Capitalism vs. Communism

[Four-sided Triangles]

every single thread ever posted on the subject, you said the government should outlaw sex.

No, I didn't. You can't find a single post where I proposed that. Not one.

[The USOT]

Actually, here's a list of charities that spent >75% on actual service programs. Many of them did much better than that

Edit Sidenote: The charities linked to above alone spent, according to this charity watchdog, over six and a half BILLION dollars alone on actual program expenses. That's $6,527,255,220 for anyone who wants a more exact figure.

Anyone find the irony in the fact that many avowed communists don't believe human compassion and charity can provide for the less fortunate? I know it's not fundamentally the same incentives in the economy, but you can't pretend that the parallels don't exist.
Is that irony, maybe just hypocrisy?

Its not really either... Likewise, many communists donate regularly to charity (a very large chunk of my income goes to various charities for instance). It is just a beleif that charity can not solve EVERYTHING. I can donate and help sustain schools in africa as much as I want. If they dont get a sustainable economy they can work off of and better themselves, no amount of charity is going to help them in the long run. Just keep them stuck there.

[The Aryan Nations]

every single thread ever posted on the subject, you said the government should outlaw sex.

No, I didn't. You can't find a single post where I proposed that. Not one.

its generally right before you say something along the lines of everyone should use artificial insemination.

[Four-sided Triangles]

its generally right before you say something along the lines of everyone should use artificial insemination.

Liar. I never said it once. I wish for everyone to voluntarily abstain from all sex.

[Norstal]

its generally right before you say something along the lines of everyone should use artificial insemination.

He believes that it should. It's his ideal world. Not something he wants to force on others. Therefore, he's not going to act on it because he know he won't be able to.

[Four-sided Triangles]

Also, it's not artificial insemination I want; it's externalized gestation.

[Sociobiology]

its generally right before you say something along the lines of everyone should use artificial insemination.

Liar. I never said it once. I wish for everyone to voluntarily abstain from all sex.

Harumph, Harumph, Harumph

[Sociobiology]

you arent tampering with genetics. you are using the socialist process over several generations to teach everyone to value community over individual. 'breed it out' is simply for lack of a better term.

Provided such a thing is actually possible within the confines of human biology.

which its not, group selection can never overcome natural selection, however natural selection in a social species encourages altruism. That would be how it evolved in the first place.

[Sociobiology]

And what laws would those be?

the "sex is bad bro you cant have sex its demeaning to women" crap.

Clearly someone needs to teach you proper technique.

[Sociobiology]

this is why greed and individual-over-community beliefs have to be bred out of the population. they all will work their absolute hardest, regardless as to material reward, as there is no money; only the beautiful image of brotherhood.

Yes. Because selective breeding programs and tampering with genetics ALWAYS make things so much better.

And you think a living T-rex that eats lawyers is a con?

[Grachmen]

Tabula Rasa. your arguing a nature vs nurture scenario. As, I'm fairly certain that a certain amount of greed and altruism is bred into us through natural selection, to say that the abundance of greed, and lack of altruism seen in our society is completely unaffected by a society that rewards greed seems ignorant. I believe what The Aryan Nations is arguing, is that over time, the population could adjust to be less greedy and more altruistic if greed is no longer rewarded, and altruism is.

[The Merchant Republics]

Anyone find the irony in the fact that many avowed communists don't believe human compassion and charity can provide for the less fortunate? I know it's not fundamentally the same incentives in the economy, but you can't pretend that the parallels don't exist.
Is that irony, maybe just hypocrisy?

Its not really either... Likewise, many communists donate regularly to charity (a very large chunk of my income goes to various charities for instance). It is just a beleif that charity can not solve EVERYTHING. I can donate and help sustain schools in africa as much as I want. If they dont get a sustainable economy they can work off of and better themselves, no amount of charity is going to help them in the long run. Just keep them stuck there.

I have to regret that statement, I forget the many perfectly competent communist thinkers out there.

That said the principle here is that if you don't believe people will support each other voluntarily now, it presents an odd case to argue that they would willingly give up their property to do so later.

I am of the same mind regarding charity, to quote Rockefeller, "Charity that does not make the recipient independent of it is squandered.", supporting schools and road building, stuff that will build their economies rather than just throwing money and food at the problems, often making it worse.

