Gay Marriage

[Lowtovia]

There have been years and years of research into the institution in multiple fields.

The consensus is that marriage isn't inherently paternalistic. It is a structure within which pieces are fit into (the spouses). It is only the society and the spouses that make it unequal.

I would be thrilled to see such definitive research explaining how and exactly when marriage ceased to be a social and legal institution based on gender roles and male power over women. I would also be thrilled to see how this research shows that gay marriage has escaped the trappings of such gendered heteronormativity, paving the way for opposite sex couples to finally find true gender equality within their state-sanctioned marriages. I await this wonderful information with baited breath.
^thats a quote by femnipotent but technology hates me

I may be wrong (though in someones belief they can never be wrong) but i always thought that if anything, the simply fact that, traditionally, the man has to ask the woman, this would empower the woman instantly as opposed to giving the man power over the woman, other than the woman feeling a tad guilty is she says no.

Overall though i do think theres no need for marriage of any sort, it just binds people to each other.

[Lowtovia]

Fine. What are you doing to make that happen?

- I have gender neutral wallpaper.

Umm...gender neutral wallpaper? a bit OTT, nothing wrong with a bit o' pink wallpaper (or however you define gender...not neutral(?) wallpaper.)

[Lowtovia]

also to answer the actual question, as long as marriage exists yay to gay marriage.

[Farnhamia]

Fine. What are you doing to make that happen?

- I am not supporting the institution of marriage, by not participating in it. \

- I have involved myself in the legal debate and advocacy related to the current Supreme Court deliberations regarding Quebec's system of 'conjoint de fait', supporting the Attorney General of Quebec's argument that such a relationship is a conscious choice and should not be overriden by turning romantic relationships into common-law marriage (as practiced in other provinces) wherein legal obligations are imposed upon couples who have lived together for a certain period of time regardless of the fact that they deliberately did not get married.

- I engage in a variety of educational and political actions related to gender equity, as well as doing my best to resist the imposition of gender roles on myself.

- I have gender neutral wallpaper. Should I keep rattling off all the things I do so that you will refrain from yapping to me about how I should shut up and act?

The only thing worse than an armchair activist, are those who engage in armchair policing of activists, decreeing when you have acquired enough 'legitimacy' to have a fucking internet conversation on a subject.

Good for you. I await the results of your efforts.

As for "yapping," sister, that's more appropriate a description of your tone through this thread than it is of my asking you once what you're doing (or did I ask more than once, I'm old and forgetful?). You might find yourself taken more seriously if you were to moderate the hectoring and just actually talk civilly about the subject.

[Deus Malum]

- I am not supporting the institution of marriage, by not participating in it. \

- I have involved myself in the legal debate and advocacy related to the current Supreme Court deliberations regarding Quebec's system of 'conjoint de fait', supporting the Attorney General of Quebec's argument that such a relationship is a conscious choice and should not be overriden by turning romantic relationships into common-law marriage (as practiced in other provinces) wherein legal obligations are imposed upon couples who have lived together for a certain period of time regardless of the fact that they deliberately did not get married.

- I engage in a variety of educational and political actions related to gender equity, as well as doing my best to resist the imposition of gender roles on myself.

- I have gender neutral wallpaper. Should I keep rattling off all the things I do so that you will refrain from yapping to me about how I should shut up and act?

The only thing worse than an armchair activist, are those who engage in armchair policing of activists, decreeing when you have acquired enough 'legitimacy' to have a fucking internet conversation on a subject.

Good for you. I await the results of your efforts.

As for "yapping," sister, that's more appropriate a description of your tone through this thread than it is of my asking you once what you're doing (or did I ask more than once, I'm old and forgetful?). You might find yourself taken more seriously if you were to moderate the hectoring and just actually talk civilly about the subject.

Ah, but that would be giving in to the male-dominant subculture of NSG. Or something.

[Femnipotent]

- I have gender neutral wallpaper.

Umm...gender neutral wallpaper? a bit OTT, nothing wrong with a bit o' pink wallpaper (or however you define gender...not neutral(?) wallpaper.)

Tongue in cheek.

[Lowtovia]

Actually, due to a ruling declaring marriage a fundamental right of man, and due to the inherent sexism of only allowing heterosexual marriages, it is against the Constitution of the United States to disallow homosexual marriages.

