Capitalism vs Science

[Archnar]

According to the media capitalism is the driving force behind Scientific Innovations.
Lets test that theory.

Automotive Innovation
-in 1990 California passed the zero emmissions vehical mandate which forced car companies to sell Electric cars at a rate of 10% of cars sold per year by 2030.The car companies followed this law and made the GM EV1, the Toyota Rav4 EV, the Honda EV plus, the Ford ranger EV.They also made home and public chargers.This law was later overturned in 2003 and the car companies discontinued there electric cars.
-GM also conspired to kill the electric trolly system for more info. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFhsrbtQObI

Idieas
-Large corperations buy up patents that can threaten there buisness.This was done with the NiMH batteries used in the Rav4 EV.
Chevron/Texico bought the patents and will not allow them to be used for electric cars.

Aviation
-Without the government the concorde would never have flown and the public would never have been able to experience supersonic flight.

Internet
-Without sputnik the worlds first satellite (made by the soviet Union) the Internet wouldn't exist
-The Government landed on the moon,not a corperation but governemt.
-The Government sent probes to all the planets in our solar system

Electricity
-Without government subsidies Solar and Wind power could never compete with fossil fuels.

Research and development
-31% to 60% of Science funding comes from Governments
-All human Space-Stations and orbital research labs have been funded by governments

[Conserative Morality]

What it this I don't even

Government and Capitalism both play a large part in scientific innovation. Why is there a problem here?

[The Black Forrest]

A link would be good.

Capitalism can drive science. Capitalism can wreck science.

To suggest science exists because of capitalism? No.

[Latin Hispania]

Internet
-Without sputnik the worlds first satellite (made by the soviet Union) the Internet wouldn't exist

Sorry to kill your buzz, but I am pretty sure that the Soviet Union was socialist/communist, not capitalist.

[Ceannairceach]

Internet
-Without sputnik the worlds first satellite (made by the soviet Union) the Internet wouldn't exist

Sorry to kill your buzz, but I am pretty sure that the Soviet Union was socialist/communist, not capitalist.

I believe that's his point.

[Threlizdun]

Many of these inventions were heavily influenced by greed. To state that greed is not a successful motive is foolish, even though I would agree that I personally find it unethical.

[Siorafrica]

Sorry to kill your buzz, but I am pretty sure that the Soviet Union was socialist/communist, not capitalist.

Right. A butchered form of communism though. Soviet Winter PALACE, no dictatorship of the proletariat, they had plenty of time to move on from the autocracy phase.

[Ceannairceach]

Sorry to kill your buzz, but I am pretty sure that the Soviet Union was socialist/communist, not capitalist.

Right. A butchered form of communism though. Soviet Winter PALACE, no dictatorship of the proletariat, they had plenty of time to move on from the autocracy phase.

I hardly see how the word "palace", in reference to the type of building it was, has anything to do with how communist the Soviet Union was...

[Ebanteos]

Internet
-Without sputnik the worlds first satellite (made by the soviet Union) the Internet wouldn't exist

Sorry to kill your buzz, but I am pretty sure that the Soviet Union was socialist/communist, not capitalist.

The Soviet Union was actually state capitalist. It was not socialist, communist, or capitalist.

[The USOT]

Imo Leon Trotsky had it bang on when he said "War is the locomotive of change". Simply replace the conventional stance on war to the more modern usage in terms of conflict and you have a pretty sound basing.

Man needed weapon, man invents spear
Man needs more effective cavalry, invents stirrup
Man needs to crack enigma and fisch codes, man invents computer

In short, regardless of your economic system, technology is created through innovative individuals able to analyse a flaw in our lives and a dream to correct it. A little bit of our evolutionary history into a modern context.

[Red Indus2]

Sorry to kill your buzz, but I am pretty sure that the Soviet Union was socialist/communist, not capitalist.

The Soviet Union was a particularly capitalist state because it had to capitalize by itself and induct those capable of doing so into its apparatus, rather then leave the capitalists to run the economy.

[Neu Leonstein]

Imagine you start with a blank sheet of paper. If you build an eletric car, you get $1,000,000.

