Engaging in separatist feminism

[The Deleted Chris]

I actually did. History is a favorite subject of mine, and history of blacks in the USA is a significant interest of mine. Thinkers like Frederick Douglass and Richard Allen clearly show that they were perfectly comfortable as Americans, regardless of race - though they certainly condemned the efforts of society at large to deny them their position as Americans due to their race.

Way to drastically oversimplify a much more complicated story with deep tensions you totally ignore.

He who has learnt how to die has learnt not be a slave.

[Holy Marsh]

Every time she discusses men, she says it is a privilege. Every time she discusses women, she mentions obstacles. If I were an alien whose only look into society were her posts, I would expect men to be carted around in golden chariots by their teams of slave women.

That's because apparently we need to hate all men simply for being born the same gender as people who unfortunately mistreated women in the past, et cetera. That's what's funny about this whole charade. The OP and her supporters put themselves up on high horses but end up acting like the people they have so much contempt for - they are as blind as the people they claim are drones of the media who hate women. Yep. I guess when a man takes his wife out to dinner and celebrates her birthday, he doesn't really love her or anything. He's just rewarding her for being an obedient bitch. Oh, and when a male soldier helps a female refugee? That's not humanitarianism. That's just slavery.

Humanity's so fucked up that, at times, it can be truly beautiful.

I expect the OP to return in six months with a new topic about how she believes that all men must be put under collar in order to make sure they don't commit more evil.

[Ashmoria]

Every time she discusses men, she says it is a privilege. Every time she discusses women, she mentions obstacles. If I were an alien whose only look into society were her posts, I would expect men to be carted around in golden chariots by their teams of slave women.

That's because apparently we need to hate all men simply for being born the same gender as people who unfortunately mistreated women in the past, et cetera. That's what's funny about this whole charade. The OP and her supporters put themselves up on high horses but end up acting like the people they have so much contempt for - they are as blind as the people they claim are drones of the media who hate women. Yep. I guess when a man takes his wife out to dinner and celebrates her birthday, he doesn't really love her or anything. He's just rewarding her for being an obedient bitch. Oh, and when a male soldier helps a female refugee? That's not humanitarianism. That's just slavery.

Humanity's so fucked up that, at times, it can be truly beautiful.

wow the idea of feminism and a limited temporary seperatism has pushed you over some edge eh? that had NOTHING to do with the OP and her proposition.

[Motuka]

Anyone who feels they can share this sentiment -- congratulations! You've been privileged by an accident of birth.

People who are widely or primarily defined by their race/gender/social class/etc can't easily say "fuck it, I refuse to buy into this" simply because they have internalised much of what they've been raised with. Hence why the idea of separating themselves from the privileged groups might appeal to them.

If they want to abandon society, let them run like the cowards they are. Let them be forgotten by history while people who try to change society are remembered and praised.

I don't know that anyone's talking about abandoning society, necessarily. Separatism can be a way to change society as well.

There are a few similarities. If it is her, it seems like she's attempting to explore this philosophy on a serious level, though -- it's not exactly HerPower again.

I'd ask but I assume this is another 'you're trolling' thing.

Not exactly -- search the post histories of Neesika and Kiskaanak (or however it's spelled). Short version is: moderate feminist poster, Canadian Aboriginal in origin, with a fondness for raising uncomfortable subjects (sometimes through puppets).

Exactly. You can do a lot of work to overcome external pressures and stereotypes, but the internal work is the hardest.

I know you have me on ignore but perhaps your supporters may answer this-
Why does this internal work require you to exist in a sexist lifestyle for a long period of time?

Separatist philosophy holds that it can help to live among others who won't define you by your sex.

I haven't read any feminist separatist philosophers, nor am I extremely familiar with the belief system. Apparently, however, not finding feminist separatism inherently wrong or mocking it makes me a "supporter." This thread kind of makes me want to join the OP tbh.

Anyone who feels they can share this sentiment -- congratulations! You've been privileged by an accident of birth.

No, I've been privileged with a fucking mind, capable of independent thought, and don't simply cow-tow and find the need to "fit in".

Yes, I'm sure you have no gender-related expectations whatsoever.

[Conserative Morality]

and what does that have to do with the example i posted about?

Put simply, the glorification of Africa and one's "Roots" is purely a modern phenomenon, and every bit a social construct the same way that race and gender roles are social constructs. There is nothing inherent about it, no more than a Christian feeling the need to go to Jerusalem as opposed to one who feels that, as God is everywhere, there is no need to do so, and no benefit from doing so.

[Conserative Morality]

Way to drastically oversimplify a much more complicated story with deep tensions you totally ignore.

"Good job for not writing a six page essay in a thread that doesn't require it!"

