Engaging in separatist feminism

[Tekania]

Anyone who feels they can share this sentiment -- congratulations! You've been privileged by an accident of birth.

No, I've been privileged with a fucking mind, capable of independent thought, and don't simply cow-tow and find the need to "fit in".

[Ashmoria]

GTFO, troll. LOL!!!


In all seriousness though. Femni is making a very good point, their are social constructs engrained in us since birth, The Ideal Man, the Ideal Woman, the Yuppie White dude, the Ignorant Black, the Genius Asian, etc. It does take alot of thinking by yourself to notice it, most of the retards in the masses don't notice and are thus trapped in a cycle of steotypes they are doomed to conform to.

All of this is so very, very true. We are all ingrained from birth with expectations. The issue seems to be is that she seems to believe that being born as a male is more or less a ticket to a perfect, happy life with no problems while being being born female is only slightly better than being born a well-taken care of pet rock, and that instead of taking the time out of her day to give serious thought regarding who she is and what she believes in, she feels the urge to get involved in a very sexist lifestyle in order to isolate herself from society. None of that is healthy, it is all sexist and biased, and it won't help her in the long-term. It seems like a Pre-Grad engaged in philosophy with her friends one night and believes she needs some sort of nirvana without males to unlock her true form.
Like a butterfly.

i dont recall her saying that men have perfect happy lives. maybe you could quote the post you are referring to.

[Holy Marsh]

Excuse me for believing in solidarity and teamwork in rectifying the situation at hand rather than just ditching it and refusing to deal with the cards you were dealt.

Excuse me for doubting the sincerity of people whose notion of "solidarity" appears to be telling other people what to do.

Excuse everyone for saying the same thing again and again.

Seriously though, couldn't I just easily say I doubt that people who need this 'space' aren't racists/sexists plotting some form of RACE OR SEX BASED REVOLUTION ZOMFG?

It makes just as much sense as your belief. We aren't telling people what to do. We're saying it doesn't help put an end to/weaken the great ills of racism and sexism, and to support them as legitimate methods of dealing with a society instead of trying to move forward towards something better is not worthy of much respect. If you're gonna do it, then do it- but it isn't helping solve the issue, and in the long term it just weakens society further.

[Alaje]

I could say the same about having a penis and testicles.

As I would expect you to at this point.

Have we reached the point yet where we are all convinced that men, white men in particular, are the most downtrodden and oppressed group on earth, or are we still building up to it?

Let me explain myself and my comment. You sited "have tits and a vagina" are obstacles, I assume you mean the sexual stigmatism attached to them. Yes that is a unique, exclusively female problem, but we men have our own problems that society happily forces upon us as well. Were supposed to be all macho and fuck as many girls as possible, lots and lots of women. If you refuse to fuck a hot chick, you're a fag, if you're a virgin, you're a fag......get where I'm going?

[Nazis in Space]

Excuse me for believing in solidarity and teamwork in rectifying the situation at hand rather than just ditching it and refusing to deal with the cards you were dealt.

Excuse me for doubting the sincerity of people whose notion of "solidarity" appears to be telling other people what to do.

You'll now have to provide evidence that the people in question, insofar as they've posted in this thread, engage in solidarity solely by way of telling others what to do, rather than actually providing living examples by way of their actual actions, particularly IRL.

Otherwise you're just making up shit about them to suit your rhetoric, really.

[Ganos Lao]

There's a bit of a difference between a 'Safe Space' in the form of a sex/ ethnicity/ whatever-exclusive club that you spend a weekend a month in for giggles with that particular subset of your peer group, and choosing complete isolation for months - or maybe, potentially permanently -, don't you think?

Sure. And people with different needs and different experiences are going to make different choices about how far to go. Unless they involve actually oppressing or harming other people, I don't object to them.