But first you have to come up with an idea for a technology, make sure the theory checks out, etc etc. So the probability of you being able to do all of this successfully and end up with an electric car for sale is only 5%. You also need to be fed, supplied with computers, etc during that time. So it might cost $50,000 to do that.

So the value of your project right now is (5% * $1,000,000) - $50,000 = $0.

But imagine you've been working for a while, and you know how the theory works, and you've done some lab tests with materials and you're now pretty sure it'll work. So you have a 50% chance of selling a finished electric car. The expected gain is now $500,000. It could be significantly more expensive to feed you and it would still earn money!

That's the way it works a lot of the time. Government subsidises the early stages of research, and the development of new theories. Businesses wouldn't do so because it is not worth it a lot of the time.

But once something has been established to work, businesses will jump in and try and make money by finalising research and getting it to the stage where we can actually find it at the shops.

[New Korongo]

How is one supposed to develop advanced technologies without financial backing?

[Keronians]

The private sector invests, and from there, money to carry out research comes from.

The government does the same.

Both invest because the research in question is viewed as profitable, or beneficial to the country.

[Zeppy]

Science existed before capitalism and it will exist throughout it.

[Tatec]

The private sector invests, and from there, money to carry out research comes from.

The government does the same.

Both invest because the research in question is viewed as profitable, or beneficial to the country.

This.

[Norstal]

Automotive Innovation
-in 1990 California passed the zero emmissions vehical mandate which forced car companies to sell Electric cars at a rate of 10% of cars sold per year by 2030.The car companies followed this law and made the GM EV1, the Toyota Rav4 EV, the Honda EV plus, the Ford ranger EV.They also made home and public chargers.This law was later overturned in 2003 and the car companies discontinued there electric cars.
-GM also conspired to kill the electric trolly system for more info. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFhsrbtQObI

I like how you ignored the types of cars found in communist countries.

But anyways, that's not how science works.

[Red Indus2]

The private sector invests, and from there, money to carry out research comes from.

The government does the same.

Both invest because the research in question is viewed as profitable, or beneficial to the country.

You are wise Keronian... I thought they were investing because it was fun. Don't you want to invest in research? Everyone is doing it!

[Norstal]

The private sector invests, and from there, money to carry out research comes from.

The government does the same.

Both invest because the research in question is viewed as profitable, or beneficial to the country.

You are wise Keronian... I thought they were investing because it was fun. Don't you want to invest in research? Everyone is doing it!

The investors are doing it because it's profitable/beneficial.

The scientists are doing it because it's fun.

[California Bay Area]

Capitalism can drive innovation but only when it's profitable.
Governments drive innovation when it's not profitable

[Bluth Corporation]

Sorry to kill your buzz, but I am pretty sure that the Soviet Union was socialist/communist, not capitalist.

The Soviet Union was a particularly capitalist state because it had to capitalize by itself and induct those capable of doing so into its apparatus, rather then leave the capitalists to run the economy.

I agree, the Soviet Union epitomized capitalism.

I mean, USSR? What's more capitalist than that? Four capitals, all in a row!

[Keronians]

Capitalism can drive innovation but only when it's profitable.
Governments drive innovation when it's not profitable

They won't if they don't see it as beneficial.

[Norstal]

The Soviet Union was a particularly capitalist state because it had to capitalize by itself and induct those capable of doing so into its apparatus, rather then leave the capitalists to run the economy.

I agree, the Soviet Union epitomized capitalism.

I mean, USSR? What's more capitalist than that? Four capitals, all in a row!

Oh man. USA is only 3 capital letters.

[Zeppy]

The investors are doing it because it's profitable/beneficial.

The scientists are doing it because it's fun.

Fun and profitable/beneficial..

I never heard of a dirt poor scientist.

[California Bay Area]

Capitalism can drive innovation but only when it's profitable.
Governments drive innovation when it's not profitable

They won't if they don't see it as beneficial.

Depends on your definition of beneficial. Kennedy wanted to send a man to the moon just to take the lead from the soviets that's it. But is that really beneficial?