Why would god hate an athiest?

[Sanguinthium]

the Norse, being highly agrarian, therefore prove that farmers are taller than hunter gatherers. which contradicts your own point that you put forth to begin with. try again.

I'm not arguing this for the modern age. I'm arguing this for the biblical and ancient age, where agrarians would not have had the same nutrition a hunter gatherer would have had.

unfortunately, in the ancient age, agrarian societies still had better nutrition, having a food surplus as evidence of this.

Unlike - say - Farnhamia, the Alma Mater, Dyakovo, or numerous others who have disagreed with Christianity in this thread

*bows*

D: i dont get a mention??!?!!1

forever alone...

[Sanguinthium]

However, regarding the poems, find me a Church document that says the poems are Dogma, then we can talk. The church also has a positive position on The Simpsons, but that doesn't make it Dogma.

you have got to be shitting me. the church approves of the simpsons?

i seem to have been mistaken on dante. i just remember reading something about that, but cant for the life of me remember where.

my brain is a troll. it insists it forgot something, but wont tell me what...

[Divine Unity]

However, regarding the poems, find me a Church document that says the poems are Dogma, then we can talk. The church also has a positive position on The Simpsons, but that doesn't make it Dogma.

you have got to be shitting me. the church approves of the simpsons?

i seem to have been mistaken on dante. i just remember reading something about that, but cant for the life of me remember where.

my brain is a troll. it insists it forgot something, but wont tell me what...

We've all been there.

[Sanguinthium]

1. 1277 was not the 14th century.
2. Fillippo said that dante was divinely inspired, as did Dante (a devote catholic), claiming the texts as him writing down a prophetic vision. i remember reading that the church had a positive position on the poems.

1. The Divine Comedy was wrote between 1308 and 1321, making it indeed 14th Century.
2. Filippo who?

Filippo Villani

[Divine Unity]

1. The Divine Comedy was wrote between 1308 and 1321, making it indeed 14th Century.
2. Filippo who?

Filippo Villani

Also known as Filippo, the not a Church Official.

I crush this argument. Dante is neat, Dante is cool. His poems are good. But they're nothing more than poems.

[Sanguinthium]

why would fanatics tell the lie that god would? could it possibly be for their own blindly self centered interests?
god, the last time i checked, and with pretty much the entire spectrum of beliefs which have a god, LOVES atheists, and loves them far more then fanatics of any stripe.

A raped, unengaged virgin must marry her rapist and they can never divorce (Deuteronomy 22:28-29).

i want love from that guy.

or perhaps how he hardens the pharaohs heart so that he wont allow moses n' the Hebrews to leave... and then punishes egypt with plagues for not letting the Hebrews leave.

“According to scripture it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of law to fail” (Luke 16:17 & Matthew 5:18-19).

[Caninope]

1. The Divine Comedy was wrote between 1308 and 1321, making it indeed 14th Century.
2. Filippo who?

I knew a Filippo when I lived in Nola during the 8th century. He had a butcher shop in town but always made deliveries out to my villa. Of course, my cook, Martina, was pretty cute.

That's what happens when you have German ruling Italy, I guess. Immorality.

[Divine Unity]

why would fanatics tell the lie that god would? could it possibly be for their own blindly self centered interests?
god, the last time i checked, and with pretty much the entire spectrum of beliefs which have a god, LOVES atheists, and loves them far more then fanatics of any stripe.

A raped, unengaged virgin must marry her rapist and they can never divorce (Deuteronomy 22:28-29).

i want love from that guy.

or perhaps how he hardens the pharaohs heart so that he wont allow moses n' the Hebrews to leave... and then punishes egypt with plagues for not letting the Hebrews leave.

“According to scripture it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of law to fail” (Luke 16:17 & Matthew 5:18-19).

My argument is so much easier when I get to say that these are more parables or Jewish laws that I'm not held to.

