Capitalism vs. Communism

[Anti Neo Nazis]

The very fact that Communists/Socialists still exist is a testament to the failure of our education system. Capitalism, though not perfect, works, because it jives with human nature. Humans, overwhelmingly are greedy and brutish. We will maximize out own personal satisfaction at all costs. A decentralized market system, built on incentives and competition allows for a maximization of social welfare. Its unquestionable. This debate shouldn't even exist. The last 150 years of human history are indisputable evidence of the success of capitalism and the failure of communism and socialism.

[Sibirsky]

I dont know why your slapping head Sibirsky, unfortunately it's true. If you actually know anything about Socialism then you would know that Socialism is the first phase towards Communism which is the same goal as Anarchy I.E No nation no state. I strive for an end to borders but it neednt be violent a nation born of violence lives violently. I do wish people would know as much as I do about these things *Rolls eyes*

Don't give me that semantic bullshit.

Communism is impossible. Therefore, socialism cannot be the road to communism.

The textbook definition of it, is commonly or state owned means of production. Which the USSR and Cuba, most definitely were.

[Sovietiya]

Once again, I was making a joke...

BTW, about free markets:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QDv4sYw ... plpp_video

Enjoy

Your jokes are not funny.

Somalia, is far from a free market paradise. Yet, despite it's short comings, it has done much better without government, than with the socialist government it had before that.

Far from a free market paradise?!
How much freer of a market can you get? There is no government. No taxes, regulation, public sector. Zip, zilch, nada.

[Sibirsky]

Far from a free market paradise?!
How much freer of a market can you get? There is no government. No taxes, regulation, public sector. Zip, zilch, nada.

There is no protection of property. No enforcement of contracts. No laws.

Laws don't have to be state made. And they do have taxes.

[Alagassia]

I dont know why your slapping head Sibirsky, unfortunately it's true. If you actually know anything about Socialism then you would know that Socialism is the first phase towards Communism which is the same goal as Anarchy I.E No nation no state. I strive for an end to borders but it neednt be violent a nation born of violence lives violently. I do wish people would know as much as I do about these things *Rolls eyes*

Don't give me that semantic bullshit.

Communism is impossible. Therefore, socialism cannot be the road to communism.

The textbook definition of it, is commonly or state owned means of production. Which the USSR and Cuba, most definitely were.

It's only impossible because people think it is. If you believe it's possible it works. Uhhh yeah Socialism is the First phase towrds Communism. Go get an education dumbass

[Sibirsky]

The very fact that Communists/Socialists still exist is a testament to the failure of our education system. Capitalism, though not perfect, works, because it jives with human nature. Humans, overwhelmingly are greedy and brutish. We will maximize out own personal satisfaction at all costs. A decentralized market system, built on incentives and competition allows for a maximization of social welfare. Its unquestionable. This debate shouldn't even exist. The last 150 years of human history are indisputable evidence of the success of capitalism and the failure of communism and socialism.

I agree.

[Sovietiya]

Far from a free market paradise?!
How much freer of a market can you get? There is no government. No taxes, regulation, public sector. Zip, zilch, nada.

There is no protection of property. No enforcement of contracts. No laws.

Laws don't have to be state made. And they do have taxes.

They do have taxes? Oh, well thank you for educating me on that.

But, may I ask a question. Obviously you are pro-market, but would you class yourself as a 'Libertarian'? (you don't have to answer, this is just so I may continue a point I wish to debate).

[Sovietiya]

A decentralized market system, built on incentives and competition allows for a maximization of social welfare.

wtf?

[Sibirsky]

Don't give me that semantic bullshit.

Communism is impossible. Therefore, socialism cannot be the road to communism.

The textbook definition of it, is commonly or state owned means of production. Which the USSR and Cuba, most definitely were.

It's only impossible because people think it is. If you believe it's possible it works. Uhhh yeah Socialism is the First phase towrds Communism. Go get an education dumbass

A. I used the textbook definition of socialism.

B. Thinking something is possible does not make it work. If I think I can make the moon drop to the earth that does not make it so.

C. Why on earth, after securing more power than anyone can ever imagine, over any given territory, would a select few give it up?

The "dictatorship of the proletariat" has control over everything. All industry. All roads. All borders. All media. All prices, production, wages. EVERYTHING.

And then it withers away? What?

[Zersium]

Don't give me that semantic bullshit.

Communism is impossible. Therefore, socialism cannot be the road to communism.

The textbook definition of it, is commonly or state owned means of production. Which the USSR and Cuba, most definitely were.