[The Aryan Nations]

Its not really either... Likewise, many communists donate regularly to charity (a very large chunk of my income goes to various charities for instance). It is just a beleif that charity can not solve EVERYTHING. I can donate and help sustain schools in africa as much as I want. If they dont get a sustainable economy they can work off of and better themselves, no amount of charity is going to help them in the long run. Just keep them stuck there.

I have to regret that statement, I forget the many perfectly competent communist thinkers out there.

That said the principle here is that if you don't believe people will support each other voluntarily now, it presents an odd case to argue that they would willingly give up their property to do so later.

I am of the same mind regarding charity, to quote Rockefeller, "Charity that does not make the recipient independent of it is squandered.", supporting schools and road building, stuff that will build their economies rather than just throwing money and food at the problems, often making it worse.

people are inherently greedy; socialist indoctrination is the only solution, and the only way to achieve communism

[The Aryan Nations]

Tabula Rasa. your arguing a nature vs nurture scenario. As, I'm fairly certain that a certain amount of greed and altruism is bred into us through natural selection, to say that the abundance of greed, and lack of altruism seen in our society is completely unaffected by a society that rewards greed seems ignorant. I believe what The Aryan Nations is arguing, is that over time, the population could adjust to be less greedy and more altruistic if greed is no longer rewarded, and altruism is.

essentially that; however, i am arguing for the method to be a sharing is caring type campaign, mixed with government incentive.

in essense, pre-school will pave the road to the classless, stateless society.

[Trotskylvania]

I have to regret that statement, I forget the many perfectly competent communist thinkers out there.

That said the principle here is that if you don't believe people will support each other voluntarily now, it presents an odd case to argue that they would willingly give up their property to do so later.

I am of the same mind regarding charity, to quote Rockefeller, "Charity that does not make the recipient independent of it is squandered.", supporting schools and road building, stuff that will build their economies rather than just throwing money and food at the problems, often making it worse.

people are inherently greedy; socialist indoctrination is the only solution, and the only way to achieve communism

Nonsense. People are inherently human, and that means the potential for a vast variety of behavior, both virtuous and vile.

Reichmarshal Goering and his lesser known brother may have shared the same mother, and thus near identical genetic heritage, but in terms of their behavior, and the legacy they left behind, they couldn't be farther apart.

To speak of humans being inherently anything, devoid of context, is simply untenable.

[Bluth Corporation]

I have to regret that statement, I forget the many perfectly competent communist thinkers out there.

That said the principle here is that if you don't believe people will support each other voluntarily now, it presents an odd case to argue that they would willingly give up their property to do so later.

I am of the same mind regarding charity, to quote Rockefeller, "Charity that does not make the recipient independent of it is squandered.", supporting schools and road building, stuff that will build their economies rather than just throwing money and food at the problems, often making it worse.

people are inherently greedy

A vast body of ethnographic research disagrees with you.

[Four-sided Triangles]

To speak of humans being inherently anything, devoid of context, is simply untenable.

Humans are inherently made of subatomic particles.

[Trotskylvania]

To speak of humans being inherently anything, devoid of context, is simply untenable.

Humans are inherently made of subatomic particles.

Equivocation is exactly the sort of context-destroying act that makes me want to turn this human into quark-gluon soup

[The Merchant Republics]

I have to regret that statement, I forget the many perfectly competent communist thinkers out there.

That said the principle here is that if you don't believe people will support each other voluntarily now, it presents an odd case to argue that they would willingly give up their property to do so later.

I am of the same mind regarding charity, to quote Rockefeller, "Charity that does not make the recipient independent of it is squandered.", supporting schools and road building, stuff that will build their economies rather than just throwing money and food at the problems, often making it worse.

people are inherently greedy; socialist indoctrination is the only solution, and the only way to achieve communism

Even if you were at all correct, how is that a solution, and why is greed a problem in the first place? Greed has done quite a bit for the modern world, why shouldn't people seek mutual advantage and derive benefit from their activity?

[Odins Scandinavia]

people are inherently greedy

A vast body of ethnographic research disagrees with you.

ich think what he means to say is that people instinctively put the needs of themselves over what is good for everyone.