[Seperates]

Gods love having atheists around... it gives them something to aim at. -- Terry Prachett

[Seperates]

A raped, unengaged virgin must marry her rapist and they can never divorce (Deuteronomy 22:28-29).

i want love from that guy.

or perhaps how he hardens the pharaohs heart so that he wont allow moses n' the Hebrews to leave... and then punishes egypt with plagues for not letting the Hebrews leave.

“According to scripture it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of law to fail” (Luke 16:17 & Matthew 5:18-19).

My argument is so much easier when I get to say that these are more parables or Jewish laws that I'm not held to.

Hooray for meaningless metaphors...

[Divine Unity]

My argument is so much easier when I get to say that these are more parables or Jewish laws that I'm not held to.

Hooray for meaningless metaphors...

Meaningful metaphors, but metaphors nonetheless.

[Sanguinthium]

My argument is so much easier when I get to say that these are more parables or Jewish laws that I'm not held to.

Hooray for meaningless metaphors...

how is that metaphorical? Do explain- the bible is not going to be metaphorical about the legal codes. next thing you know, its metaphorical about the 10 commandments, etc etc, and then its metaphorical that murder is wrong.

[Farnhamia]

Filippo Villani

Also known as Filippo, the not a Church Official.

I crush this argument. Dante is neat, Dante is cool. His poems are good. But they're nothing more than poems.

WIki sayeth, "In his old age, he spent his time in Florence as public reader of the Divine Comedy by the Florentine Dante Alighieri.[1] Accepting this job in 1392, he was given an annual stipend of 150 gold florins." As DU says, not a Church official.

[The Archregimancy]

damnit i keep mixing them it!
Tiberius, trajen.. so similar!

and you know absolutely nothing about norse paganism. just because you say you do doesnt make it right. just like how i keep mixing Tiberius and Trajen up, and presenting it as fact

*makes popcorn*

I'm not going to indulge him, Farn.

I know what I do for a living, you know what I do for a living, and we can both be amused at the contention that I know 'absolutely nothing' about Norse paganism.

It might not, however, be appreciated that in addition to what I do for a living, I used to live in Iceland - where, as it happens, I once met the self-proclaimed High Priest of Odin. Though it might be more relevant to note that the Poetic Edda is a standard part of the school curriculum.

His continued attempts to explain away, or adapt, his extensive factual errors as either irrelevant, or by covering up factual errors by making further factual errors (such as stating that a date of 1277 - which itself doesn't relate to any significant event in Dante's life given Signor Alighieri was born in c.1265 - is somehow relevant to a statement that a work written from 1308-1321 is 14th-century in date) have by now so undermined his credibility that I don't see any point in wasting my time by countering the multiple factual errors of someone who clearly knows so little about something he thinks he knows so much about.

But I did get a laugh out of the contention that a statement by the not terribly important Florentine historian Filippo Villani (his uncle was far more important) should be taken as an official position on the Divine Comedy as Catholic dogma. An awful lot of people over the last few centuries have referred to Shakespeare and Mozart as in some manner 'divinely inspired'; I eagerly await Sanguinthium's argument that Titus Andronicus demonstrates that eating your children after they've been baked into a pie is an accepted part of Anglican doctrine, or that the Masonic opera Die Zauberflöte is held in equal regard in Catholic doctrine to the Catholic requiem mass.

Unlike Queen Victoria, I am very much amused, and hope that Sanguinthium will continue to provide us with this level of rich entertainment for some days to come.


---------------------------------------------------------------------

*bows*

While God may hate you, at least you have the luxury that his followers on earth grudgingly admire your discussion on the subject of his existence...

I realise Johz meant that to be gently sarcastic, but I would stress that - from my position - there's nothing grudging about it. There are several atheist or non-Christian posters who have contributed to this thread who have consistently shown - in this thread and in others - that while they oppose Christianity, they do so from a position of knowledge about those aspects they oppose, usually combined with a willingness to be corrected when they make a factual error, or perhaps to learn more about a specific issue that interests them, even where it's obvious they'll continue to disagree both with that issue specifically and Christianity generally. They have amply earned my respect, even though it's obvious there are some things over which we will no doubt always disagree.