But in the end, people like you are all cowards, so there's really no need to claim you're all different except in how you attain your status as a coward. Is it really that hard for you to put down your radical diatribes, get off your tuckus, and fight for what you believe in? But I suppose it's just easier for you to cower in fear and do nothing at all, so if you want, I can rent you my basement so you never have to see another human being ever again. Hey, if you can't handle certain groups of humans, which you yourself are, a human, you might as well give up on the whole damn world.

Excuse me for believing in solidarity and teamwork in rectifying the situation at hand rather than just ditching it and refusing to deal with the cards you were dealt.

Excuse me for doubting the sincerity of people whose notion of "solidarity" appears to be telling other people what to do.

I'm not telling you to do what to do. I'm merely getting a kick out of watching you try to justify your cowardice. Get a bloody backbone. If you hate what you see in society, do something about it. Look at the Arab Spring. They didn't just sit there on some forum and bitch about things. They got off their asses and did something about it. But whatever makes you feel comfortable, I guess.

[Femnipotent]

Just as thrilled as when white people tell persons of colour how race ought to be defined.

So, someone of a race isn't allowed to tell someone else of a race how to define pretty meaningless and fairly artificial racial constructs?

Except that isn't the discourse, generally. Instead, the above claim is made, while the speaker does absolutely nothing to change existing power structures that create and perpetuate socially constructed racial categories. In fact, the speakers believe all that nasty stuff is in the past and that if you are a person of colour discussing it, you are actually guilty of trying to bring it back. Suddenly during the attempted act of deconstruction, you, the person of colour, has become guilty of the worst kind of racism. You have become responsible for all racism because you just "won't let it go".

"Talk about race and racism as though we're in a post-racial society" is the message that I am responding to here. Just like, "talk about gender as though we're in a post-gendered society".

[Nazis in Space]

I am always thrilled to have men telling women how feminism ought to be defined.

Just as thrilled as when white people tell persons of colour how race ought to be defined.

Ah. Irony lost!

And yet you and yours routinely define anything "white and male" as the fons et origo of everything you despise.

Acceptable targets.

[Holy Marsh]

All of this is so very, very true. We are all ingrained from birth with expectations. The issue seems to be is that she seems to believe that being born as a male is more or less a ticket to a perfect, happy life with no problems while being being born female is only slightly better than being born a well-taken care of pet rock, and that instead of taking the time out of her day to give serious thought regarding who she is and what she believes in, she feels the urge to get involved in a very sexist lifestyle in order to isolate herself from society. None of that is healthy, it is all sexist and biased, and it won't help her in the long-term. It seems like a Pre-Grad engaged in philosophy with her friends one night and believes she needs some sort of nirvana without males to unlock her true form.
Like a butterfly.

i dont recall her saying that men have perfect happy lives. maybe you could quote the post you are referring to.

Every time she discusses men, she says it is a privilege. Every time she discusses women, she mentions obstacles. If I were an alien whose only look into society were her posts, I would expect men to be carted around in golden chariots by their teams of slave women.

[Femnipotent]

[quote="Tekania";p="7463492"]
Amazing work you've done, deconstructing social pressures and norms all by yourself. I'm glad you've been able to so, and have solved the problems the rest of us face on a daily basis. Now if you don't mind?

[Conserative Morality]

you didnt think about that for one moment did you.6

I actually did. History is a favorite subject of mine, and history of blacks in the USA is a significant interest of mine. Thinkers like Frederick Douglass and Richard Allen clearly show that they were perfectly comfortable as Americans, regardless of race - though they certainly condemned the efforts of society at large to deny them their position as Americans due to their race.

[Femnipotent]

Let me explain myself and my comment. You sited "have tits and a vagina" are obstacles, I assume you mean the sexual stigmatism attached to them. Yes that is a unique, exclusively female problem, but we men have our own problems that society happily forces upon us as well. Were supposed to be all macho and fuck as many girls as possible, lots and lots of women. If you refuse to fuck a hot chick, you're a fag, if you're a virgin, you're a fag......get where I'm going?

Yup. You're delving into a feminist analysis of the harmful gender roles imposed upon men.

Congratulations!

