Capitalism vs. Communism

[Norstal]

you see, a communist country is no longer a country. stateless and classless. no state, no ruling class, all equal. "statism" and communism are entirely incompatible. in a way, communism is the most far-right society in existence, as its government is so small it is limited to counting votes (if that even counts; pardon the pun)

Slogans win minds. minds win wars. wars win freedom.

you seek enlightenment, and forcing enlightenment upon the populace is the quickest way to attaining communism.

Fuck enlightenment. There's a sale on Steam and if we have a dictatorship of the proletariat I won't be able to purchase Portal 2 at 75% off the price. The loss of the state also means the loss of currency and I ain't losing all that virtual dollars for nothing.

[Grachmen]

Fuck enlightenment. There's a sale on Steam and if we have a dictatorship of the proletariat I won't be able to purchase Portal 2 at 75% off the price. The loss of the state also means the loss of currency and I ain't losing all that virtual dollars for nothing.

as a bit of a nerd myself, I thought about this subject quite a bit. I am one of the many game developing hobbyist out in the world actually (never published anything though). Theoretically, in a anarcho-communist society, restrictions on hobby game developers such as myself would be removed quite a bit, allowing for a much wider variety of games, and for free none the less. Since quality software would be freely available (opensource software has proved to be a huge success on the internet, with software such as Blender and even the operating system of Linux) and making the information on using said software, and game development freely available, would theoretically greatly expand the ability and scope of hobby game developers, who, like they do now, publish their work for free download. So that newest, latest and greatest game would come out probably much more often, and be for free, a gamer's paradise.

[Odins Scandinavia]

you see, a communist country is no longer a country. stateless and classless. no state, no ruling class, all equal. "statism" and communism are entirely incompatible. in a way, communism is the most far-right society in existence, as its government is so small it is limited to counting votes (if that even counts; pardon the pun)

Slogans win minds. minds win wars. wars win freedom.

you seek enlightenment, and forcing enlightenment upon the populace is the quickest way to attaining communism.

Fuck enlightenment. There's a sale on Steam and if we have a dictatorship of the proletariat I won't be able to purchase Portal 2 at 75% off the price. The loss of the state also means the loss of currency and I ain't losing all that virtual dollars for nothing.

1. you actually pay for software?
2. I didn't like porthole, one or two. problem?
3. in a pure communist society, you wouldn't have to pay, or run the risk of getting caught by the (nonexistent) police.

[Odins Scandinavia]

Fuck enlightenment. There's a sale on Steam and if we have a dictatorship of the proletariat I won't be able to purchase Portal 2 at 75% off the price. The loss of the state also means the loss of currency and I ain't losing all that virtual dollars for nothing.

as a bit of a nerd myself, I thought about this subject quite a bit. I am one of the many game developing hobbyist out in the world actually (never published anything though). Theoretically, in a anarcho-communist society, restrictions on hobby game developers such as myself would be removed quite a bit, allowing for a much wider variety of games, and for free none the less. Since quality software would be freely available (opensource software has proved to be a huge success on the internet, with software such as Blender and even the operating system of Linux) and making the information on using said software, and game development freely available, would theoretically greatly expand the ability and scope of hobby game developers, who, like they do now, publish their work for free download. So that newest, latest and greatest game would come out probably much more often, and be for free, a gamer's paradise.

Firefox ftw

[Mike the Progressive]

Fuck enlightenment. There's a sale on Steam and if we have a dictatorship of the proletariat I won't be able to purchase Portal 2 at 75% off the price. The loss of the state also means the loss of currency and I ain't losing all that virtual dollars for nothing.

1. you actually pay for software?
2. I didn't like porthole, one or two. problem?
3. in a pure communist society, you wouldn't have to pay, or run the risk of getting caught by the (nonexistent) police.

If a pure communist society was even remotely achievable, I'd be a fucking communist.

But communism can not and never has existed, to the exception of some isolated tribes or communities.

[Odins Scandinavia]

1. you actually pay for software?
2. I didn't like porthole, one or two. problem?
3. in a pure communist society, you wouldn't have to pay, or run the risk of getting caught by the (nonexistent) police.

If a pure communist society was even remotely achievable, I'd be a fucking communist.

But communism can not and never has existed, to the exception of some isolated tribes or communities.