Well, I've never seen the ruling about marriage being a fundamental right, but I did use the Pursuit of Happiness section and the 9th Amendment to argue that continuing the ban on same-sex marriage was discriminatory.

They have all the rights guaranteed to them in the constitution. There is no other truth about that. They don't get to rewrite reality or twist the facts about whom marriage was intended to exist for.

I also don't give a shit about how the bible can be/was/will be interpreted, or whatever an activist judge, one of whom was himself gay, ruled on gay marriage. That's irrelevant to me. Natural law doesn't support their assertions and that's good enough.

Homosexuals are not worth this much attention and consideration. Even if they get all rights to marry in all states, and are allowed to adopt any unsuspecting kid they please; they will still find something else to bitch about because they aren't getting their 'due' somehow.The more they get the bigger the demands will be. If heteros finally ignore them, again, they''ll work up some excuse to regain the spotlight. They want privilege like most minorities.

You don't deserve it.

We only want equality. And what's wrong with minorities having the same rights as the majority?

Indeed, I don't like government meddling in religious morality.... And want to keep it that way. I like my Church and my State completely separate.

Guy 1: "He got chocolate my church in my peanut butter state..."
Guy 2: "He got peanut butter my state in my chocolate church..."

I'm actually a believer of Christ. Which is why I don't advocate not feeding people, shooting people just because they are stealing, support aid and assistance to the poor, give ex-felons a hand-up, and fight against people attempting to use government to enforce religion... Or in short, the opposite of what all the things that many US Anti-Christ Worshippers who attempt to pass themselves off as Christian do.

More Christians (myself included) need to be more like you.

no goddamned way those faggots can be married WP

Why shouldn't we have the same right to be happy that you do?

It is sadly also often very, very true. The average Catholic priest for instance has no idea whatsoever what the official stance of the Vatican on many issues actually is. The average Christian has no idea whatsoever with the historical context of Scripture was. In fact, it is surprising how many Christians genuinely do not realise that the Bible they have is a) a translation and b) composed of a selection of loosely connected material with many omissions.

Hence why I only take the words of Christ seriously.

Same-sex marriage? No, no, no, no, no, hell no, just no. Its against Christianity and I am a Christian.

Ah. Yes. In the Book of Bullshit, chapter 4 verse 2, Jesus said,"Thou shalt not be gay, because I don't liketh teh buttsecks."

Seriously. I'm a bisexual christian, and I honestly have not seen a single sentence where Jesus condemned homosexuality.

just the way i was raised.

So? I'm living with family members who are absolutely convinced that I'm a total asshole because they've pretty much raised me with the frame of mind that I have no rights, and I refuse to acknowledge that. Just because you are raised to believe something doesn't mean you should stick to it. Do you still believe in Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny?

well you got me their.....well they can be gay just not the marriage part it cant happen...i dont want my kidds to grow up thinking that gay is okay and that sining is okay

Then I direct you to this quote from the Man himself. "Let He who is without sin cast the first stone."

Seriously, what's wrong with being gay and married to one's partner?

the point being is that they can be homo but not while i am around they should do it in the privacy of their own homes.

By the same token, you can be homophobic, but only in your own home.

its cuz i edited and deleted it so i wouldent get booted of the fourum but since im at it i think gay mirage is immoral and in the bible it is wrong i think it should be adamn and eve not adamn and Steve.

Gay mirage? I didn't know that homosexuality was an optical illusion...

Nay, as Leviticus says: It is an abomination. I like that word, describes it well. Gay marriage is an abomination. Done. :clap :clap :clap :clap :clap

Ah yes, because Leviticus has been relevant to Christianity since the resurrection of Christ.

And I'm a total abomination for having been born with an attraction to both sexes. Glad to know I didn't have a choice in the matter.

The solution to "gay marriage" is to pass the Federal Marriage Amendment and to strengthen the Defense of Marriage Act.

1.I sincerely do agree that homosexuality is a sin and a choice. Marriage should remain one man, one woman only, but does it affect the "LGBT community"?

2.Will the homosexual agenda scream for "civil rights" and "equality" if the 9,000+ year-old societal institution of traditional one man-one woman marriage is protected and strictly enforced? I don't really think so.

