Christian Atheism

[Pope Joan]

I have run across Christian Atheists among academicians in (now former) East Bloc countries.

They were wise humane people and gave a fairer representation of the historical Jesus than did many American seminary professors.

[Vazdania]

"Funny how none of this stuff has happened since the Bible was written."

Who's to say it hasnt happened???

Well, I'll just sit here until you tell me the last time people tried to build a tower with the purpose of making it higher than god.

Oh, and how about you respond to all my points rather than selectively choosing one you can come up with an answer to.

And likeI said we can go back and forth with no answer...i find the lot of what you say socialist rubbish created by people who want to discredit God and Jesus even though they both exist

[Bluth Corporation]

Jesus...probably existed.

My general understanding (it should be mentioned that I am a specialist-in-training in Imperial Russian religious movements; my actual competency in the topic under discussion now is minimal; my knowledge regarding this comes largely from informal discussions and what has been explained in the synthetic texts on general Christian history I've read--btw, might I recomend Diarmaid MacCulloch's Christianity: The First Three Thousand Years?) from discussions with friends and professors who are specialists in the field is this:
There is no direct, contemporaneous attestation of him of which I am aware, that is true. However, the indirect evidence can, on the balance, be used to support a claim as to the probability of Jesus's existence (again, the specifics are beyond my competency at this point). The problem is that some who wish to conclusively deny Jesus's existence insist upon applying the standards and methods of modern history to ancient history, and that just doesn't work.

It's impossible to say Jesus definitely existed. It's dishonest to claim he definitely didn't. All that one can do is make an argument as for a probability either way.

Archregimancy will probably come by at some point to fill in the details, if not explain how my understanding is just altogether fundamentally wrong).

[Elcastria]

Jesus wasn't a great person. You can only be a great person if you exist.

Wait, How do you know Jesus didn't exist.

The fact that he was ripped off of dozens of religious figures that were part of other religions at the time.

[Bluth Corporation]

As for Christian Atheism itself...well, I'll be back in the morning

[Elcastria]

Well, I'll just sit here until you tell me the last time people tried to build a tower with the purpose of making it higher than god.

Oh, and how about you respond to all my points rather than selectively choosing one you can come up with an answer to.

And likeI said we can go back and forth with no answer...i find the lot of what you say socialist rubbish created by people who want to discredit God and Jesus even though they both exist

Socialist rubbish? Because my theological views reflect my economic views?

I'm not sure if you're trolling, and I feel bad if you're not.

[Vazdania]

And likeI said we can go back and forth with no answer...i find the lot of what you say socialist rubbish created by people who want to discredit God and Jesus even though they both exist

Socialist rubbish? Because my theological views reflect my economic views?

I'm not sure if you're trolling, and I feel bad if you're not.

its sadly a side effect! Look at the majority of communists on here! they are athiests!

[Elcastria]

ya, pretty much, I just find it pointless to argue with you because we will go back and forth on the subject with no conlusion.

I'm actually quite informed on what the conclusion of this debate will be. You will either stop responding because you can't think of a counter-argument or begin flaming me.

SO As you stated if you want to create your own holy book...please prove your divinity!

I didn't say I wanted to create my holy book. The point was that Jesus being mentioned in the Gospels doesn't prove anything anymore than Muhammad being mentioned in the Koran or Vishnu being mentioned in the Vedas.

[Bluth Corporation]

Socialist rubbish? Because my theological views reflect my economic views?

I'm not sure if you're trolling, and I feel bad if you're not.

its sadly a side effect! Look at the majority of communists on here! they are athiests!

And a considerable number of the socialists and communists are self-professed Christians.

Indeed, a considerable number of the communist movements in history (I'd suggest even a majority of the long-term successful ones, though admittedly I can't prove it) have been Christian.

[Elcastria]

Socialist rubbish? Because my theological views reflect my economic views?

I'm not sure if you're trolling, and I feel bad if you're not.

its sadly a side effect! Look at the majority of communists on here! they are athiests!

I'm pretty sure half of the ''communist'' on NS are just young kids in rebellion, and are doing so by going around saying they're ''communist'' or ''socialist'' despite not having a damn clue what either of them mean. Besides, what's wrong with communism?

Also, communism isn't a side affect of atheism any more than being a Republican is a side affect of being a Christian. And, actually, Jesus was pretty socialistic himself.