It's only impossible because people think it is. If you believe it's possible it works. Uhhh yeah Socialism is the First phase towrds Communism. Go get an education dumbass

Right, watch what you say eh? That guy hadn't said anything like that to you, so don't start insulting, it's quite rude.

Communism: No, it IS impossible. You go out and find me a nation willing to turn Communist. and the SU is a nation that didn't want to be. the SU was ruled over by Stalin until he thankfully died.

[Sibirsky]

There is no protection of property. No enforcement of contracts. No laws.

Laws don't have to be state made. And they do have taxes.

They do have taxes? Oh, well thank you for educating me on that.

But, may I ask a question. Obviously you are pro-market, but would you class yourself as a 'Libertarian'? (you don't have to answer, this is just so I may continue a point I wish to debate).

I am libertarian. Not Libertarian.

I am not a member of, nor do I agree with (entirely) with the Libertarian Party.

[Sibirsky]

A decentralized market system, built on incentives and competition allows for a maximization of social welfare.

wtf?

You want to help the poor?

Give them markets and freedom, because that will create the fastest economic growth. And that's what helps them most.

[Alagassia]

It's only impossible because people think it is. If you believe it's possible it works. Uhhh yeah Socialism is the First phase towrds Communism. Go get an education dumbass

A. I used the textbook definition of socialism.

B. Thinking something is possible does not make it work. If I think I can make the moon drop to the earth that does not make it so.

C. Why on earth, after securing more power than anyone can ever imagine, over any given territory, would a select few give it up?

The "dictatorship of the proletariat" has control over everything. All industry. All roads. All borders. All media. All prices, production, wages. EVERYTHING.

And then it withers away? What?

It's about humans being decent for a change. Unfortuantely people on here are starting to show me how arrogant you pathetic apes are. Just change your lifestyles and no, Marx going by his own definitions was not even Marxist. Capitalism is a disease, money is a disease, humanity is a plague!

[Sovietiya]

They do have taxes? Oh, well thank you for educating me on that.

But, may I ask a question. Obviously you are pro-market, but would you class yourself as a 'Libertarian'? (you don't have to answer, this is just so I may continue a point I wish to debate).

I am libertarian. Not Libertarian.

I am not a member of, nor do I agree with (entirely) with the Libertarian Party.

Just wanted to mention an inherent flaw with libertarian ideology.
About freedom and property rights. If you are not one 100% then it does not matter, but I will show you a link I found interesting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhZbX05Y ... plpp_video

[Sibirsky]

A. I used the textbook definition of socialism.

B. Thinking something is possible does not make it work. If I think I can make the moon drop to the earth that does not make it so.

C. Why on earth, after securing more power than anyone can ever imagine, over any given territory, would a select few give it up?

The "dictatorship of the proletariat" has control over everything. All industry. All roads. All borders. All media. All prices, production, wages. EVERYTHING.

And then it withers away? What?

It's about humans being decent for a change. Unfortuantely people on here are starting to show me how arrogant you pathetic apes are. Just change your lifestyles and no, Marx going by his own definitions was not even Marxist. Capitalism is a disease, money is a disease, humanity is a plague!

And you are telling me to get an education?

Capitalism is far more efficient economic system.

Money is a disease? Money, is a medium of exchange. And a store of value. And a unit of account.

What do you propose, a barter economy? That's efficient!

[Sibirsky]

I am libertarian. Not Libertarian.

I am not a member of, nor do I agree with (entirely) with the Libertarian Party.

Just wanted to mention an inherent flaw with libertarian ideology.
About freedom and property rights. If you are not one 100% then it does not matter, but I will show you a link I found interesting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhZbX05Y ... plpp_video

Can you summarize? I'm at work, cannot watch these.

[Zersium]

A. I used the textbook definition of socialism.

B. Thinking something is possible does not make it work. If I think I can make the moon drop to the earth that does not make it so.

C. Why on earth, after securing more power than anyone can ever imagine, over any given territory, would a select few give it up?

The "dictatorship of the proletariat" has control over everything. All industry. All roads. All borders. All media. All prices, production, wages. EVERYTHING.

And then it withers away? What?

It's about humans being decent for a change. Unfortuantely people on here are starting to show me how arrogant you pathetic apes are. Just change your lifestyles and no, Marx going by his own definitions was not even Marxist. Capitalism is a disease, money is a disease, humanity is a plague!

But ironicly, maybe we don't WANT Communism. Ergo, if you enforce it, that makes you arrogant.

[Alagassia]

It's about humans being decent for a change. Unfortuantely people on here are starting to show me how arrogant you pathetic apes are. Just change your lifestyles and no, Marx going by his own definitions was not even Marxist. Capitalism is a disease, money is a disease, humanity is a plague!

