For economy fix, Americans pick Reagan over Roosevelt

[Kaizerxisiv]

Agreed.

Roosevelt was a great President, in the top ten no doubt. However, if Roosevelt had the army we have today, he would have tried to conquer the world. American expansionalism and all that, since he did begin the Spanish-American War (not while he was President, bu while he was assistant secretary of the navy, and then he resigned tog go fight in it). When he was defeated, and there is no doubt he would be, he would be seen as another Napolean Ceasar, or Hitler, even.

You're talking about Theodore "Teddy" Roosevelt [Charge of San Juan Hill], and I think everyone else is pretty much talking about Franklin Delano Roosevelt [Wheelchair President]. Both are awesome guys, to be sure.

[AiliailiA]

*snip*

>Ignores facts that tax cuts weren't only part of Reagan's plans
>Gives no sources

Before you "reply" to my post in such a trivial way, note that I too am skeptical about the extent to which the good times were due to anything Reagan did (or Congress for that matter).

[Keronians]

I am generally Conservative, but I would vote for Roosevelt if his plan was just to join another world war. That's what truly recovered our economy from the Great Depression.

Uhhhh.. Bullshit. The worst of the Depression was over by 1934, 5 years before Germany invaded Poland. Your argument is invalid.

No, it wasn't.

The worst of the Great Depression was over by 1936.

But, of course, there was another recession in 1937, due to FDR cutting the New Deal's budget, which had a domino effect on the entire American economy and a Republican House in 1938.

[Keronians]

Agreed.

Roosevelt was a great President, in the top ten no doubt. However, if Roosevelt had the army we have today, he would have tried to conquer the world. American expansionalism and all that, since he did begin the Spanish-American War (not while he was President, bu while he was assistant secretary of the navy, and then he resigned tog go fight in it). When he was defeated, and there is no doubt he would be, he would be seen as another Napolean Ceasar, or Hitler, even.

We're talking about FDR, not Theodore Roosevelt.

Vetalia saying "New Deal" pretty much made that clear.

[Wikkiwallana]

Communist? Yeaaaaaa nope!

He didn't goad the Japanese. It was going to happen as there were many incidents between the two navies a couple decades up to the war.

I am trying to remember the book but it documented the cases. Immensely boring to read. Probably why I can't remember the title.

You would have better luck spinning the conspiracy theory he allowed Pearl Harbor to go down to get the US into the war.......

He cut off trade with Japan and started helping the Chinese when Japan invaded. Sending supplies and 'mercenaries' to go help.

Given what the Japanese did, that was the right move.

[Kaizerxisiv]

[AiliailiA]

I am generally Conservative, but I would vote for Roosevelt if his plan was just to join another world war. That's what truly recovered our economy from the Great Depression.

Uhhhh.. Bullshit. The worst of the Depression was over by 1934, 5 years before Germany invaded Poland. Your argument is invalid.

Another thing to note about the war is that it was funded by massive government borrowing (war bonds, sold to the US public mostly). In a sense, it was a huge stimulus package.

[Keronians]

He cut off trade with Japan and started helping the Chinese when Japan invaded. Sending supplies and 'mercenaries' to go help.

Given what the Japanese did, that was the right move.

Now, I've practically idolised FDR, but his embargo on Japan pretty much led to Pearl Harbor.

Which was, though, IMO, a good thing. Without America, the outcome of the war in Europe is put into doubt, since the USA's manufacturing ability was a big factor in the USSR turning the tide on Nazi Germany.

The British Empire fighting Japan and Germany...

[AiliailiA]

(Image)

Make a point please.

[Keronians]

(Image)

Yeah, note that slight drop there? That was the 1937 recession.

[Wikkiwallana]

(Image)

Ok, without some words, we don't know what that is supposed to prove. We aren't mind readers here.

Most of us, anyway...

Edit: typo

[Kaizerxisiv]

See that rise in 1934? That's the Great Depression coming to an end 5 years before Germany's invasion of Poland.

[Wikkiwallana]

Given what the Japanese did, that was the right move.

Now, I've practically idolised FDR, but his embargo on Japan pretty much led to Pearl Harbor.

Which was, though, IMO, a good thing. Without America, the outcome of the war in Europe is put into doubt, since the USA's manufacturing ability was a big factor in the USSR turning the tide on Nazi Germany.

The British Empire fighting Japan and Germany...

I'm not saying it was a choice without consequences, just that it was the right response to such atrocities.

[Keronians]

See that rise in 1934? That's the Great Depression coming to an end 5 years before Germany's invasion of Poland.

No, it isn't. Not even close.

1934 is when the recovery actually began.

