Capitalism vs. Communism

[Sibirsky]

Alright. Name me one nation the Soviet Union made better in their ENTIRE lifetime.

there are none because the Soviet Union was anything it was pointless it wasnt communist it was socialist it wasnt anarchist it was State Capitalism.......... Use your noodle dude and actually get an education. You stupid Yank

It was socialist.

[Zersium]

Not worth it?

All of what you said, is blatant lies. Risk leads to progress. Capitalism, is far more able to provide the basic needs of society than anything else. Money, is tool. Store of value, unit of account and most importantly medium of exchange.

You should feel sorry for those stuck in socialist economies like you wish everyone was. They have incomes (adjusted for purchasing power parity), many times lower than my income. And I'm not even rich (by capitalist standards). But I am extremely wealthy, by theirs.

Have you understood anything I have written? I am in support of no state no economy and people just helping eachother for what they need rather than what they want...Jeez

I'm not a yank, by the way. You know, because I was born in BRITAIN?

And you support EQUALITY. Equality is pathetic, and it's for people who don't know what Communism is.

You can support Communism for all I care.

But one question:
Name me one example of a true Communist country.

[Sanguinthium]

1. except buildings are products, and in socialist nations, such as China, there is an abundance of products; have you been to walmart lately? like in the time between circa 1990 and now?

China is not socialist.

Buildings are not the only products.

2.you're wrong then.

You are, provably wrong on every single count.

3. you arent paying more for less, your paying more for the same, with the added bonus of security.

Security? You are insane,

You're actually paying less. The higher cost in terms of extremely low pay.

4. by 1991, the soviet union had just about collapsed, because of Gorbachev had bastardized the dream.

Gorby actually did great things.

But those kinds of shortages, were the norm elsewhere. You don't think I remember 2-3 hour long lines, to get a dozen eggs? What kind of idiot thinks that's better?

5. all socialism is headed to communism, otherwise it isn't following the socialist process, ergo losing the term socialist. N. Korea, Cuba, fascist. particularly n. korea.

Socialism = collective or state ownership of the means of production.

In fascism, means of production are controlled by the state, while being in private hands.

they DON'T

Do you ever use facts, or are you content with spouting lies?

This is false. The west's poor, as a group have a higher standard of living, than the middle classes of "middle income economies."

And socialist economies are fucking poor. Low income economies.

Poverty is poverty, no matter where you are, so in this regard, you are right...
But it depends on what we define as 'poor'. But I generally agree.

Poverty in the west, is driving a shit car, that's 20 years old. It's having a small dwelling. It's having only 2 TVs, which are smaller and not HD. Having a cheap DVD player, and not the latest Blue ray player. That's poverty?

Poverty in the third world is not being able to eat. It's spending 40% of your income, or more on food. And not because you dine out all the time and live it up. But because you make so little.

1. china is socialist according to the government. and, they abuse their people; if they are capitalist, that ought to be impossible.

2. i never said they were; i used them as an example. how about the guns, nukes, computers, airplanes?

3. no, you are wrong.

4. the soviet union was safe after roughly 1956.

5. Gorby was a traitor to the cause.

6. poverty in the west is driving a shit car? really? pathetic. you have never experienced poverty.



THAT is poverty; that picture is of an AMERICAN.

here is probably where you live:


you have never had to worry about when you would eat, if your sister will be able to eat; you got food after waiting for three hours. get over yourself- this man gets food only if enough people care enough to spare a fucking dollar.


try living in poverty for a month, like i lived for almost my entire life, before you even begin to think what poverty is.

[Sanguinthium]

Have you understood anything I have written? I am in support of no state no economy and people just helping eachother for what they need rather than what they want...Jeez

I'm not a yank, by the way. You know, because I was born in BRITAIN?

And you support EQUALITY. Equality is pathetic, and it's for people who don't know what Communism is.

You can support Communism for all I care.

But one question:
Name me one example of a true Communist country.

there are none, because to become a truly communist country, they would have to stop being a country.

[Sibirsky]

Not worth it?

All of what you said, is blatant lies. Risk leads to progress. Capitalism, is far more able to provide the basic needs of society than anything else. Money, is tool. Store of value, unit of account and most importantly medium of exchange.