[United States of Texas]

Now one may argue if Jesus was or was not the Son of God. One may argue if he indeed rose from the death or if didn’t die and was later buried in India.
However to simply say: He didn’t exist at all isn’t exactly the most intelligent argument FOR Atheism. It simply highlights a person’s fanatic conviction based on perhaps personal trauma and certainly based on the lack of information and education.
Let’s put aside the Bible as a part of the evidence chain that Jesus existed, and concentrate solely on evidence.
Anyone having such an enormous cultural impact on World History can’t by an invention. Inventing “Jesus” would mean a group of conspirators who had to exist around that time with a “plan”.
As it cannot be argued that Christianity exists. It had to start somewhere, right? Having some sort of Conspiracy group rebelling against Jewish teachings and inventing a non-existent figure is even more fantastic and shows how stupid these aggressive militant Atheists are. If you don’t believe he was God’s son is one thing and your own decision, but forcing “Atheism” down the throat of others is the same thing as to force anyone to believe he was Gods son. (Religion can be forced, real faith cannot.)
Scholars have correlated the New Testament accounts with non-Christian historical records to arrive at an estimated chronology for the major episodes in the life of Jesus.
Most critical historians agree that Jesus was a Galilean Jewish Rabbi who was regarded as a teacher and healer in Judaea that he was baptized by John the Baptist, and that he was crucified in Jerusalem on the orders of the Roman Prefect, Pontius Pilate, on the charge of sedition against the Roman Empire Critical Biblical scholars and historians have offered competing descriptions of Jesus as a self-described Messiah, as the leader of an apocalyptic movement, as an itinerant sage, as a charismatic healer, and as the founder of an independent religious movement. Most contemporary scholars of the historical Jesus consider him to have been an independent, charismatic founder of a Jewish restoration movement, anticipating a future apocalypse. Other prominent scholars, however, contend that Jesus' "Kingdom of God" meant rad The Christian gospels were written primarily as theological documents rather than historical chronicles. However, the question of the existence of Jesus as a historical figure should be distinguished from discussions about the historicity of specific episodes in the gospels, the chronology they present, or theological issues regarding his divinity. A number of historical non-Christian documents, such as Jewish and Greco-Roman sources, have been used in historical analyses of the existence of Jesus. Most critical historians agree that Jesus existed and regard events such as his baptism and his crucifixion as historical.
Robert E. Van Voorst states that the non-historicity of the existence of Jesus has always been controversial, and has consistently failed to convince scholars of many disciplines, and that classical historians, as well as biblical scholars now regard it as effectively refuted. Walter P. Weaver, among others, states that the denial of Jesus’ existence has never convinced any large number of people, in or out of technical circles.

[Elcastria]

Now one may argue if Jesus was or was not the Son of God. One may argue if he indeed rose from the death or if didn’t die and was later buried in India.
However to simply say: He didn’t exist at all isn’t exactly the most intelligent argument FOR Atheism. It simply highlights a person’s fanatic conviction based on perhaps personal trauma and certainly based on the lack of information and education.
Let’s put aside the Bible as a part of the evidence chain that Jesus existed, and concentrate solely on evidence.
Anyone having such an enormous cultural impact on World History can’t by an invention. Inventing “Jesus” would mean a group of conspirators who had to exist around that time with a “plan”.
As it cannot be argued that Christianity exists. It had to start somewhere, right? Having some sort of Conspiracy group rebelling against Jewish teachings and inventing a non-existent figure is even more fantastic and shows how stupid these aggressive militant Atheists are. If you don’t believe he was God’s son is one thing and your own decision, but forcing “Atheism” down the throat of others is the same thing as to force anyone to believe he was Gods son. (Religion can be forced, real faith cannot.)
Scholars have correlated the New Testament accounts with non-Christian historical records to arrive at an estimated chronology for the major episodes in the life of Jesus.
Most critical historians agree that Jesus was a Galilean Jewish Rabbi who was regarded as a teacher and healer in Judaea that he was baptized by John the Baptist, and that he was crucified in Jerusalem on the orders of the Roman Prefect, Pontius Pilate, on the charge of sedition against the Roman Empire Critical Biblical scholars and historians have offered competing descriptions of Jesus as a self-described Messiah, as the leader of an apocalyptic movement, as an itinerant sage, as a charismatic healer, and as the founder of an independent religious movement. Most contemporary scholars of the historical Jesus consider him to have been an independent, charismatic founder of a Jewish restoration movement, anticipating a future apocalypse. Other prominent scholars, however, contend that Jesus' "Kingdom of God" meant rad The Christian gospels were written primarily as theological documents rather than historical chronicles. However, the question of the existence of Jesus as a historical figure should be distinguished from discussions about the historicity of specific episodes in the gospels, the chronology they present, or theological issues regarding his divinity. A number of historical non-Christian documents, such as Jewish and Greco-Roman sources, have been used in historical analyses of the existence of Jesus. Most critical historians agree that Jesus existed and regard events such as his baptism and his crucifixion as historical.
Robert E. Van Voorst states that the non-historicity of the existence of Jesus has always been controversial, and has consistently failed to convince scholars of many disciplines, and that classical historians, as well as biblical scholars now regard it as effectively refuted. Walter P. Weaver, among others, states that the denial of Jesus’ existence has never convinced any large number of people, in or out of technical circles.

tl;dr

[Vazdania]

its sadly a side effect! Look at the majority of communists on here! they are athiests!

I'm pretty sure half of the ''communist'' on NS are just young kids in rebellion, and are doing so by going around saying they're ''communist'' or ''socialist'' despite not having a damn clue what either of them mean. Besides, what's wrong with communism?

Also, communism isn't a side affect of atheism any more than being a Republican is a side affect of being a Christian. And, actually, Jesus was pretty socialistic himself.