[Ganos Lao]

Anyone who feels they can share this sentiment -- congratulations! You've been privileged by an accident of birth.

No, I've been privileged with a fucking mind, capable of independent thought, and don't simply cow-tow and find the need to "fit in".

Wow. I never thought that the myths were true! So your kind does exist!

(Of course, the OP and her supporters will all ciaim that everyone else other then them are utter sheeple incapable of independent thought. Sounds like I'm reading a Youtube video's comment section rather than NSG.)

[Nazis in Space]

i dont recall her saying that men have perfect happy lives. maybe you could quote the post you are referring to.

Every time she discusses men, she says it is a privilege. Every time she discusses women, she mentions obstacles. If I were an alien whose only look into society were her posts, I would expect men to be carted around in golden chariots by their teams of slave women.

Beat you to it.

Well. After a fashion.

[Ashmoria]

Excuse me for doubting the sincerity of people whose notion of "solidarity" appears to be telling other people what to do.

Excuse everyone for saying the same thing again and again.

Seriously though, couldn't I just easily say I doubt that people who need this 'space' aren't racists/sexists plotting some form of RACE OR SEX BASED REVOLUTION ZOMFG?

It makes just as much sense as your belief. We aren't telling people what to do. We're saying it doesn't help put an end to/weaken the great ills of racism and sexism, and to support them as legitimate methods of dealing with a society instead of trying to move forward towards something better is not worthy of much respect. If you're gonna do it, then do it- but it isn't helping solve the issue, and in the long term it just weakens society further.

are you still talking about the OP?

[Nazis in Space]

No, I've been privileged with a fucking mind, capable of independent thought, and don't simply cow-tow and find the need to "fit in".

Wow. I never thought that the myths were true! So your kind does exist!

(Of course, the OP and her supporters will all ciaim that everyone else other then them are utter sheeple incapable of independent thought. Sounds like I'm reading a Youtube video's comment section rather than NSG.)

Honestly, I don't think there's a statistically significant difference between youtube comments and NSG.

[Soheran]

Seriously though, couldn't I just easily say I doubt that people who need this 'space' aren't racists/sexists plotting some form of RACE OR SEX BASED REVOLUTION ZOMFG?

Yes, you could. It wouldn't be a very smart thing to say, but you could say it.

It makes just as much sense as your belief. We aren't telling people what to do. We're saying it doesn't help put an end to/weaken the great ills of racism and sexism, and to support them as legitimate methods of dealing with a society instead of trying to move forward towards something better is not worthy of much respect. If you're gonna do it, then do it- but it isn't helping solve the issue, and in the long term it just weakens society further.

There is a tactical argument to be had here about separatism broadly (though one that has next to nothing to do with safe spaces, which as a simple matter of fact don't prevent broad engagement.) It is not an argument that involves accusations of bigotry or discrimination. And it is not an argument in which privileged people who want in should participate. It's not about their feelings.

[Ashmoria]

i dont recall her saying that men have perfect happy lives. maybe you could quote the post you are referring to.

Every time she discusses men, she says it is a privilege. Every time she discusses women, she mentions obstacles. If I were an alien whose only look into society were her posts, I would expect men to be carted around in golden chariots by their teams of slave women.

uhhuh.

[Ashmoria]

you didnt think about that for one moment did you.6

I actually did. History is a favorite subject of mine, and history of blacks in the USA is a significant interest of mine. Thinkers like Frederick Douglass and Richard Allen clearly show that they were perfectly comfortable as Americans, regardless of race - though they certainly condemned the efforts of society at large to deny them their position as Americans due to their race.

and what does that have to do with the example i posted about?

[Femnipotent]

uhhuh.

Whaddayamean mean are privileged!? I don't even have beer money and where the fuck is my sammich anyway?

[Ganos Lao]

i dont recall her saying that men have perfect happy lives. maybe you could quote the post you are referring to.