You should feel sorry for those stuck in socialist economies like you wish everyone was. They have incomes (adjusted for purchasing power parity), many times lower than my income. And I'm not even rich (by capitalist standards). But I am extremely wealthy, by theirs.

Have you understood anything I have written? I am in support of no state no economy and people just helping eachother for what they need rather than what they want...Jeez

That's extremely inefficient.

I;d rather live in a socialist shithole, rather than your society.

[Zersium]

I'm not a yank, by the way. You know, because I was born in BRITAIN?

And you support EQUALITY. Equality is pathetic, and it's for people who don't know what Communism is.

You can support Communism for all I care.

But one question:
Name me one example of a true Communist country.

there are none, because to become a truly communist country, they would have to stop being a country.

Exactly, but he'd plague that with a response about how I'm some Yank who needs to get an education.

[Alagassia]

there are none, because to become a truly communist country, they would have to stop being a country.

Exactly, but he'd plague that with a response about how I'm some Yank who needs to get an education.

No I would reply with A country cant be communist as communism demands the end of countries

[Zersium]

Exactly, but he'd plague that with a response about how I'm some Yank who needs to get an education.

No I would reply with A country cant be communist as communism demands the end of countries

Communism demands the end of ALL. Take for example a communist man, he's sitting in his Communist house. In his communist country.

I have two billion capitalist tanks. Goodbye. By ridding yourself of a nation you deprive yourself of not only your identity, but your humanity. You have nothing to defend from a nation who sees you as weak.

And Communism is weak.

[Toe-Cheeseland]

I'm a sort of Socialist and Capitalist, I believe that hard work = success, but because not everyone is able to get a job, we should help those that are able, get a job, and those that aren't (Eg. heavily disabled/old etc.) should be assisted.
In addition, in Capitalism vs Communism, both are noble and could be perfect in their theory. But human error and human greed corrupts them.

[Alagassia]

No I would reply with A country cant be communist as communism demands the end of countries

Communism demands the end of ALL. Take for example a communist man, he's sitting in his Communist house. In his communist country.

I have two billion capitalist tanks. Goodbye. By ridding yourself of a nation you deprive yourself of not only your identity, but your humanity. You have nothing to defend from a nation who sees you as weak.

And Communism is weak.

Violence the last resort of a common ape....

[Zersium]

Communism demands the end of ALL. Take for example a communist man, he's sitting in his Communist house. In his communist country.

I have two billion capitalist tanks. Goodbye. By ridding yourself of a nation you deprive yourself of not only your identity, but your humanity. You have nothing to defend from a nation who sees you as weak.

And Communism is weak.

Violence the last resort of a common ape....

You still haven't answered correctly.

How on earth will you defend yourself? I'm not here to discuss morality of the world, that's for the Religion vs Athiesm (doesn't exist yet) thread!

[Alagassia]

I'm a sort of Socialist and Capitalist, I believe that hard work = success, but because not everyone is able to get a job, we should help those that are able, get a job, and those that aren't (Eg. heavily disabled/old etc.) should be assisted.
In addition, in Capitalism vs Communism, both are noble and could be perfect in their theory. But human error and human greed corrupts them.

Well said.

[Anti Neo Nazis]

The biggest fallacy in the anti-Capitalism argument is the notion that advocates of Capitalism are in favor of some pure form of capitalism. Pure capitalism essentially existed during the industrial revolution. That was a time of massive exploitation, vast poverty and income inequality that would make the OWS people faint. Then government got wise and started to regulate the markets. They started to implement things like safety regulations, and minimum wage legislation. It stopped most of the exploitation that existed in the industrial world. No one of arguing a return to that (except those silly An-Caps but we just ignore them). Of course government should step in if someone is being screwed over. Of course government should do what it can to help the poor. Now that doesn't mean giving them a handout for the rest of their life and killing their incentive to work, but not even us evil capitalists want people to starve to death.

