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IN GOD WE TRUST? (Yeah, one of these again)

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Seibertron
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Postby Seibertron » Fri Nov 04, 2011 3:01 pm

Hippostania wrote:
Vestr-Norig wrote:It's a motto!!! Having the word God in the nation's motto, do not suddenly make the country an oppressive theocracy like Iran or something!

I'm sure that you'd be fine with ''In Allah we Trust'' as Norway's new motto. It's a motto after all, it's not like a motto like that is going to turn Norway into an islamic theocracy.

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OMGeverynameistaken
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Postby OMGeverynameistaken » Fri Nov 04, 2011 3:01 pm

Hippostania wrote:
Vestr-Norig wrote:It's a motto!!! Having the word God in the nation's motto, do not suddenly make the country an oppressive theocracy like Iran or something!

I'm sure that you'd be fine with ''In Allah we Trust'' as Norway's new motto. It's a motto after all, it's not like a motto like that is going to turn Norway into an islamic theocracy.

I would question why there was an Arabic word in an otherwise English motto.
Last edited by OMGeverynameistaken on Fri Nov 04, 2011 3:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The Emerald Legion
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Postby The Emerald Legion » Fri Nov 04, 2011 3:01 pm

Vestr-Norig wrote:Why do all you atheists want to change the society so radically? Fine, you do not believe in God, that do not mean the entire society should change because you find it offensive, or whatever it is you do, because the motto has the name God in it. It is a great motto, and no matter if you believe or not, it has historical value, as your nation is basically build on Christian values and beliefs.


It has no historical value as America is quite specifically not built on christian values and beliefs.

Lost Earth wrote:First of all, it is partially if not mostly a historicaly statement, as a are most of the images on our currency. The United States of America was founded by Christians on Christian tenants as an almost completely Christian nation. You cannot deny this. That is why it is on our currency and should stay on our currency for the remainder of our nation's existance. I would be horribly appalled and angered if it were ever removed.


No, No it wasn't. http://www.nobeliefs.com/Tripoli.htm
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Postby Autumn Wind » Fri Nov 04, 2011 3:01 pm

Vestr-Norig wrote:
Laissez-Faire wrote:Tell me how it protects supposed "Christian values and beliefs" to have them espoused by the government?

It's a motto!!! Having the word God in the nation's motto, do not suddenly make the country an oppressive theocracy like Iran or something!



Nor does NOT having GOD in the motto make it oppressive atheistic communism. What accounts for the Christian Community's hyperactive issue with E Pluribus Unum?
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Ukaslavia
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Postby Ukaslavia » Fri Nov 04, 2011 3:01 pm

The Arizona Wasteland wrote:WOULDN'T GOD RULING ALL, MAKE HIM A MONARCH!?!?


And thus, we come to the British Monarchy, that is ordained by God, to rule over the British Servants. The same Monarchy that set taxes in the colonies that caused tension that lead to the American Revolution, that lead the US to being founded by christians, but with the enlightenment to exclude religion from political proceedings (swearing on the bible with "So help you God" is nearly a tradition carried over from British proceedings, same with the opening of Congress with a prayer.)

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Vestr-Norig
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Postby Vestr-Norig » Fri Nov 04, 2011 3:03 pm

Laissez-Faire wrote:
Vestr-Norig wrote:It's a motto!!! Having the word God in the nation's motto, do not suddenly make the country an oppressive theocracy like Iran or something!

:palm:

That was not what I was referencing.

And what is so excluding about 'E Pluribus Unum'?

I'm sorry, I am not familiar with your highbrow words.
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Vestr-Norig
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Postby Vestr-Norig » Fri Nov 04, 2011 3:05 pm

Hippostania wrote:
Vestr-Norig wrote:It's a motto!!! Having the word God in the nation's motto, do not suddenly make the country an oppressive theocracy like Iran or something!