[Femnipotent]

Well of course, because my attitude,

Don't go looking for reasons to get offended. I haven't put you on ignore because your posts have been reasonable so far and I believe they can continue to be. Go back to the context. I was mocking men who try to define feminism for women, and comparing it to white people trying to define 'race' for people of colour. You addressed a question to me that made it clear you thought I was saying white people don't get to talk about race, and that I believe racial categories are legitimate. My discussion above was an attempt to clarify exactly what kinds of attitudes I was originally referring and objecting to.

and that of CM is what creates "post racial/racism" attitudes. As long as the lot of you are holding racial/racism attitudes, you're fucking perpetuating the system. The leadership is a product of the populace, you do far more to destroy something by destroying its root system (the attitude which perpetuates it) rather than hacking away at the branches (the symptoms).... I live my life by defending civil rights, whereever they are, not by cow-towing to my own self-interests.

I live and experience life as a woman of colour and if you wish to dismiss my experiences as not real or legitimate then the racism is yours. I am not going to assume you are doing that at this point, because you did not seem that blind to reality.

[Ganos Lao]

That's because apparently we need to hate all men simply for being born the same gender as people who unfortunately mistreated women in the past, et cetera. That's what's funny about this whole charade. The OP and her supporters put themselves up on high horses but end up acting like the people they have so much contempt for - they are as blind as the people they claim are drones of the media who hate women. Yep. I guess when a man takes his wife out to dinner and celebrates her birthday, he doesn't really love her or anything. He's just rewarding her for being an obedient bitch. Oh, and when a male soldier helps a female refugee? That's not humanitarianism. That's just slavery.

Humanity's so fucked up that, at times, it can be truly beautiful.

wow the idea of feminism and a limited temporary seperatism has pushed you over some edge eh? that had NOTHING to do with the OP and her proposition.

Wow the idea that denying yourself contact with all men (even to the point that the OP probably won't go to a male doctor or policeman or what not) could actually be a stupid one has pushed you over some edge, eh?

This isn't feminism. This is just stupidity.

[Alaje]

Let me explain myself and my comment. You sited "have tits and a vagina" are obstacles, I assume you mean the sexual stigmatism attached to them. Yes that is a unique, exclusively female problem, but we men have our own problems that society happily forces upon us as well. Were supposed to be all macho and fuck as many girls as possible, lots and lots of women. If you refuse to fuck a hot chick, you're a fag, if you're a virgin, you're a fag......get where I'm going?

Yup. You're delving into a feminist analysis of the harmful gender roles imposed upon men.

Congratulations!

You're not understanding, you think women are the only ones with problems based on your gender. Like I said any guy that doesn't conform to the Ultra-Macho hypersexually active dude, is seen as effeminate. Then we have the stuff you women want from us, we're supposed to bend over backwards to serve you. If a guy doesn't wanna by you food or some other random object, we're fags. At the drop of a hat women think, "oh I wanna have sex with you", we say "no", your so gay....

[Conserative Morality]

I don't know that anyone's talking about abandoning society, necessarily. Separatism can be a way to change society as well.

Separatism is the creation of a new society, separate from the dominant one, whether they admit it or not. Take the Amish, for example.

[Conserative Morality]

Well of course, because my attitude, and that of CM is what creates "post racial/racism" attitudes.

Oooh, I feel special.

[Femnipotent]

wow the idea of feminism and a limited temporary seperatism has pushed you over some edge eh? that had NOTHING to do with the OP and her proposition.

That was actually pretty funny! Can you understand now why I expected this sort of thing? It isn't my first time around the block And yeah honestly it got almost as bizarre when I went Vegan. My god. I think some of my relatives thought I was out there raping baby goats or something.

[Ganos Lao]

I was mocking men who try to define feminism for women

Yet you avoid the women who have mocked you.

And the men here aren't mocking you because they try to "define" feminism. They are mocking you because your ideas are nothing more than absurdities rooted in sheer ignorance of reality.

You seem to get quite the kick out of demonizing men. Let me ask you a question. Let's say you go through with this. You are dying in a car accident, but can still make out some words and what not after you've been run over and a male attendant comes to you from his ambulance. Do you refuse to deal with him? Let's say your house was broken into. A male policeman comes to you to ask about it. Do you refuse to deal with him?

The fact people support this hokum is why humanity's been held back from advancing. God forbid that men and women work together to deal with society's problems. Nope. Instead, we must fend for ourselves and god help you if you're born with a penis!

[Holy Marsh]

Motuka, the issue I posted in my first post here was that I find this belief that one must be isolated to discover philosophical leanings is both dishonest and weak. We aren't talking about someone who wants to isolate herself completely, just cutting off one set of it- therefore biasing herself tremendously- and putting herself in a scenario to absorb only one set of information.
It is dishonest because she isn't trying to discover her feminism- she is trying to have it molded by influences to her liking.
It is weak because most who come to terms with their philosophical leanings don't need to go to such lengths. That either means mankind is mentally tough as nails, or she is weaker.
It is sexist because, well, it is the very definition of sexist personal action.

[Ashmoria]

and what does that have to do with the example i posted about?