Wanna bet?

[Mike the Progressive]

If a pure communist society was even remotely achievable, I'd be a fucking communist.

But communism can not and never has existed, to the exception of some isolated tribes or communities.

Wanna bet?

OMG, it lasted a whole 3 years? Hold the presses! This just in, if the rest of the world played fair...

[Odins Scandinavia]

Wanna bet?

OMG, it lasted a whole 3 years? Hold the presses! This just in, if the rest of the world played fair...

it was achieved, and therefore your post was wrong.

in short, deal with it.

this is why pure communism goes hand-in-hand with world communism.

[Britennene]

Wanna bet?

OMG, it lasted a whole 3 years? Hold the presses! This just in, if the rest of the world played fair...

We can only blame USSR for it's short time. The nation itself was amazing, and did work.

[Odins Scandinavia]

OMG, it lasted a whole 3 years? Hold the presses! This just in, if the rest of the world played fair...

We can only blame USSR for it's short time. The nation itself was amazing, and did work.

meh. if only lenin had kept his promises...


Freedom in capitalist society always remains about the same as it was in ancient Greek republics: Freedom for slave owners.

[Mike the Progressive]

OMG, it lasted a whole 3 years? Hold the presses! This just in, if the rest of the world played fair...

We can only blame USSR for it's short time. The nation itself was amazing, and did work.

That's irrelevant. It really is.

Any system of government must not only take into account the interactions of its own people, but the reactions of other nations and peoples. The Free Territory just proves my point. Communism for all intents and purposes ignores that. It's a failed ideologue, because even in it's experimental phase, it was unable to stand. That's the reality of any nation, other people are gonna want the land you're sleeping, eating, and fucking on.

Get over it.

[Britennene]

We can only blame USSR for it's short time. The nation itself was amazing, and did work.

meh. if only lenin had kept his promises...

Yeah... His ideals were great, but then he became an authoritarian.

[Odins Scandinavia]

We can only blame USSR for it's short time. The nation itself was amazing, and did work.

That's irrelevant. It really is.

Any system of government must not only take into account the interactions of its own people, but the reactions of other nations and peoples. The Free Territory just proves my point. Communism for all intents and purposes ignores that. It's a failed ideologue, because even in it's experimental phase, it was unable to stand. That's the reality of any nation, other people are gonna want the land you're sleeping, eating, and fucking on.

Get over it.

which is why the Socialist process cannot be skipped elsewhere.

[Mike the Progressive]

That's irrelevant. It really is.

Any system of government must not only take into account the interactions of its own people, but the reactions of other nations and peoples. The Free Territory just proves my point. Communism for all intents and purposes ignores that. It's a failed ideologue, because even in it's experimental phase, it was unable to stand. That's the reality of any nation, other people are gonna want the land you're sleeping, eating, and fucking on.

Get over it.

which is why the Socialist process cannot be skipped elsewhere.

No process goes perfectly, and to create a stateless, classless society, you require (near) perfection in the transition. Even real socialism -the idea that the workers controls the means of production- is impossible, if not improbable without some higher centralized authority. Said authority maintains itself in order to keep control.

And yes, you can make the case that we should still keep on trying, but at what cost? How many more Maos and Stalins have to pass by, how many more millions have to die, in order to achieve this goal? When there is only one man left to fulfill it?

History has taught us a lesson on the failures not of the communist ideal, but of its implementation. All ideals are perfect and unless they can be adopted, they are useless.

[Odins Scandinavia]

which is why the Socialist process cannot be skipped elsewhere.

No process goes perfectly, and to create a stateless, classless society, you require (near) perfection in the transition. Even real socialism -the idea that the workers controls the means of production- is impossible, if not improbable without some higher centralized authority. Said authority maintains itself in order to keep control.

And yes, you can make the case that we should still keep on trying, but at what cost? How many more Maos and Stalins have to pass by, how many more millions have to die, in order to achieve this goal? When there is only one man left to fulfill it?

History has taught us a lesson on the failures not of the communist ideal, but of its implementation. All ideals are perfect and unless they can be adopted, they are useless.

careful, careful checks are in place.

and besides, Socialism has a very big, very powerful government. this government is elected and eventually becomes arbitrary and useless as its function (to protect the proletariat from bourgeois oppression, plan the economy) is done anyway by the populace.