They're certainly not going to dig themselves a hole of factual error, and then make that hole ever-deeper by spending 30 something pages continuing to repeat those factual errors, or attempting to explain away the factual errors by making even more factual errors.

[Arcomo]

Not all people say atheists go to hell. There are plenty of religious people who believe there's a bit more to it than blind faith in Jeebus.

Personally, I think God would be happy to accept us Godless folk into heaven. At least we treat him like an adult and don't continuously bug him with the most mundane displeasures.

[Angleter]

why would fanatics tell the lie that god would? could it possibly be for their own blindly self centered interests?
god, the last time i checked, and with pretty much the entire spectrum of beliefs which have a god, LOVES atheists, and loves them far more then fanatics of any stripe.

A raped, unengaged virgin must marry her rapist and they can never divorce (Deuteronomy 22:28-29).

i want love from that guy.

or perhaps how he hardens the pharaohs heart so that he wont allow moses n' the Hebrews to leave... and then punishes egypt with plagues for not letting the Hebrews leave.

“According to scripture it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of law to fail” (Luke 16:17 & Matthew 5:18-19).

The 613 Mitzvot apply to the Jewish nation only (and then not all of them practice them all or think they ought to). The 'jot or tittle' quotations are somewhat out of context- in Luke, Jesus had just said that since John the Baptist started teaching the Kingdom of God as opposed to merely law and Scripture, many have accessed that Kingdom, and was clarifying (and this is what he does in Matthew) that the law would still apply until all was fulfilled. Christian teaching, shown later in the Bible, is that Christ fulfilled the laws, establishing the new covenant, and so on and soforth. Of course, on both occasions he was speaking to the Jews.

[Dyakovo]

*bows*

D: i dont get a mention??!?!!1

forever alone...

You got a mention... You're the one who keeps getting shit wrong...

[Foamy XIII]

God was created by man to compensate for the weakness of man.

[Dyakovo]

While God may hate you, at least you have the luxury that his followers on earth grudgingly admire your discussion on the subject of his existence...

I realise Johz meant that to be gently sarcastic, but I would stress that - from my position - there's nothing grudging about it. There are several atheist or non-Christian posters who have contributed to this thread who have consistently shown - in this thread and in others - that while they oppose Christianity, they do so from a position of knowledge about those aspects they oppose, usually combined with a willingness to be corrected when they make a factual error, or perhaps to learn more about a specific issue that interests them, even where it's obvious they'll continue to disagree both with that issue specifically and Christianity generally. They have amply earned my respect, even though it's obvious there are some things over which we will no doubt always disagree.

They're certainly not going to dig themselves a hole of factual error, and then make that hole ever-deeper by spending 30 something pages continuing to repeat those factual errors, or attempting to explain away the factual errors by making even more factual errors.

That was why my bow... My knowledge of christianity has grown tremendously since coming to NS, thanks in part to my taking the time to listen to various people here who have corrected errors on my part over the years. This expansion in knowledge hasn't changed my feelings about christianity, but they have greatly increased my effectiveness in debating my position.
Arguing from ignorance is never a good thing.

[Johz]

why would fanatics tell the lie that god would? could it possibly be for their own blindly self centered interests?
god, the last time i checked, and with pretty much the entire spectrum of beliefs which have a god, LOVES atheists, and loves them far more then fanatics of any stripe.

A raped, unengaged virgin must marry her rapist and they can never divorce (Deuteronomy 22:28-29).

i want love from that guy.

or perhaps how he hardens the pharaohs heart so that he wont allow moses n' the Hebrews to leave... and then punishes egypt with plagues for not letting the Hebrews leave.

“According to scripture it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of law to fail” (Luke 16:17 & Matthew 5:18-19).

Re the second bit, because I don't have much time as I'd rather be spending it with my grandparents, the culture at the time was that God played a hand in everything, so you read rather confusing statements where Abraham is being lauded as the father of nations, and then, for some unknown reason, God strikes him down. In the light of the new testament and the emphasis on free will, Christians today would not see this as being God who hardened the pharaoh's heart. Instead, it would be argued that the pharaoh was hardening his own heart due to the gift of free will.

