employ you at bugger all wages, and give you $5 worth of stock in place of the wages the company cant afford...

We work had, the company is worth $100,000,000, so I decide to sell my 95% of the stock and retire to a tropical paradise...

But that means you make $5,000,000 just because you agreed to work for me, 20 yrs ago...

That aint right, and I'm not going to PAY you $5,000,000 for those shares, no I'll steal them because it's cheaper...

Mwahahahahahahaha...

Does that answer your question?

For an economic standpoint yes. But not a PR one. IT makes them look like an ass. As it is people probably aren't as likely to apply there now seeing as they'll realize that the stock they're being given can easily be taken from them to sucker in new staff and the staff they have aren't going to be happy with it.


But the people trying to grab all the stock back before the flotation, well, they will be selling it off, and retiring somewhere warm, right? so what do they care about how hard it is for the new management voted in by the new post sale shareholders, to recruit staff?

The old crew will take their improved share selloff payouts, and their golden goodbye payments, and their months salary in place of notice, and just vanish to a tax haven someplace, laughing merrily.

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New Chalcedon
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Ex-Nation

Postby New Chalcedon » Fri Nov 11, 2011 12:25 am

Lackadaisical2 wrote:Uh... sounds like bullshit at first glance, but if the vestment of the stock was dependent upon staying employed I guess it wouldn't be illegal. Seems pretty fucking shady though.


Not quite, from what I read in the article. The stock was theirs - the article made mention of a former employee - and then the corporation told them to give it back.

And, of course, the corporate kludge that is the MSM will ignore this illegal activity, because it's being committed by a big, rich corporation - and it's so much easier to bash unions for exercising their right of association than to cover real news like this.
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Lackadaisical2
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Postby Lackadaisical2 » Fri Nov 11, 2011 12:29 am

New Chalcedon wrote:
Lackadaisical2 wrote:Uh... sounds like bullshit at first glance, but if the vestment of the stock was dependent upon staying employed I guess it wouldn't be illegal. Seems pretty fucking shady though.


Not quite, from what I read in the article. The stock was theirs - the article made mention of a former employee - and then the corporation told them to give it back.

And, of course, the corporate kludge that is the MSM will ignore this illegal activity, because it's being committed by a big, rich corporation - and it's so much easier to bash unions for exercising their right of association than to cover real news like this.

Eh, it wasn't clear whether they left the company before or after the 'ultimatum'. Surely I'd just ignore the company if they had no legal right to 'take back' the unvested shares.
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Risottia
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Postby Risottia » Fri Nov 11, 2011 12:31 am

The Black Forrest wrote:Give us your unvested or be fired!

Wait, how is it even remotely legal to force stockholders to sell their property by blackmailing them? Or to threaten employees to have them do something that's not part of the job they're being paid for?
Last edited by Risottia on Fri Nov 11, 2011 12:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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