[New Rogernomics]

At least Reagan isn't President any more, over here in NZ I have to listen to tired Reagan jokes, and terrible one liners like 'drunken sailors', 'show me the money' and the like, I can't remember whether we actually have a PM or a tape recorder. *hides under the covers, pretending this isn't real, and we don't have a government*

[Revolutopia]

Uhhhh.. Bullshit. The worst of the Depression was over by 1934, 5 years before Germany invaded Poland. Your argument is invalid.

No, it wasn't.

The worst of the Great Depression was over by 1936.

But, of course, there was another recession in 1937, due to FDR cutting the New Deal's budget, which had a domino effect on the entire American economy and a Republican House in 1938.

This is correct, besides a little point in that while the Republicans gained a number of seats they did not take back the house until 1946. But saying that in the last election the Democrats had won 76.7% of the house it is not surprising that they could not hold onto it.

[Caninope]

>Ignores facts that tax cuts weren't only part of Reagan's plans
>Gives no sources

Why don't you go back and provide a source in the post he responded to?

A source for there being a boom or a source for the Keynesian arguments? Either way, my argument doesn't heavily rely on numbers that I didn't provide.

[Caninope]

Except that there was a boom in Reagan's Presidency. How much of this is attributable to his policies is debatable, but there was.

There was a boom despite his policies.

It was also based on a bubble. So, irrationality.

The American economy from the '80s until the recent recession followed one bubble after the other.

First Reagan's bubble, then the dot com bubble, then the real estate bubble.

There was a boom thanks to the ability to grow after the early 80's recession. Krugman has argued in the past that it came from the monetary policies of Chairman Volcker, an ally of Reagan and Carter, who acted like a Keynesian.

[Euronion]

probably bcause Roosevelt was a socialist who believed in a Federal Governemnt with all the power indicated by his elimination of the gold standard, besides Reagan pulled America out of a depression after Jimmy Carter failed to do so and Reagan was more recent.

[Caninope]

>Ignores facts that tax cuts weren't only part of Reagan's plans
>Gives no sources

Before you "reply" to my post in such a trivial way, note that I too am skeptical about the extent to which the good times were due to anything Reagan did (or Congress for that matter).

Which I why I noted, in my original post, that the argument over how much it can be attributed to Reagan's policies still rages.

[Kaizerxisiv]

See that rise in 1934? That's the Great Depression coming to an end 5 years before Germany's invasion of Poland.

No, it isn't. Not even close.

1934 is when the recovery actually began.

Tomato, tomato. Point is, FDR was elected in '33, and was re-elected 3 times, and he signed some of the most progressive legislation in American history, including the New Deal series, Fair Labor Standards Act, Executive Order 8802, etc etc. Only thing he did I really disagreed with was order 9066 that put Japanese people in American detainment centers..

[AiliailiA]

See that rise in 1934? That's the Great Depression coming to an end 5 years before Germany's invasion of Poland.

OK, at least you aren't trying to make some point about stimulus spending by pointing to private debt.

It's unclear whether the graph is of GDP in adjusted dollars or raw, but in any case the recovery (return to the previous level) took until the beginning of WW2 and if you use a graph which shows the 40's as well, you will see a massive spike in GDP which makes the recovery look slow!

WW2 was like two New Deals put together, seen only as economic stimulus (of course, that's a bad reason to have a war ...)

[Keronians]

No, it isn't. Not even close.

1934 is when the recovery actually began.

Tomato, tomato. Point is, FDR was elected in '33, and was re-elected 3 times, and he signed some of the most progressive legislation in American history, including the New Deal series, Fair Labor Standards Act, Executive Order 8802, etc etc. Only thing he did I really disagreed with was order 9066 that put Japanese people in American detainment centers..

Nitpick, but he was elected in '32, not '33. He took office in '33.

His hundred days were one of the most momentous in American history.

Yeah, order 9066 is a stain on an otherwise perfect shirt.

[Kaizerxisiv]

probably bcause Roosevelt was a socialist who believed in a Federal Governemnt with all the power indicated by his elimination of the gold standard, besides Reagan pulled America out of a depression after Jimmy Carter failed to do so and Reagan was more recent.

Nixon eliminated the gold standard, not FDR.

[Keronians]

probably bcause Roosevelt was a socialist who believed in a Federal Governemnt with all the power indicated by his elimination of the gold standard, besides Reagan pulled America out of a depression after Jimmy Carter failed to do so and Reagan was more recent.

FDR wasn't a socialist. He is also consistently ranked as one of the best presidents in American history. Behind only Abraham Lincoln.

Reagan managed to get in office when a bubble was brewing, which he fed with Reaganomics.