Put simply, the glorification of Africa and one's "Roots" is purely a modern phenomenon, and every bit a social construct the same way that race and gender roles are social constructs. There is nothing inherent about it, no more than a Christian feeling the need to go to Jerusalem as opposed to one who feels that, as God is everywhere, there is no need to do so, and no benefit from doing so.

sigh

there is a benefit to being a black person in a black country if only for a week. to be the rule rather than the exception.

its simply a chance for a different view of yourself without the expectations of youre being different due to being a minority.

thats why your counterexample of a white person going to europe tells me that you didnt spend a moment thinking about it. white people goint to a white country will not have the same experience at all.

[Motuka]

Let me explain myself and my comment. You sited "have tits and a vagina" are obstacles, I assume you mean the sexual stigmatism attached to them. Yes that is a unique, exclusively female problem, but we men have our own problems that society happily forces upon us as well. Were supposed to be all macho and fuck as many girls as possible, lots and lots of women. If you refuse to fuck a hot chick, you're a fag, if you're a virgin, you're a fag......get where I'm going?

Yup. You're delving into a feminist analysis of the harmful gender roles imposed upon men.

Congratulations!

But... gender roles can't harm men. They have privilege! I bet you don't even hate men properly like the rest of us, traitor. |:<

I don't know that anyone's talking about abandoning society, necessarily. Separatism can be a way to change society as well.

Separatism is the creation of a new society, separate from the dominant one, whether they admit it or not. Take the Amish, for example.

At the same time, separatism can influence the wider society despite being, in many ways, a withdrawal from it. Take Thoreau, for example.

[Femnipotent]

Yup. You're delving into a feminist analysis of the harmful gender roles imposed upon men.

Congratulations!

You're not understanding, you think women are the only ones with problems based on your gender.

Ahahahaha....

You're delving into a feminist analysis of the harmful gender roles imposed upon men.

By design or mere lack of ability, your inability to grasp my points and your insistence on making shit up has earned you a quiet spot out of my sight.

[Alaje]

and what does that have to do with the example i posted about?

Put simply, the glorification of Africa and one's "Roots" is purely a modern phenomenon, and every bit a social construct the same way that race and gender roles are social constructs. There is nothing inherent about it, no more than a Christian feeling the need to go to Jerusalem as opposed to one who feels that, as God is everywhere, there is no need to do so, and no benefit from doing so.

I agree with you somewhat, but for Blacks the glorification of our roots is connected to our desire to have control over our identity as a race after having lost our original cultures and having the European ones forced upon us.

[Ashmoria]

Yup. You're delving into a feminist analysis of the harmful gender roles imposed upon men.

Congratulations!

You're not understanding, you think women are the only ones with problems based on your gender. Like I said any guy that doesn't conform to the Ultra-Macho hypersexually active dude, is seen as effeminate. Then we have the stuff you women want from us, we're supposed to bend over backwards to serve you. If a guy doesn't wanna by you food or some other random object, we're fags. At the drop of a hat women think, "oh I wanna have sex with you", we say "no", your so gay....

she was agreeing with you.

[Ganos Lao]

wow the idea of feminism and a limited temporary seperatism has pushed you over some edge eh? that had NOTHING to do with the OP and her proposition.

That was actually pretty funny! Can you understand now why I expected this sort of thing? It isn't my first time around the block And yeah honestly it got almost as bizarre when I went Vegan. My god. I think some of my relatives thought I was out there raping baby goats or something.

Stop acting like a wannabe Thoreau. It's just lamely dishonest.

[Conserative Morality]

I agree with you somewhat, but for Blacks the glorification of our roots is connected to our desire to have control over our identity as a race after having lost our original cultures and having the European ones forced upon us.

But that wouldn't really be solved by just going to Africa, as you'd basically have to go deep into the various countries there to find an African society without heavy Western influences. Furthermore, I view racial identity to be ridiculous on every level. My 'Original culture' isn't that of my parents, or their parents, or their parents. My 'Original culture' is the one I was born in, raised in, and the one that I accept.

[Ganos Lao]

By design or mere lack of ability, your inability to grasp my points and your insistence on making shit up has earned you a quiet spot out of my sight.

Can't handle the competition?

[Conserative Morality]

sigh

there is a benefit to being a black person in a black country if only for a week. to be the rule rather than the exception.

its simply a chance for a different view of yourself without the expectations of youre being different due to being a minority.

thats why your counterexample of a white person going to europe tells me that you didnt spend a moment thinking about it. white people goint to a white country will not have the same experience at all.

There are places in the States where there are more black people than white people, and vice versa to the point of being an overwhelming majority. Geography either does matter, and thus this is an acceptable change for a trip, or it doesn't matter, in which case it doesn't matter where on Earth you go, the proportion of people will be the same.

[Seibertron]

That's because apparently we need to hate all men simply for being born the same gender as people who unfortunately mistreated women in the past, et cetera.

This is like Original Sin, here that men inherit the misdeeds of previous men. But like Original sin it is just absurd.

[Femnipotent]

This is like Original Sin, here that men inherit the misdeeds of previous men. But like Original sin it is just absurd.

And like the bible, completely made up by a bunch of men!

Well done:)