Not really, that is quite the surface view of it. But it is more of the we should help and love eachother, not the government should interfere with everthing we do. If fact he is more of a stand up to government kind of guy.

[Bluth Corporation]

Screw it, I'll just come out and say it: it is my position that one can't truly be a Christian unless one is an atheist.

[Bluth Corporation]

But it is more of the we should help and love eachother, not the government should interfere with everthing we do.

Many, perhaps even most, socialists would agree with that sentiment completely.

[Vazdania]

Screw it, I'll just come out and say it: it is my position that one can't truly be a Christian unless one is an atheist.

really? How so???

[Elcastria]

I'm pretty sure half of the ''communist'' on NS are just young kids in rebellion, and are doing so by going around saying they're ''communist'' or ''socialist'' despite not having a damn clue what either of them mean. Besides, what's wrong with communism?

Also, communism isn't a side affect of atheism any more than being a Republican is a side affect of being a Christian. And, actually, Jesus was pretty socialistic himself.

Not really, that is quite the surface view of it. But it is more of the we should help eachother, not the government should interfere with everthing we do. If fact he is more of a stand up to government kind of guy.

Somebody hasn't read much of the Bible, apparently.

He wasn't socialistic!

I could reference a million more passages. Also, again with the completely ignoring parts of what I wrote because you can't think of a response.

[Rationallia]

If I was an Atheist (which i'm not, i'm Christian), I would not live with good virtues, i would live purely for myself. Why should murder be wrong if you're just another creature?

[Lokhor]

I'm pretty sure half of the ''communist'' on NS are just young kids in rebellion, and are doing so by going around saying they're ''communist'' or ''socialist'' despite not having a damn clue what either of them mean. Besides, what's wrong with communism?

Also, communism isn't a side affect of atheism any more than being a Republican is a side affect of being a Christian. And, actually, Jesus was pretty socialistic himself.

Not really, that is quite the surface view of it. But it is more of the we should help and love eachother, not the government should interfere with everthing we do. If fact he is more of a stand up to government kind of guy.

The quote give unto Ceaser what is Ceaser's, and give unto God what is God's comes to mind. Perhaps your brand of Christianity has been hijacked by certain political view? Why don't you ask your pastor/preacher/priest what his/her political views are and how they influence the sermon. Remember the Bible is collection of books selected by the Church hundreds of years later, and can be interpreted anyway you like.

[California Bay Area]

If I was an Atheist (which i'm not, i'm Christian), I would not live with good virtues, i would live purely for myself. Why should murder be wrong if you're just another creature?

If the only thing keeping you from being a mass murderer is heaven I feel sad for you

[United States of Texas]

He wasn't socialistic!


Uhm... how could he been anything? Why are you arguing that a man /person you say didn't exist had any opinions or views? If you are convinced Jesus was just a fabrication of "_________" Since he didn't exist, someone had to invent him right? It would argue that if he was invented then his inventors had very socialistic views and gave them to their "Character" ( Share everything, love everybody, don't judge, don't kill, passive resistance to the extreme, finding grace even in the worst : Whores, Tax collectors, lepers…
It is really fun to see someone trying to argue something and trying to sound all scholarly. I bet insults come next.

[Isolated China]

How can there be Christian Atheism when Atheists don't believe in God?
And celebrating Christmas but being Atheist is kinda hypocritical. You don't believe in an All-Mighty God, yet you celebrate the day his son died. Not much reasoning there....

[Elcastria]

If I was an Atheist (which i'm not, i'm Christian), I would not live with good virtues, i would live purely for myself. Why should murder be wrong if you're just another creature?

Someone's ignoring the whole human sacrifice, rape other cities God ordered you to attack, killing 42 children, killing homosexuals, and stoning rebellious kids part.

Yeah, the Bible. Best source of Morality.

[California Bay Area]

How can there be Christian Atheism when Atheists don't believe in God?
And celebrating Christmas but being Atheist is kinda hypocritical. You don't believe in an All-Mighty God, yet you celebrate the day his son died. Not much reasoning there....

It a cultural thing I still celebrate Christmas and Easter yet I am a atheist

[Biophilia]

Now one may argue if Jesus was or was not the Son of God. One may argue if he indeed rose from the death or if didn’t die and was later buried in India.
However to simply say: He didn’t exist at all isn’t exactly the most intelligent argument FOR Atheism.

I was raised atheist, and in my opinion, the whole Jesus phenomenon appears corrupted in my view point... I guess its because I look at this the same way I look at fairy tales. I just can't understand why people are so fascinated with someone that didn't write anything on his own (as far as I know of). If he did exist, i highly doubt that any of the passed down teachings are in any way accurate. I can only imagine how many lies have been thrown into these tales in order to gain power over people. After all, Jesus was sort of this person who people hailed as "believe he's God or have fun in hell." Seriously? How can a god have a son and yet still be one person. And why does a holy spirit person have to be separated into the mix.. Its too paradoxical and obviously it was meant to be that way so people didn't challenge it. Its made to be confusing and mysterious so that people are more easily, well, confused. I find this all too distracting to actually focus and take it seriously that he is the person the bible claims him to be.