Pregnant mom arrested for forgetting to pay for sandwich

[Malgrave]

She gets no sympathy from me. She should've paid at the counter and she didn't, so it's her own mistake. You gotta suffer the consequences of your own actions.


If you would've done that, you would've deserved a night or two in jail.

Why? The store does not have the right to detain her.

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[Tekania]

Oh, the lawsuits they'll be able to file... I can list half a dozen off the top of my head.

What lawsuits? Near as I can tell no one actually did anything legally wrong here, except the parents that is.

The state took a child into custody where both parents were being arrested... nothing wrong there.
The store detained someone for a reasonable time with show of probable cause... nothing wrong there.
The store detained someone while awaiting response for the police... nothing wrong there either.

They might be able to get a lawsuit on for the slow response to the police, maybe... that's about it though.

[Tekania]

She gets no sympathy from me. She should've paid at the counter and she didn't, so it's her own mistake. You gotta suffer the consequences of your own actions.


If you would've done that, you would've deserved a night or two in jail.

Why? The store does not have the right to detain her.

No, but they are legally allowed to detain her. Hawaii has what is known as a "Merchants Statute".. which means that if the store has probable cause, and the detention is limited to show of probable cause and detention in wait for the arrival of law enforce; they have an automatic legal defense against lawsuits for unlawful detention.

[Dyakovo]

Why? The store does not have the right to detain her.

No, but they are legally allowed to detain her. Hawaii has what is known as a "Merchants Statute".. which means that if the store has probable cause, and the detention is limited to show of probable cause and detention in wait for the arrival of law enforce; they have an automatic legal defense against lawsuits for unlawful detention.

My point wasn't that the store was wrong for detaining het, just that it wouldn't have been illegal for her to have just left.

[Bottle]

She gets no sympathy from me. She should've paid at the counter and she didn't, so it's her own mistake. You gotta suffer the consequences of your own actions.

I agree, the store should suffer the consequences of this petty, pointless action. And they will, judging from the comments I've seen on this story. Hope that $5 was worth all the lost customers!

Sometimes I really like capitalism.

[Hippostania]

She gets no sympathy from me. She should've paid at the counter and she didn't, so it's her own mistake. You gotta suffer the consequences of your own actions.


If you would've done that, you would've deserved a night or two in jail.

Why? The store does not have the right to detain her.

They should have. And you're supposed to respect the authorities anyway.

[Serrland]

She gets no sympathy from me. She should've paid at the counter and she didn't, so it's her own mistake. You gotta suffer the consequences of your own actions.

I agree, the store should suffer the consequences of this petty, pointless action. And they will, judging from the comments I've seen on this story. Hope that $5 was worth all the lost customers!

Sometimes I really like capitalism.

Sometimes the Free Market Fairy is more like the Free Market Imp.

[Dyakovo]

Why? The store does not have the right to detain her.

They should have. And you're supposed to respect the authorities anyway.

The store is not the authorities.

[Risottia]

But store managers wouldn't allow them to pay for the sandwiches, she said.
"I asked to talk to a manager and he said it was against their policy to pay for items that left the store," she said. "The security guard said we were being charged with shoplifting."

Charging them with shoplifting seems legal - stupid but legal.
On the other hand, WTF? Being blocked in an office against their will for 4 hours looks like abduction to me.

[THE NEW NEWLY UNITED STATES]

I saw somebody eat a bag of chips in wallmart while shopping and got arrested because they thought he was going to put the bag back.

lol fail on both parts

[Tekania]

Why? The store does not have the right to detain her.

They should have. And you're supposed to respect the authorities anyway.

No, they don't have the right, nor should they have said right. However they are allowed to detain, as long as the do not do so through use of physical force

[THE NEW NEWLY UNITED STATES]

I agree, the store should suffer the consequences of this petty, pointless action. And they will, judging from the comments I've seen on this story. Hope that $5 was worth all the lost customers!

Sometimes I really like capitalism.

Sometimes the Free Market Fairy is more like the Free Market Imp.

Then why did capitalism run the USA into the ground then?

[Bottle]

Sometimes the Free Market Fairy is more like the Free Market Imp.

Then why did capitalism run the USA into the ground then?

Because of the "sometimes."

[Unslavery]

Frankly, if you eat food before you have paid for it, you are eating somebody else's property. The store isn't legally obliged to sell you the sandwich you have just eaten, is it? Just because a fair few people do it doesn't mean it's kosher.

[Nadkor]

Frankly, if you eat food before you have paid for it, you are eating somebody else's property. The store isn't legally obliged to sell you the sandwich you have just eaten, is it?

This is a very fair point.

[Tekania]

But store managers wouldn't allow them to pay for the sandwiches, she said.
"I asked to talk to a manager and he said it was against their policy to pay for items that left the store," she said. "The security guard said we were being charged with shoplifting."

Charging them with shoplifting seems legal - stupid but legal.
On the other hand, WTF? Being blocked in an office against their will for 4 hours looks like abduction to me.

No, cops had been called, they are allowed to detain awaiting arrival of police.

[Bottle]

Frankly, if you eat food before you have paid for it, you are eating somebody else's property. The store isn't legally obliged to sell you the sandwich you have just eaten, is it? Just because a fair few people do it doesn't mean it's kosher.