"democracy is indispensable to socialism" -Vladimir Lenin.

[Odins Scandinavia]

meh. if only lenin had kept his promises...

Yeah... His ideals were great, but then he became an authoritarian.

Power Corrupts.

besides, i cannot help but blame his advisers for the direction his rule went. should have followed the left-communists.

[Mike the Progressive]

No process goes perfectly, and to create a stateless, classless society, you require (near) perfection in the transition. Even real socialism -the idea that the workers controls the means of production- is impossible, if not improbable without some higher centralized authority. Said authority maintains itself in order to keep control.

And yes, you can make the case that we should still keep on trying, but at what cost? How many more Maos and Stalins have to pass by, how many more millions have to die, in order to achieve this goal? When there is only one man left to fulfill it?

History has taught us a lesson on the failures not of the communist ideal, but of its implementation. All ideals are perfect and unless they can be adopted, they are useless.

careful, careful checks are in place.

and besides, Socialism has a very big, very powerful government. this government is elected and eventually becomes arbitrary and useless as its function (to protect the proletariat from bourgeois oppression, plan the economy) is done anyway by the populace.

"democracy is indispensable to socialism" -Vladimir Lenin.

Don't be naive. There are never enough checks in place, not to mention I reject the premise that a big, powerful government in a socialist society will wither away on its own. Instead, it will grow more and more. Even in democracy, what of the minority? What of decisions that must be now, not in a month when a referendum is held? You cannot have a sustaining government that is run by the people, and if that does collapse, it certainly won't transition into a stateless society.

The ideas are absolutely farfetched and outrageous.

[Odins Scandinavia]

careful, careful checks are in place.

and besides, Socialism has a very big, very powerful government. this government is elected and eventually becomes arbitrary and useless as its function (to protect the proletariat from bourgeois oppression, plan the economy) is done anyway by the populace.

"democracy is indispensable to socialism" -Vladimir Lenin.

Don't be naive. There are never enough checks in place, not to mention I reject the premise that a big, powerful government in a socialist society will wither away on its own. Instead, it will grow more and more. Even in democracy, what of the minority? What of decisions that must be now, not in a month when a referendum is held? You cannot have a sustaining government that is run by the people, and if that does collapse, it certainly won't transition into a stateless society.

The ideas are absolutely farfetched and outrageous.

it does not wither on its own; it becomes pointless, and ceases to exist after several generations of Indoctrination end with the collapse of the government under its own weight.

a minority will not exist in a Communist society; in a Socialist society, thats how democracy works. deal with it.

An infernal machine that produces every minute an impressive amount of poor, 26 million poor in 10 years are 2.6 million per year of new poor, this is the road, well, the road to hell. this is the road of Capitalism.

[Mike the Progressive]

Don't be naive. There are never enough checks in place, not to mention I reject the premise that a big, powerful government in a socialist society will wither away on its own. Instead, it will grow more and more. Even in democracy, what of the minority? What of decisions that must be now, not in a month when a referendum is held? You cannot have a sustaining government that is run by the people, and if that does collapse, it certainly won't transition into a stateless society.

The ideas are absolutely farfetched and outrageous.

it does not wither on its own; it becomes pointless, and ceases to exist after several generations of Indoctrination end with the collapse of the government under its own weight.

a minority will not exist in a Communist society; in a Socialist society, thats how democracy works. deal with it.

An infernal machine that produces every minute an impressive amount of poor, 26 million poor in 10 years are 2.6 million per year of new poor, this is the road, well, the road to hell. this is the road of Capitalism.

And that's exactly why I oppose democracy and value individualism above all else. Because everybody -the majority and the minority- matters. Furthermore, I'm skeptical of the transition from socialism to communism, because I do not believe that it can or will work (and I define success as it being flexible enough to sustain itself).

Capitalism is many things, but socialism is the real road to poverty. It destroys incentives to rise and succeed, to invent and be great. It prevents flexibility and reacts slowly to change. Any country that has tried to adopt rigid socialist policies has failed, jobs are lost and the government must spend more that it does not have to "protect" the proletariat.