And you are telling me to get an education?

Capitalism is far more efficient economic system.

Money is a disease? Money, is a medium of exchange. And a store of value. And a unit of account.

What do you propose, a barter economy? That's efficient!

Capitalism is risky it's not worth it, money is fictitious it is made up as is everything else, and Capitalism makes it that some people cant eat cant live cant breath. Thats the problem with anyone who is a supporter of Economics. You put money first before people. I feel sorry for you

[Zersium]

And you are telling me to get an education?

Capitalism is far more efficient economic system.

Money is a disease? Money, is a medium of exchange. And a store of value. And a unit of account.

What do you propose, a barter economy? That's efficient!

Capitalism is risky it's not worth it, money is fictitious it is made up as is everything else, and Capitalism makes it that some people cant eat cant live cant breath. Thats the problem with anyone who is a supporter of Economics. You put money first before people. I feel sorry for you

Alright. Name me one nation the Soviet Union made better in their ENTIRE lifetime.

[Sovietiya]

Just wanted to mention an inherent flaw with libertarian ideology.
About freedom and property rights. If you are not one 100% then it does not matter, but I will show you a link I found interesting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhZbX05Y ... plpp_video

Can you summarize? I'm at work, cannot watch these.

Ah not really. Would take a long post. Watch it when you get home.

[Jerusalem and Damascus]

I am capitalist because, well, if not, Holodomor.

[Alagassia]

Capitalism is risky it's not worth it, money is fictitious it is made up as is everything else, and Capitalism makes it that some people cant eat cant live cant breath. Thats the problem with anyone who is a supporter of Economics. You put money first before people. I feel sorry for you

Alright. Name me one nation the Soviet Union made better in their ENTIRE lifetime.

there are none because the Soviet Union was anything it was pointless it wasnt communist it was socialist it wasnt anarchist it was State Capitalism.......... Use your noodle dude and actually get an education. You stupid Yank

[Sibirsky]

And you are telling me to get an education?

Capitalism is far more efficient economic system.

Money is a disease? Money, is a medium of exchange. And a store of value. And a unit of account.

What do you propose, a barter economy? That's efficient!

Capitalism is risky it's not worth it, money is fictitious it is made up as is everything else, and Capitalism makes it that some people cant eat cant live cant breath. Thats the problem with anyone who is a supporter of Economics. You put money first before people. I feel sorry for you

Not worth it?

All of what you said, is blatant lies. Risk leads to progress. Capitalism, is far more able to provide the basic needs of society than anything else. Money, is tool. Store of value, unit of account and most importantly medium of exchange.

You should feel sorry for those stuck in socialist economies like you wish everyone was. They have incomes (adjusted for purchasing power parity), many times lower than my income. And I'm not even rich (by capitalist standards). But I am extremely wealthy, by theirs.

[The Merchant Republics]

A decentralized market system, built on incentives and competition allows for a maximization of social welfare.

wtf?

How is that even contested ground.

Look at the West, look at East. The simple fact is that the countries with the highest economic freedoms simultaneously have high, very high quality of life. There is no nation with low economic freedom and high quality of life. Even so-called "socialist" nations which are nothing close, like the Sweden and Norway, have considerably high economic freedoms, when compared to the rest of the world. Denmark, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Ireland, United States.

All 6 of these nations, are rated highest in the world for Human Development (i.e. Quality of Life), all 6 nations are simultaneously in the top ten for economic freedom.

The other 4 of the Top Ten for HDI are all in the top 25 for Economic Freedom, all in the Top 10 of the Economic Freedom are in the 40 for HDI (excluding Chile and Bahrain, all are in the Top 20).

There is simply no logical excuse for linking markets with poverty, particularly free markets, when the evidence is strongly against such a notion.

[Alagassia]

Capitalism is risky it's not worth it, money is fictitious it is made up as is everything else, and Capitalism makes it that some people cant eat cant live cant breath. Thats the problem with anyone who is a supporter of Economics. You put money first before people. I feel sorry for you

Not worth it?

All of what you said, is blatant lies. Risk leads to progress. Capitalism, is far more able to provide the basic needs of society than anything else. Money, is tool. Store of value, unit of account and most importantly medium of exchange.

You should feel sorry for those stuck in socialist economies like you wish everyone was. They have incomes (adjusted for purchasing power parity), many times lower than my income. And I'm not even rich (by capitalist standards). But I am extremely wealthy, by theirs.

Have you understood anything I have written? I am in support of no state no economy and people just helping eachother for what they need rather than what they want...Jeez