Every time she discusses men, she says it is a privilege. Every time she discusses women, she mentions obstacles. If I were an alien whose only look into society were her posts, I would expect men to be carted around in golden chariots by their teams of slave women.

That's because apparently we need to hate all men simply for being born the same gender as people who unfortunately mistreated women in the past, et cetera. That's what's funny about this whole charade. The OP and her supporters put themselves up on high horses but end up acting like the people they have so much contempt for - they are as blind as the people they claim are drones of the media who hate women. Yep. I guess when a man takes his wife out to dinner and celebrates her birthday, he doesn't really love her or anything. He's just rewarding her for being an obedient bitch. Oh, and when a male soldier helps a female refugee? That's not humanitarianism. That's just slavery.

Humanity's so fucked up that, at times, it can be truly beautiful.

[Tekania]

So, someone of a race isn't allowed to tell someone else of a race how to define pretty meaningless and fairly artificial racial constructs?

Except that isn't the discourse, generally. Instead, the above claim is made, while the speaker does absolutely nothing to change existing power structures that create and perpetuate socially constructed racial categories. In fact, the speakers believe all that nasty stuff is in the past and that if you are a person of colour discussing it, you are actually guilty of trying to bring it back. Suddenly during the attempted act of deconstruction, you, the person of colour, has become guilty of the worst kind of racism. You have become responsible for all racism because you just "won't let it go".

"Talk about race and racism as though we're in a post-racial society" is the message that I am responding to here. Just like, "talk about gender as though we're in a post-gendered society".

Well of course, because my attitude, and that of CM is what creates "post racial/racism" attitudes. As long as the lot of you are holding racial/racism attitudes, you're fucking perpetuating the system. The leadership is a product of the populace, you do far more to destroy something by destroying its root system (the attitude which perpetuates it) rather than hacking away at the branches (the symptoms).... I live my life by defending civil rights, whereever they are, not by cow-towing to my own self-interests.

[Holy Marsh]

Seriously though, couldn't I just easily say I doubt that people who need this 'space' aren't racists/sexists plotting some form of RACE OR SEX BASED REVOLUTION ZOMFG?

Yes, you could. It wouldn't be a very smart thing to say, but you could say it.

It makes just as much sense as your belief. We aren't telling people what to do. We're saying it doesn't help put an end to/weaken the great ills of racism and sexism, and to support them as legitimate methods of dealing with a society instead of trying to move forward towards something better is not worthy of much respect. If you're gonna do it, then do it- but it isn't helping solve the issue, and in the long term it just weakens society further.

There is a tactical argument to be had here about separatism broadly (though one that has next to nothing to do with safe spaces, which as a simple matter of fact don't prevent broad engagement.) It is not an argument that involves accusations of bigotry or discrimination. And it is not an argument in which privileged people who want in should participate. It's not about their feelings.

It doesn't matter if the debate is not for the 'privileged' or for their feelings or not. It is racist or sexist, regardless of reasoning, what you support. If you don't care, then go for it- but don't expect it to not be labeled, correctly, as racist or sexist.

[Soheran]

I actually did. History is a favorite subject of mine, and history of blacks in the USA is a significant interest of mine. Thinkers like Frederick Douglass and Richard Allen clearly show that they were perfectly comfortable as Americans, regardless of race - though they certainly condemned the efforts of society at large to deny them their position as Americans due to their race.

Way to drastically oversimplify a much more complicated story with deep tensions you totally ignore.

[Ganos Lao]

Wow. I never thought that the myths were true! So your kind does exist!

(Of course, the OP and her supporters will all ciaim that everyone else other then them are utter sheeple incapable of independent thought. Sounds like I'm reading a Youtube video's comment section rather than NSG.)

Honestly, I don't think there's a statistically significant difference between youtube comments and NSG.

It's why I've avoided NSG all this time, really. If I wanted bullshit arguments made by wannabe philosophers and armchair revolutionaries, I'd go on news videos on YT and read the comments on those.

I'm not saying all of NSG is like that, but you know what I mean, I'm sure.