I'm sure that you'd be fine with ''In Allah we Trust'' as Norway's new motto. It's a motto after all, it's not like a motto like that is going to turn Norway into an islamic theocracy.

I will not change good old "Einig og tru til Dovre fell" to some Arabic motto, the same way Arabic/Islamic countries should not Westernize/secularize their mottos, but keep them as they are.
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Maladie
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Postby Maladie » Fri Nov 04, 2011 3:06 pm

Who in the USA would reasonably still trust in God?

A country where the freedoms of belief and religion are supposedly held so high should not refer to God, as this would alienate some part of the population which does not share this particular belief.
Considering the many Churches and cults which bloom throughout that country, one is entitled to doubt that any one there will pray the same God as their neighbour.
In that case, the motto should be altered to In Gods We Trust so as to stress the difference between your God and for example my God.
The Founding Fathers must have had this in mind where they chose E Pluribus Unum, making no reference to any particular belief or religion, and thus stressing the idea of union rather than any religious reference.

By the way, during WWII the Germans bore the motto Gott mit uns (God with us) on their belt buckles, and this did not prevent any God-trusting G.I from attacking and killing as many of them as could be done. What kind of a behaviour is that for a true believer, unto a fellow-believer?
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Postby Norstal » Fri Nov 04, 2011 3:06 pm

Vestr-Norig wrote:
Laissez-Faire wrote: :palm:

That was not what I was referencing.

And what is so excluding about 'E Pluribus Unum'?

I'm sorry, I am not familiar with your highbrow words.

Oh my god. This is hilarious. Highbrow words. Words cannot describe.

Oh and to let you know that you shouldn't conform to stereotype, I'm an atheist and I support HISTORICAL motto pertaining to god.
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Postby Rhodmhire » Fri Nov 04, 2011 3:06 pm

Just let it sit for another fifty years and focus on important stuff until then. The glue will dry by then and we'll just peel it off the bumper with ease.
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Seibertron
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Postby Seibertron » Fri Nov 04, 2011 3:07 pm

Vestr-Norig wrote:
Hippostania wrote:I'm sure that you'd be fine with ''In Allah we Trust'' as Norway's new motto. It's a motto after all, it's not like a motto like that is going to turn Norway into an islamic theocracy.

I will not change good old "Einig og tru til Dovre fell" to some Arabic motto, the same way Arabic/Islamic countries should not Westernize/secularize their mottos, but keep them as they are.

Why it is just a motto remember?
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Postby Vestr-Norig » Fri Nov 04, 2011 3:08 pm

Autumn Wind wrote:
Vestr-Norig wrote:It's a motto!!! Having the word God in the nation's motto, do not suddenly make the country an oppressive theocracy like Iran or something!



Nor does NOT having GOD in the motto make it oppressive atheistic communism. What accounts for the Christian Community's hyperactive issue with E Pluribus Unum?

It's about traditions, and keeping the nation as it is, not radically change everything just because of a small minority of atheists that do not stand any words or stuff having anything to do with Christianity.
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Postby Vestr-Norig » Fri Nov 04, 2011 3:10 pm

Norstal wrote:
Vestr-Norig wrote:I'm sorry, I am not familiar with your highbrow words.

Oh my god. This is hilarious. Highbrow words. Words cannot describe.

Oh and to let you know that you shouldn't conform to stereotype, I'm an atheist and I support HISTORICAL motto pertaining to god.


You cannot say "highbrow words?" Sorry, my English is rather bad, I did mean "finer", or more "intellectual" words, a bit sarcastically.
Last edited by Vestr-Norig on Fri Nov 04, 2011 3:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Vellosia » Fri Nov 04, 2011 3:10 pm

Vestr-Norig wrote:
Autumn Wind wrote:

Nor does NOT having GOD in the motto make it oppressive atheistic communism. What accounts for the Christian Community's hyperactive issue with E Pluribus Unum?