Those under socialist governments did worse than those under capitalist ones. To clarify, this isn't a defense of anything absolute, the free market included. But I scoff at the idea that socialism can ever be truly implemented without people starving, unemployment remaining high, and so on.

Lowering the bar for everybody doesn't make life better, it doesn't end poverty. It just impoverishes everyone.

[Odins Scandinavia]

it does not wither on its own; it becomes pointless, and ceases to exist after several generations of Indoctrination end with the collapse of the government under its own weight.

a minority will not exist in a Communist society; in a Socialist society, thats how democracy works. deal with it.

An infernal machine that produces every minute an impressive amount of poor, 26 million poor in 10 years are 2.6 million per year of new poor, this is the road, well, the road to hell. this is the road of Capitalism.

And that's exactly why I oppose democracy and value individualism above all else. Because everybody -the majority and the minority- matters. Furthermore, I'm skeptical of the transition from socialism to communism, because I do not believe that it can or will work (and I define success as it being flexible enough to sustain itself).

Capitalism is many things, but socialism is the real road to poverty. It destroys incentives to rise and succeed, to invent and be great. It prevents flexibility and reacts slowly to change. Any country that has tried to adopt rigid socialist policies has failed, jobs are lost and the government must spend more that it does not have to "protect" the proletariat.

Those under socialist governments did worse than those under capitalist ones. To clarify, this isn't a defense of anything absolute, the free market included. But I scoff at the idea that socialism can ever be truly implemented without people starving, unemployment remaining high, and so on.

Lowering the bar for everybody doesn't make life better, it doesn't end poverty. It just impoverishes everyone.

there is no situation where one person is more important then 20. period.

wanna bet? look to venezuela!

[Moral Libertarians]

And that's exactly why I oppose democracy and value individualism above all else. Because everybody -the majority and the minority- matters. Furthermore, I'm skeptical of the transition from socialism to communism, because I do not believe that it can or will work (and I define success as it being flexible enough to sustain itself).

Capitalism is many things, but socialism is the real road to poverty. It destroys incentives to rise and succeed, to invent and be great. It prevents flexibility and reacts slowly to change. Any country that has tried to adopt rigid socialist policies has failed, jobs are lost and the government must spend more that it does not have to "protect" the proletariat.

Those under socialist governments did worse than those under capitalist ones. To clarify, this isn't a defense of anything absolute, the free market included. But I scoff at the idea that socialism can ever be truly implemented without people starving, unemployment remaining high, and so on.

Lowering the bar for everybody doesn't make life better, it doesn't end poverty. It just impoverishes everyone.

there is no situation where one person is more important then 20. period.

wanna bet? look to venezuela!

I don't think that article says what you think it says...

[Moral Libertarians]

Don't be naive. There are never enough checks in place, not to mention I reject the premise that a big, powerful government in a socialist society will wither away on its own. Instead, it will grow more and more. Even in democracy, what of the minority? What of decisions that must be now, not in a month when a referendum is held? You cannot have a sustaining government that is run by the people, and if that does collapse, it certainly won't transition into a stateless society.

The ideas are absolutely farfetched and outrageous.

it does not wither on its own; it becomes pointless, and ceases to exist after several generations of Indoctrination end with the collapse of the government under its own weight.

a minority will not exist in a Communist society; in a Socialist society, thats how democracy works. deal with it.

An infernal machine that produces every minute an impressive amount of poor, 26 million poor in 10 years are 2.6 million per year of new poor, this is the road, well, the road to hell. this is the road of Capitalism.

If wishes were wings, we'd all be able to fly.

[Duce Natura]

If we take a look at how we did things back in the primitive age, we fought for the women, like a competition. So free market capitalism is in the human spirit.


But, if we also take a look at how we managed to work togheter, corporatism could also work.


But we never took food of the strongest and gave them to the weak.

[Sibirsky]

OMG, it lasted a whole 3 years? Hold the presses! This just in, if the rest of the world played fair...

We can only blame USSR for it's short time. The nation itself was amazing, and did work.

[Duce Natura]

OMG, it lasted a whole 3 years? Hold the presses! This just in, if the rest of the world played fair...

We can only blame USSR for it's short time. The nation itself was amazing, and did work.

If a nation gets absorbed by manpower, it can work.

Did it get absorbed by a lack of a standing army, then it doesn't work.