It's true that a store has the right to enforce such a policy. However, where I live, it's just bad business to do that. The stores I shop at are always handing out free samples, and encouraging people to try things before they buy whenever it is possible to do so (obviously they don't want you opening packages of everything, but you can always get a free sample from the deli counter, and Trader Joe's invites people to try a grape!). The store my parents shop at in their town just writes the price on the bag of stuff you get from the bakery counter or deli, so that you can eat whatever you want while you shop and it won't make a difference at the register.

I'm fine with a store choosing to adhere to the letter of the law if that's what they want to do. I'm happy to take my money to one of the better stores.

[Dakini]

I hate when people eat things before they buy them in grocery stores. Especially when they have children with them... it just tells the children that doing illegal things is fine.


...yes, eating something before you pay for it is theft generally.

Also, lots of people are assholes who just abandon half-eaten "snacks" in grocery store aisles.

[Dakini]

Frankly, if you eat food before you have paid for it, you are eating somebody else's property. The store isn't legally obliged to sell you the sandwich you have just eaten, is it? Just because a fair few people do it doesn't mean it's kosher.

It's true that a store has the right to enforce such a policy. However, where I live, it's just bad business to do that. The stores I shop at are always handing out free samples, and encouraging people to try things before they buy whenever it is possible to do so (obviously they don't want you opening packages of everything, but you can always get a free sample from the deli counter, and Trader Joe's invites people to try a grape!). The store my parents shop at in their town just writes the price on the bag of stuff you get from the bakery counter or deli, so that you can eat whatever you want while you shop and it won't make a difference at the register.

I'm fine with a store choosing to adhere to the letter of the law if that's what they want to do. I'm happy to take my money to one of the better stores.

There's nothing illegal about eating free samples. The store is giving you the sample.

Taking food off the shelves and eating it without paying, however, is theft.

[Nadkor]

Frankly, if you eat food before you have paid for it, you are eating somebody else's property. The store isn't legally obliged to sell you the sandwich you have just eaten, is it? Just because a fair few people do it doesn't mean it's kosher.

It's true that a store has the right to enforce such a policy. However, where I live, it's just bad business to do that. The stores I shop at are always handing out free samples, and encouraging people to try things before they buy whenever it is possible to do so (obviously they don't want you opening packages of everything, but you can always get a free sample from the deli counter, and Trader Joe's invites people to try a grape!).

Yeah...people taking up a store's offer of free samples and encouragement of people to try things =/= people taking the store's property without their permission and eating it.

One is the store allowing people to try before they buy, the other is theft.

[Bottle]

I hate when people eat things before they buy them in grocery stores. Especially when they have children with them... it just tells the children that doing illegal things is fine.


...yes, eating something before you pay for it is theft generally.

O.o This seriously must be a cultural thing. Where I grew up, people would absolutely boggle at your assertion that it is "theft" to eat something while still in the store. Because OF COURSE you're going to pay. That's what the child learns; it's perfectly fine to eat a biscuit while Daddy finishes up at the meat counter, because you'll save the bag and pay for it when you get rung up.

I'm actually a bit insulted by the suggestion that I'm prone to doing illegal things because my parents let me snack during grocery shopping. I've never stolen a damn thing from a grocery store in my life, and I'm one of the only people I know who considers it basic good manners to tip clerks who help me carry my groceries to the car.

[Osoaribbean]

Are you that much of a fat bastard that you can't wait 5 minutes to get to the checkout and just have to munch on the chips (ugh) or hot dog right then and there?

No. Truck driver who has is on a schedule and has to have the food finished before I start driving again. Safety first.

[Iron Chariots]

While I do find it a bit grating when people eat before paying in the store, as long as they actually do pay I tend to think "No harm, no foul."

[Bottle]

It's true that a store has the right to enforce such a policy. However, where I live, it's just bad business to do that. The stores I shop at are always handing out free samples, and encouraging people to try things before they buy whenever it is possible to do so (obviously they don't want you opening packages of everything, but you can always get a free sample from the deli counter, and Trader Joe's invites people to try a grape!).

Yeah...people taking up a store's offer of free samples and encouragement of people to try things =/= people taking the store's property without their permission and eating it.

One is the store allowing people to try before they buy, the other is theft.

And, again, there are plenty of stores that don't consider it "taking their property without their permission." It was the norm where I grew up (Minneapolis, MN). Stores ASSUMED people would snack while shopping, and pay before leaving.

Like I've said, if a store doesn't want to have such a policy, that's fine with me. I typically don't snack while shopping, haven't since I was a little kid, so really it wouldn't directly impact me in any case. But I wouldn't choose to shop at a store that opted for the pathetic tactics of the one in this story. Post a sign asking people to not nosh, politely remind anybody who does it and make sure they pay, and only with repeat offenders do you need to get harsh. I'd be fine with that sort of thing. Charging people for shoplifting when they simply forgot to pay, and were more than willing to do so? I'll shop elsewhere, thanks.

[Dakini]

She gets no sympathy from me. She should've paid at the counter and she didn't, so it's her own mistake. You gotta suffer the consequences of your own actions.

I agree, the store should suffer the consequences of this petty, pointless action. And they will, judging from the comments I've seen on this story. Hope that $5 was worth all the lost customers!

Sometimes I really like capitalism.

When I worked at a grocery store, one of my coworkers was fired for making himself a pizza and eating it before paying for it. It was probably less than $5 and the only reason they didn't charge him is because he was under 18.

My sister was fired because in her bakery, it was normal for people to leave samples in the fridge and the employees would munch on them. She ate one while on duty and was canned. Again, the only reason they didn't press charges is because she was a minor.