It's about traditions, and keeping the nation as it is, not radically change everything just because of a small minority of atheists that do not stand any words or stuff having anything to do with Christianity.


E pluribus unum is far more of a tradition than In God we Trust.
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Seibertron
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Postby Seibertron » Fri Nov 04, 2011 3:11 pm

Vestr-Norig wrote:
Autumn Wind wrote:

Nor does NOT having GOD in the motto make it oppressive atheistic communism. What accounts for the Christian Community's hyperactive issue with E Pluribus Unum?

It's about traditions, and keeping the nation as it is, not radically change everything just because of a small minority of atheists that do not stand any words or stuff having anything to do with Christianity.

Small really? And it is not just Atheists, you are still forgetting Agnostics and people practising non-abrahamic religions.
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Postby Autumn Wind » Fri Nov 04, 2011 3:11 pm

Vestr-Norig wrote:
Autumn Wind wrote:

Nor does NOT having GOD in the motto make it oppressive atheistic communism. What accounts for the Christian Community's hyperactive issue with E Pluribus Unum?


It's about traditions, and keeping the nation as it is, not radically change everything just because of a small minority of atheists that do not stand any words or stuff having anything to do with Christianity.


It's about traditions, and keeping the nation as it is, not radically change everything just because Christians that do not stand any words or stuff having anything to do with Democracy.

WHAT IS WRONG WITH E PLURIBUS UNUM WHICH WAS THE UNOFFICAL MOTTO FOR 170 YEARS PRIOR TO IN GOD WE TRUST?
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In short, "fascist" is a modern word for "heretic," branding an individual worthy of excommunication from the body politic. The right uses otherwords ("reverse-racist," "feminazi," "unamerican," "communist") for similiar purposes, but these words have less elastic meanings. Fascism, however, is the gift that keeps on giving. - Jonah Goldberg, revisited.

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Postby Tekania » Fri Nov 04, 2011 3:12 pm

Vestr-Norig wrote:
Autumn Wind wrote:

Nor does NOT having GOD in the motto make it oppressive atheistic communism. What accounts for the Christian Community's hyperactive issue with E Pluribus Unum?

It's about traditions, and keeping the nation as it is, not radically change everything just because of a small minority of atheists that do not stand any words or stuff having anything to do with Christianity.


I want to be even more traditional and drop that motto then, as I want to return back before the motto was initiated.... It wasn't adopted as an official motto till way back in ancient antiquity in the year One Thousand Nine Hundred and Fifty Six Anno Domini.
Last edited by Tekania on Fri Nov 04, 2011 3:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Hippostania » Fri Nov 04, 2011 3:12 pm

Vestr-Norig wrote:
Autumn Wind wrote:

Nor does NOT having GOD in the motto make it oppressive atheistic communism. What accounts for the Christian Community's hyperactive issue with E Pluribus Unum?

It's about traditions, and keeping the nation as it is, not radically change everything just because of a small minority of atheists that do not stand any words or stuff having anything to do with Christianity.

Atheists aren't a ''small minority'' in the Nordic countries. Only around 10% of Danes, Finns, Norwegians and Swedes classify religion as a very important part of their life.
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Postby Norstal » Fri Nov 04, 2011 3:12 pm

Vestr-Norig wrote:
Norstal wrote:Oh my god. This is hilarious. Highbrow words. Words cannot describe.

Oh and to let you know that you shouldn't conform to stereotype, I'm an atheist and I support HISTORICAL motto pertaining to god.


You cannot say "highbrow words?" Sorry, my English is rather bad, I did mean "finer", or more "intellectual" words, a bit sarcastically.

El Pluribus Unum has been more historically bound to the U.S. It is what the founding father wanted. Nay, it is what the founding fathers actually set the motto to be. They would've vomit and killed themselves if they ever saw our motto turned out like this.