[Odins Scandinavia]

people are inherently greedy; socialist indoctrination is the only solution, and the only way to achieve communism

Even if you were at all correct, how is that a solution, and why is greed a problem in the first place? Greed has done quite a bit for the modern world, why shouldn't people seek mutual advantage and derive benefit from their activity?

1. that is the Marxist theory of history. he is 100% correct.
2. lets see here; 20% of the people hold 80% of the wealth (1% hold 38% or so), a whole continent is starving because of greed, and millions have died in wars. lovely.

[Trotskylvania]

Even if you were at all correct, how is that a solution, and why is greed a problem in the first place? Greed has done quite a bit for the modern world, why shouldn't people seek mutual advantage and derive benefit from their activity?

1. that is the Marxist theory of history. he is 100% correct.
2. lets see here; 5% of the people hold 90% of the wealth, a whole continent is starving because of greed, and millions have died in wars. lovely.

This isn't a condition that can be wished away by being ideologically pure enough, like the Lmaoists believe.

Assuming you're speaking of Africa, you cannot blame all of the present problems of Africa on imperialism. European imperialism was monstrous, but the corrupt statist-nationalist leaders in many African states are the truest example of the greed you are saying is starving a continent.

[Odins Scandinavia]

1. that is the Marxist theory of history. he is 100% correct.
2. lets see here; 5% of the people hold 90% of the wealth, a whole continent is starving because of greed, and millions have died in wars. lovely.

This isn't a condition that can be wished away by being ideologically pure enough, like the Lmaoists believe.

Assuming you're speaking of Africa, you cannot blame all of the present problems of Africa on imperialism. European imperialism was monstrous, but the corrupt statist-nationalist leaders in many African states are the truest example of the greed you are saying is starving a continent.

1. Ideology is the answer to the worlds woe; Communism shall enlighten the masses. for it to work however, socialism will require several generations.

2. greed is greed. i was saying that greed was the cause. you agree with me.

[Trotskylvania]

This isn't a condition that can be wished away by being ideologically pure enough, like the Lmaoists believe.

Assuming you're speaking of Africa, you cannot blame all of the present problems of Africa on imperialism. European imperialism was monstrous, but the corrupt statist-nationalist leaders in many African states are the truest example of the greed you are saying is starving a continent.

1. Ideology is the answer to the worlds woe; Communism shall enlighten the masses. for it to work however, socialism will require several generations.

2. greed is greed. i was saying that greed was the cause. you agree with me.

Ideology is not something that should be exalted. It is, in all times and all places, and enemy of the worker's movement. Ideology is nothing more than the justification for the ruling class and the embodiment of their prides, prejudices and neuroses. To speak of a "communist" ideology is to presuppose a ruling class, and statism. These are precisely the enemies of proletarians everywhere.

Slogans of "enlightening the masses" is just claptrap that has no place in the worker's movement. We educate, agitate and organize for concrete institutions of worker's power. Enlightenment is something you seek on your own, and has no connection to a political movement.

[Odins Scandinavia]

1. Ideology is the answer to the worlds woe; Communism shall enlighten the masses. for it to work however, socialism will require several generations.

2. greed is greed. i was saying that greed was the cause. you agree with me.

Ideology is not something that should be exalted. It is, in all times and all places, and enemy of the worker's movement. Ideology is nothing more than the justification for the ruling class and the embodiment of their prides, prejudices and neuroses. To speak of a "communist" ideology is to presuppose a ruling class, and statism. These are precisely the enemies of proletarians everywhere.

Slogans of "enlightening the masses" is just claptrap that has no place in the worker's movement. We educate, agitate and organize for concrete institutions of worker's power. Enlightenment is something you seek on your own, and has no connection to a political movement.

you see, a communist country is no longer a country. stateless and classless. no state, no ruling class, all equal. "statism" and communism are entirely incompatible. in a way, communism is the most far-right society in existence, as its government is so small it is limited to counting votes (if that even counts; pardon the pun)

Slogans win minds. minds win wars. wars win freedom.

you seek enlightenment, and forcing enlightenment upon the populace is the quickest way to attaining communism.