[Johz]

I realise Johz meant that to be gently sarcastic, but I would stress that - from my position - there's nothing grudging about it. There are several atheist or non-Christian posters who have contributed to this thread who have consistently shown - in this thread and in others - that while they oppose Christianity, they do so from a position of knowledge about those aspects they oppose, usually combined with a willingness to be corrected when they make a factual error, or perhaps to learn more about a specific issue that interests them, even where it's obvious they'll continue to disagree both with that issue specifically and Christianity generally. They have amply earned my respect, even though it's obvious there are some things over which we will no doubt always disagree.

They're certainly not going to dig themselves a hole of factual error, and then make that hole ever-deeper by spending 30 something pages continuing to repeat those factual errors, or attempting to explain away the factual errors by making even more factual errors.

That was why my bow... My knowledge of christianity has grown tremendously since coming to NS, thanks in part to my taking the time to listen to various people here who have corrected errors on my part over the years. This expansion in knowledge hasn't changed my feelings about christianity, but they have greatly increased my effectiveness in debating my position.
Arguing from ignorance is never a good thing.

And in return, understanding the viewpoints of atheists and their arguments has improved my understanding of religion, and has forced me to learn more about what Christianity believes, and what I believe. Arch, of course. While no-one ever won an internet debate, you do tend to learn a lot while losing...

[Dyakovo]

That was why my bow... My knowledge of christianity has grown tremendously since coming to NS, thanks in part to my taking the time to listen to various people here who have corrected errors on my part over the years. This expansion in knowledge hasn't changed my feelings about christianity, but they have greatly increased my effectiveness in debating my position.
Arguing from ignorance is never a good thing.

And in return, understanding the viewpoints of atheists and their arguments has improved my understanding of religion, and has forced me to learn more about what Christianity believes, and what I believe. Arch, of course. While no-one ever won an internet debate, you do tend to learn a lot while losing...

NSG religious debate: a win-win situation.

[Farnhamia]

*makes popcorn*

I'm not going to indulge him, Farn.

I know what I do for a living, you know what I do for a living, and we can both be amused at the contention that I know 'absolutely nothing' about Norse paganism.

It might not, however, be appreciated that in addition to what I do for a living, I used to live in Iceland - where, as it happens, I once met the self-proclaimed High Priest of Odin. Though it might be more relevant to note that the Poetic Edda is a standard part of the school curriculum.

His continued attempts to explain away, or adapt, his extensive factual errors as either irrelevant, or by covering up factual errors by making further factual errors (such as stating that a date of 1277 - which itself doesn't relate to any significant event in Dante's life given Signor Alighieri was born in c.1265 - is somehow relevant to a statement that a work written from 1308-1321 is 14th-century in date) have by now so undermined his credibility that I don't see any point in wasting my time by countering the multiple factual errors of someone who clearly knows so little about something he thinks he knows so much about.

But I did get a laugh out of the contention that a statement by the not terribly important Florentine historian Filippo Villani (his uncle was far more important) should be taken as an official position on the Divine Comedy as Catholic dogma. An awful lot of people over the last few centuries have referred to Shakespeare and Mozart as in some manner 'divinely inspired'; I eagerly await Sanguinthium's argument that Titus Andronicus demonstrates that eating your children after they've been baked into a pie is an accepted part of Anglican doctrine, or that the Masonic opera Die Zauberflöte is held in equal regard in Catholic doctrine to the Catholic requiem mass.

Unlike Queen Victoria, I am very much amused, and hope that Sanguinthium will continue to provide us with this level of rich entertainment for some days to come.


---------------------------------------------------------------------

While God may hate you, at least you have the luxury that his followers on earth grudgingly admire your discussion on the subject of his existence...