The existence of poverty is another argument I see that somehow is seen to discredit capitalism. Yes, poverty exists in capitalist nations. It exists in the sense that some people are poorer than others. Why? Because in a market system your level of income is generally based on your ability, your intelligence, your work ethic. Naturally some people simply cannot compete in the market. Income inequality is going to exist. But look at what capitalism has brought us. The western capitalist nations are far, far better off than any other nation, fascist, socialist, communist, etc., in the world. The poorest of the poor in America are actually quite well off by international standards. Now thats not saying we should be satisfied with that. We should strive for a society where poverty, both absolute and relative, is minimized. But implementing programs and tax policies that kill incentives is not the right way to do it. The best way to help someone out of poverty is to give them a job. Corporations tend to be quite good at giving people jobs. Yet leftists advocate taxing corporations at ridiculous amounts in an attempt to bring equality to society. In the attempt to make society more equal, you often make it poorer, and thats what socialists don't get. You can't have your cake and eat it too. If you want a wealthy society, you have to concede that some people will simply not be able to compete, and we should try to help those people, without killing the very mechanism that brought us the wealth in the first place.

[Alagassia]

Violence the last resort of a common ape....

You still haven't answered correctly.

How on earth will you defend yourself? I'm not here to discuss morality of the world, that's for the Religion vs Athiesm (doesn't exist yet) thread! [/

You shouldnt need to defend yourself. If other people are going to attack then that just shows how inferior they are to others. Im not a proponent of Communism or Socialism I am an Anarchist.

[The Merchant Republics]

there are none, because to become a truly communist country, they would have to stop being a country.

Exactly, but he'd plague that with a response about how I'm some Yank who needs to get an education.

Country =/= State, to be a Grammar Nazi.

A Communist Country could exist, a Communist State, at least so far as Marx's concludes, cannot.

However Marx has been demonstrably been proven wrong. No true Scotsmen though eh?

Soviet Union was corrupted, China was corrupted, North Korea was corrupted, Cuba was corrupted.

Shouldn't it be obvious by now? John, Jane and Jack all go into a dark and twisted cave, supposedly at the end of the cave is a pot of gold, each one of them walks in and never comes back. The problem here is the cave, not that neither John, Jane or Jack can see in the dark.

[North Calaveras]

Exactly where does it say anything about being poor in the bolded and underlined statement, for that matter it doesn't even imply it.

you did imply it; if you starve to death, its either because your a rich/mid class anorexic, a homeless man, or a poor man who refuses to go on welfare from pride.

Yeah, that just makes you stupid, not BECAUSE your poor. Their just to dumb to find a meal when its available to them. If your starving and refuse to eat just because your to prideful that makes you pretty dumb.

[Zersium]

You still haven't answered correctly.

How on earth will you defend yourself? I'm not here to discuss morality of the world, that's for the Religion vs Athiesm (doesn't exist yet) thread! [/

You shouldnt need to defend yourself. If other people are going to attack then that just shows how inferior they are to others. Im not a proponent of Communism or Socialism I am an Anarchist.

Alright let me propose one last statement

What if we hate Communism? what would you do then? Without a military, what would you do to "persuade" us into Communism?

[Sibirsky]

1. china is socialist according to the government. and, they abuse their people; if they are capitalist, that ought to be impossible.

Governments lie. And, governments treatment of it's people has nothing to do with the economic system

Not rocket science.

2. i never said they were; i used them as an example. how about the guns, nukes, computers, airplanes?

Useless to the typical person.

3. no, you are wrong.

Prove it,

4. the soviet union was safe after roughly 1956.

Not if you happened to disagree with the government.

5. Gorby was a traitor to the cause.

Fuck your cause. The cause failed. Gorby knew it, and reacted. By increasing freedom.

6. poverty in the west is driving a shit car? really? pathetic. you have never experienced poverty.

Yes, I have. Poverty in the US, is income below ~ $11,000 person. That is 2 times higher than the average income in China. 3 times higher than the average income in India.

Which have been growing rapidly, after they decided to move towards markets.

(Image)

THAT is poverty; that picture is of an AMERICAN.

Yes. And it's sad. But it's not in any way, shape or form representative of the poor. Less than 0.2% of the poor, are homeless.

here is probably where you live:
(Image)

This is irrelevant.

you have never had to worry about when you would eat, if your sister will be able to eat; you got food after waiting for three hours. get over yourself- this man gets food only if enough people care enough to spare a fucking dollar.

He has options. And people do care. And do give him money. He can go to a shelter. He can get a basic education, and get an entry level job, and go from there. Many people have gone on to do great things, after being homeless.

try living in poverty for a month, like i lived for almost my entire life, before you even begin to think what poverty is.