1.So...remind me again why somebody would choose to be gay, bi, or trans, considering the amount of hatred we get from people like you?

2. Yes, we will actually. Just like the African Americans did during the Civil Rights Movement (I wonder how you feel about that subject, actually). You can knock us down, but we'll just get back up again and continue fighting for our rights. We're not trying to make everyone gay or bi or have a sex change. All we want is acceptance and tolerance and to not be judged for simply being who we are. If you don't like it, then may I suggest that you move to Iran, where over 4000 homosexuals have been killed by the government since 1979, though you might hate it there as well, as the Iranian government is one of the most pro-transsexual governments in the world, and even has programs to pay for up to half the cost of the sex change operation. See that? You're being more intolerant/homophobic than Iran.

NOW that's saying something.

to all that i have a nice easy one word reply: LAAAAAADDDDD

[Farnhamia]

Good for you. I await the results of your efforts.

As for "yapping," sister, that's more appropriate a description of your tone through this thread than it is of my asking you once what you're doing (or did I ask more than once, I'm old and forgetful?). You might find yourself taken more seriously if you were to moderate the hectoring and just actually talk civilly about the subject.

Ah, but that would be giving in to the male-dominant subculture of NSG. Or something.

Given my experience of the males on NSG, they wouldn't know what to do with a woman if she gave into them.

[Lowtovia]

YES ICELAND!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... lised.html

For those of you who are too lazy to press the link (yes you) it basically is about Icelands Prime Minister legalizing gay marriage and then marrying her female partner.

[Femnipotent]

Good for you. I await the results of your efforts.

As for "yapping," sister, that's more appropriate a description of your tone through this thread than it is of my asking you once what you're doing (or did I ask more than once, I'm old and forgetful?). You might find yourself taken more seriously if you were to moderate the hectoring and just actually talk civilly about the subject.

Ah yes, nothing hectoring or aggressive about your tone. You have been quite civil, demanding to know what I am doing about the issues I've raised without actually addressing any of the points I've brought up. Incredibly gentille of you. I shall strive to adopt a less hectoring tone from now on, and instead merely berate people for not doing enough, while telling them how to speak so that they can avoid me lecturing them further on their tone. Your help is so much appreciated. It is really important to me that I be branded a moderate so that I can be taken seriously by people like you who do not at all engage in a ridiculous level of hypocrisy.

[Farnhamia]

Good for you. I await the results of your efforts.

As for "yapping," sister, that's more appropriate a description of your tone through this thread than it is of my asking you once what you're doing (or did I ask more than once, I'm old and forgetful?). You might find yourself taken more seriously if you were to moderate the hectoring and just actually talk civilly about the subject.

Ah yes, nothing hectoring or aggressive about your tone. You have been quite civil, demanding to know what I am doing about the issues I've raised without actually addressing any of the points I've brought up. Incredibly gentille of you. I shall strive to adopt a less hectoring tone from now on, and instead merely berate people for not doing enough, while telling them how to speak so that they can avoid me lecturing them further on their tone. Your help is so much appreciated. It is really important to me that I be branded a moderate so that I can be taken seriously by people like you who do not at all engage in a ridiculous level of hypocrisy.

You assume I disagree with your points. I don't, necessarily, though I think the prospects of getting the state out of marriage are very slender.

[Femnipotent]

You assume I disagree with your points. I don't, necessarily, though I think the prospects of getting the state out of marriage are very slender.

You assume I have made any such assumption when I have been objecting to you using a hectoring tone with me while you attempt to school me on more appropriate ways of communicating. Whether you agree with me or not is irrelevant to the behaviour I have responded to.

[Dyakovo]

You assume I disagree with your points. I don't, necessarily, though I think the prospects of getting the state out of marriage are very slender.

You assume I have made any such assumption when I have been objecting to you using a hectoring tone with me while you attempt to school me on more appropriate ways of communicating. Whether you agree with me or not is irrelevant to the behaviour I have responded to.

We get it... You think you're the only one allowed to act that way.

[Lowtovia]

You assume I have made any such assumption when I have been objecting to you using a hectoring tone with me while you attempt to school me on more appropriate ways of communicating. Whether you agree with me or not is irrelevant to the behaviour I have responded to.