They are not "highbrow words". Which is why I support using El Pluribus Unum instead.
Last edited by Norstal on Fri Nov 04, 2011 3:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Tekania
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Postby Tekania » Fri Nov 04, 2011 3:14 pm

Autumn Wind wrote:
Vestr-Norig wrote:
It's about traditions, and keeping the nation as it is, not radically change everything just because of a small minority of atheists that do not stand any words or stuff having anything to do with Christianity.


It's about traditions, and keeping the nation as it is, not radically change everything just because Christians that do not stand any words or stuff having anything to do with Democracy.

WHAT IS WRONG WITH E PLURIBUS UNUM WHICH WAS THE UNOFFICAL MOTTO FOR 170 YEARS PRIOR TO IN GOD WE TRUST?


E Pluribus Unum is not unofficial, it was adopted by official act of congress in 1782.
Such heroic nonsense!

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Vestr-Norig
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Postby Vestr-Norig » Fri Nov 04, 2011 3:14 pm

Autumn Wind wrote:
Vestr-Norig wrote:
It's about traditions, and keeping the nation as it is, not radically change everything just because of a small minority of atheists that do not stand any words or stuff having anything to do with Christianity.


It's about traditions, and keeping the nation as it is, not radically change everything just because Christians that do not stand any words or stuff having anything to do with Democracy.

WHAT IS WRONG WITH E PLURIBUS UNUM WHICH WAS THE UNOFFICAL MOTTO FOR 170 YEARS PRIOR TO IN GOD WE TRUST?


Using Latin in the West, has been outdated for centuries. The language should represent the people, and be understandable for the people, and therfore, "In God We trust" is the better alternative.
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Postby Seibertron » Fri Nov 04, 2011 3:15 pm

Tekania wrote:
Autumn Wind wrote:
It's about traditions, and keeping the nation as it is, not radically change everything just because Christians that do not stand any words or stuff having anything to do with Democracy.

WHAT IS WRONG WITH E PLURIBUS UNUM WHICH WAS THE UNOFFICAL MOTTO FOR 170 YEARS PRIOR TO IN GOD WE TRUST?


E Pluribus Unum is not unofficial, it was adopted by official act of congress in 1782.

Well it has even more legitimacy as a tradition then
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Postby Soxastan » Fri Nov 04, 2011 3:16 pm

"God" was inserted into everything so we could claim the "higher moral ground" against the commies. Blame Eisenhower. "E pluribus unum" is the only motto that the US deserves. The founding fathers likes it and so did every other administration after that. We are a true nation that is, "Out of Many, One" I rest my case.

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Postby Senestrum » Fri Nov 04, 2011 3:17 pm

Vestr-Norig wrote:
Autumn Wind wrote:

Nor does NOT having GOD in the motto make it oppressive atheistic communism. What accounts for the Christian Community's hyperactive issue with E Pluribus Unum?

It's about traditions, and keeping the nation as it is, not radically change everything just because of a small minority of atheists that do not stand any words or stuff having anything to do with Christianity.


"IN GOD WE TRUST" WAS IN ITSELF A RADICAL CHANGE TO THE US MOTTO

The founding fathers made very fucking sure that church and state were separated. "In God We Trust" was made the US Motto over a hundred and fifty years later, and is in direct opposition to the ideals possessed by those who shaped this country. How is changing it to the original and far more historically relevant motto a break in tradition when it stood for three times longer than the travesty that is "In God We Trust"?
Last edited by Senestrum on Fri Nov 04, 2011 3:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Tekania
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Postby Tekania » Fri Nov 04, 2011 3:18 pm

Seibertron wrote:
Tekania wrote:
E Pluribus Unum is not unofficial, it was adopted by official act of congress in 1782.

Well it has even more legitimacy as a tradition then


It does, I like it. It better expresses our purpose and foundational identity. Instead of new fangled mottos like "In God We Trust". I'm not interested in those people in 1956 who attempted to destroy American tradition by enacting such a motto.
Such heroic nonsense!

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