A. Spare the fucking sob story.
B. I lived in poverty for more than a decade, in your paradise of the USSR.

[The FTR]

I almost began typing, assuming this was in the NS thread. But it is in general.

So, I support Capitalism because it gives me more freedom as a person, for I don't run a country, so I like freedom. Depending on the Capitalism to Communism scale in Socialism, I may support it as much as Capitalism, or not get involved with it.

[Zersium]

I almost began typing, assuming this was in the NS thread. But it is in general.

So, I support Capitalism because it gives me more freedom as a person, for I don't run a country, so I like freedom. Depending on the Capitalism to Communism scale in Socialism, I may support it as much as Capitalism, or not get involved with it.

I know about G-Bay, but when has Capitalism ever really dictated our lives compared to Stalin or any SU Leader (except Gorby. Lenin still caused the Great Famine.)

From what I know of my Grandfather's trip (he was studying the SU and comparing it to the USA) the USA was much better. You weren't executed on the spot for disagreeing with 'Old Stalin. Bad man. Great Moustache.

So I agree with you.

[The Merchant Republics]

you did imply it; if you starve to death, its either because your a rich/mid class anorexic, a homeless man, or a poor man who refuses to go on welfare from pride.

Yeah, that just makes you stupid, not BECAUSE your poor. Their just to dumb to find a meal when its available to them. If your starving and refuse to eat just because your to prideful that makes you pretty dumb.

Sanguinthium if you've ever worked in a soup kitchen or visited a food bank, you'd know, the homeless and poor do not die unless they purposefully refuse charity.

Because whenever I have, they have been stocked weeks in ahead.


It's insane with Capitalism only the adamantly prideful starve, under state socialism, demonstrably, people starved, even working people starved. Yet Capitalism is the evil society? This is absurd.

[-St George]

Uhhh yeah Socialism is the First phase towrds Communism. Go get an education dumbass

No, it's not actually.

Feudalism is the first step to communism. It is more accurate to say that socialism is the first step in a post-capitalist society towards communism. Marx believed that each step, each type of society was leading towards communism.

[North Calaveras]

Yeah, that just makes you stupid, not BECAUSE your poor. Their just to dumb to find a meal when its available to them. If your starving and refuse to eat just because your to prideful that makes you pretty dumb.

Sanguinthium if you've ever worked in a soup kitchen or visited a food bank, you'd know, the homeless and poor do not die unless they purposefully refuse charity.

Because whenever I have, they have been stocked weeks in ahead.


It's insane with Capitalism only the adamantly prideful starve, under state socialism, demonstrably, people starved, even working people starved. Yet Capitalism is the evil society? This is absurd.

This ^

but they will just say " Oh that wasn't REAL socialism or REAL Communism you don't know what real socialism/communism is!" That's their best comeback.

[Sibirsky]

The biggest fallacy in the anti-Capitalism argument is the notion that advocates of Capitalism are in favor of some pure form of capitalism. Pure capitalism essentially existed during the industrial revolution. That was a time of massive exploitation, vast poverty and income inequality that would make the OWS people faint. Then government got wise and started to regulate the markets. They started to implement things like safety regulations, and minimum wage legislation. It stopped most of the exploitation that existed in the industrial world. No one of arguing a return to that (except those silly An-Caps but we just ignore them). Of course government should step in if someone is being screwed over. Of course government should do what it can to help the poor. Now that doesn't mean giving them a handout for the rest of their life and killing their incentive to work, but not even us evil capitalists want people to starve to death.

This isn't true. Nothing about the times of the industrial revolution is pure capitalism. Business were subsidized.

And workplace safety laws, are nice, only if you can afford them. That's the key. Government cannot legislate poverty out of existence.

[Zersium]

Sanguinthium if you've ever worked in a soup kitchen or visited a food bank, you'd know, the homeless and poor do not die unless they purposefully refuse charity.

Because whenever I have, they have been stocked weeks in ahead.


It's insane with Capitalism only the adamantly prideful starve, under state socialism, demonstrably, people starved, even working people starved. Yet Capitalism is the evil society? This is absurd.

This ^

but they will just say " Oh that wasn't REAL socialism or REAL Communism you don't know what real socialism/communism is!" That's their best comeback.

Nah, Alagassia's comeback about Yanks and Education's were better.