I realise Johz meant that to be gently sarcastic, but I would stress that - from my position - there's nothing grudging about it. There are several atheist or non-Christian posters who have contributed to this thread who have consistently shown - in this thread and in others - that while they oppose Christianity, they do so from a position of knowledge about those aspects they oppose, usually combined with a willingness to be corrected when they make a factual error, or perhaps to learn more about a specific issue that interests them, even where it's obvious they'll continue to disagree both with that issue specifically and Christianity generally. They have amply earned my respect, even though it's obvious there are some things over which we will no doubt always disagree.

They're certainly not going to dig themselves a hole of factual error, and then make that hole ever-deeper by spending 30 something pages continuing to repeat those factual errors, or attempting to explain away the factual errors by making even more factual errors.

The popcorn was good anyway, Arch.

[Sanguinthium]

*makes popcorn*

I'm not going to indulge him, Farn.

I know what I do for a living, you know what I do for a living, and we can both be amused at the contention that I know 'absolutely nothing' about Norse paganism.

It might not, however, be appreciated that in addition to what I do for a living, I used to live in Iceland - where, as it happens, I once met the self-proclaimed High Priest of Odin. Though it might be more relevant to note that the Poetic Edda is a standard part of the school curriculum.

His continued attempts to explain away, or adapt, his extensive factual errors as either irrelevant, or by covering up factual errors by making further factual errors (such as stating that a date of 1277 - which itself doesn't relate to any significant event in Dante's life given Signor Alighieri was born in c.1265 - is somehow relevant to a statement that a work written from 1308-1321 is 14th-century in date) have by now so undermined his credibility that I don't see any point in wasting my time by countering the multiple factual errors of someone who clearly knows so little about something he thinks he knows so much about.

But I did get a laugh out of the contention that a statement by the not terribly important Florentine historian Filippo Villani (his uncle was far more important) should be taken as an official position on the Divine Comedy as Catholic dogma. An awful lot of people over the last few centuries have referred to Shakespeare and Mozart as in some manner 'divinely inspired'; I eagerly await Sanguinthium's argument that Titus Andronicus demonstrates that eating your children after they've been baked into a pie is an accepted part of Anglican doctrine, or that the Masonic opera Die Zauberflöte is held in equal regard in Catholic doctrine to the Catholic requiem mass.

Unlike Queen Victoria, I am very much amused, and hope that Sanguinthium will continue to provide us with this level of rich entertainment for some days to come.


---------------------------------------------------------------------

While God may hate you, at least you have the luxury that his followers on earth grudgingly admire your discussion on the subject of his existence...

I realise Johz meant that to be gently sarcastic, but I would stress that - from my position - there's nothing grudging about it. There are several atheist or non-Christian posters who have contributed to this thread who have consistently shown - in this thread and in others - that while they oppose Christianity, they do so from a position of knowledge about those aspects they oppose, usually combined with a willingness to be corrected when they make a factual error, or perhaps to learn more about a specific issue that interests them, even where it's obvious they'll continue to disagree both with that issue specifically and Christianity generally. They have amply earned my respect, even though it's obvious there are some things over which we will no doubt always disagree.

They're certainly not going to dig themselves a hole of factual error, and then make that hole ever-deeper by spending 30 something pages continuing to repeat those factual errors, or attempting to explain away the factual errors by making even more factual errors.

you seem to omit about 2/3 of my post, mr mod- thou are ignorant! did you even read my sources?


repost time!

anyway, just because YOU claim it to be legend doesnt mean that nobody believes it. my local priest said he exhumed to remains of Trajen. in his ashes. wonder how that one worked besides...

the Bible wrote:"All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for refutation, for correction, and for training in righteousness..." (2 Timothy 3:16 NAB)



Baldr is not anything close to Nordic Jesus.

Baldr predates Christianity in scandinavia. Thor is the only Norse god who would qualify as a Jesus is either Tyr or Thor, and neither of them were even trying to pretend to be peaceful.

Hitler, However was a christian.
Do try to stop trolling me- its starting to bug me.

[Dyakovo]

you seem to omit about 2/3 of my post, mr mod- thou are ignorant! did you even read my sources?

So... Since he destroyed your argument, now you are resorting to name-calling?
Very mature...