We get it... You think you're the only one allowed to act that way.

are all your 26k posts like this? just irrelevant and stating your opinion without justification or expanding on your point?

[Farnhamia]

We get it... You think you're the only one allowed to act that way.

are all your 26k posts like this? just irrelevant and stating your opinion without justification or expanding on your point?

How is that irrelevant? Femnipotent seems to feel that I bullied her by pointing out her bullying tone.

[Dyakovo]

We get it... You think you're the only one allowed to act that way.

are all your 26k posts like this? just irrelevant and stating your opinion without justification or expanding on your point?

Are all 17 of your posts nonsensical?

[Lowtovia]

are all your 26k posts like this? just irrelevant and stating your opinion without justification or expanding on your point?

How is that irrelevant? Femnipotent seems to feel that I bullied her by pointing out her bullying tone.

she was stating her opinions about the issue/a slight tangent to the issue (admittedly strongly, but she was taking other peoples arguements against her and responding in a well mannered and intelligent way), whereas you just had a go at how she asserted herself. thats the difference

[Dyakovo]

How is that irrelevant? Femnipotent seems to feel that I bullied her by pointing out her bullying tone.

she was stating her opinions about the issue/a slight tangent to the issue (admittedly strongly, but she was taking other peoples arguements against her and responding in a well mannered and intelligent way), whereas you just had a go at how she asserted herself. thats the difference

So your complaint about my post is that you agree with Femni that she's the only one allowed to take a bullying tone... Got it.

[Farnhamia]

How is that irrelevant? Femnipotent seems to feel that I bullied her by pointing out her bullying tone.

she was stating her opinions about the issue/a slight tangent to the issue (admittedly strongly, but she was taking other peoples arguements against her and responding in a well mannered and intelligent way), whereas you just had a go at how she asserted herself. thats the difference

I think her tone is unnecessarily belligerent. As I told her, I don't disagree with what she said, just the way she says it. That's a legitimate criticism, don't you think?

[Dyakovo]

she was stating her opinions about the issue/a slight tangent to the issue (admittedly strongly, but she was taking other peoples arguements against her and responding in a well mannered and intelligent way), whereas you just had a go at how she asserted herself. thats the difference

I think her tone is unnecessarily belligerent. As I told her, I don't disagree with what she said, just the way she says it. That's a legitimate criticism, don't you think?

Apparently not...
Apparently if you agree with her at all (or apparently even if you don't) you have to agree with not only everything she says, but also how she says it....
*nods*

[Lowtovia]

she was stating her opinions about the issue/a slight tangent to the issue (admittedly strongly, but she was taking other peoples arguements against her and responding in a well mannered and intelligent way), whereas you just had a go at how she asserted herself. thats the difference

So your complaint about my post is that you agree with Femni that she's the only one allowed to take a bullying tone... Got it.

umm...yes thats exactly what i said...
what it actually says is that shes assertive (one could say bullying) on the issue, not on how other people talk.

[Omega Centauri]

I heard someone say on here that the bible doesn't say anything about homosexuality?

Leviticus 18:22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination.

Leviticus 20:13 If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination.

Romans 1:24 ...dishonor their bodies...

Romans 1:25 ...exchanged the truth of God for the lie...

Romans 1:26-27 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.

1Corinthians 6:9-10 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

[Legionium]

Yay. If two people feel happy together, they should be allowed to, regardless of who they are. It's quite simple, really: if you don't like a TV show you change the channel. If you don't like two men/women holding hands with their wedding rings on, just look at something else...

I respect people who disagree with gay marriage for any constructive reason (like my best friend), but when I hear bullshit like "God doesn't want it to happen" or "it's indecent" I go absolutely nuts.

[Lowtovia]

she was stating her opinions about the issue/a slight tangent to the issue (admittedly strongly, but she was taking other peoples arguements against her and responding in a well mannered and intelligent way), whereas you just had a go at how she asserted herself. thats the difference

I think her tone is unnecessarily belligerent. As I told her, I don't disagree with what she said, just the way she says it. That's a legitimate criticism, don't you think?

if its as advice on how best to get her point across to the masses, fair enough.

[Dyakovo]

I heard someone say on here that the bible doesn't say anything about homosexuality?

No, you heard someone say on here that the bible says nothing about gay marriage. Which it doesn't.