Why would god hate an athiest?

[Norstal]

If God would really allow humanity choose its own path, that means all path must be possible. That means, He would love us so much that He would allow humanity to take God's place. So, his omnipotence is important in that, in the absence of such powers, it would actually shows that He really does love everyone he creates to the point that He would sacrifice himself by creating creatures that would rebel against Him.

Just something to think about. A believe in a non-omnipotent god gives greater emphasis of one's personal relationship with their god.

Welcome to the crucifixion.

Yeah, but a dead god that just revives from the dead isn't really dead.

[Farnhamia]

Probably before Vatican-2, since then it's had rehab...

the southern poverty law center considers radical traditional Catholics to be a hate group.

Apparently for good reason.

[Farnhamia]

Welcome to the crucifixion.

Yeah, but a dead god that just revives from the dead isn't really dead.

Indeed. And what's the big deal about rising from the dead? There were plenty of gods in the old days who did that, and some of them on a regular basis in the Spring.

[Sanguinthium]

Yeah, but a dead god that just revives from the dead isn't really dead.

Indeed. And what's the big deal about rising from the dead? There were plenty of gods in the old days who did that, and some of them on a regular basis in the Spring.

Le Zombie Cheesus. proof that the zombie apocalypse will occur.

Problem, Scientists?

[Farnhamia]

Indeed. And what's the big deal about rising from the dead? There were plenty of gods in the old days who did that, and some of them on a regular basis in the Spring.

Le Zombie Cheesus. proof that the zombie apocalypse will occur.

Problem, Scientists?

Except he's not a zombie. Zombies, as I understand them, are reanimated, shambling corpses, or at best living beings with only enough brain function to keep from falling over. Jesus, if you accept the mythology, was fully functional and, in fact, had enhanced powers (witness his scouring of Hell).

[Sanguinthium]

Le Zombie Cheesus. proof that the zombie apocalypse will occur.

Problem, Scientists?

Except he's not a zombie. Zombies, as I understand them, are reanimated, shambling corpses, or at best living beings with only enough brain function to keep from falling over. Jesus, if you accept the mythology, was fully functional and, in fact, had enhanced powers (witness his scouring of Hell).

Prototype.

perhaps the virus has a genetic deficiency, and with each infection, it lowers brain function, with Jesus being the first case, remaining relatively functional.

[The Archregimancy]

my gods can. Baldr will. all of them will- but Baldr will remain, Safe in Helheim, the only plane which will survive Ragnarok, with Hel. the dying god is a very common archetype.

The problem with Baldur being that, with the exception of the Merseburg Incantation story regarding Wodan healing Baldur's horse, there are no sources attesting to his existence in Norse mythology until some 200 years after the conversion of Scandinavia to Christianity.

While the name Baldur itself appears to pre-date the Christian conversion of Scandinavia, the most prevalent version of the god almost certainly represents a post-contact syncretic attempt to adapt certain elements of Christianity to Norse paganism.

No doubt many of the Christians participating in the thread are pleased that you think so highly of Viking Jesus; which may, indeed, have been part of the original point behind the best-known version of Baldur.

[Sanguinthium]

my gods can. Baldr will. all of them will- but Baldr will remain, Safe in Helheim, the only plane which will survive Ragnarok, with Hel. the dying god is a very common archetype.

The problem with Baldur being that, with the exception of the Merseburg Incantation story regarding Wodan healing Baldur's horse, there are no sources attesting to his existence in Norse mythology until some 200 years after the conversion of Scandinavia to Christianity.

While the name Baldur itself appears to pre-date the Christian conversion of Scandinavia, the most prevalent version of the god almost certainly represents a post-contact syncretic attempt to adapt certain elements of Christianity to Norse paganism.

No doubt many of the Christians participating in the thread are pleased that you think so highly of Viking Jesus; which may, indeed, have been part of the original point behind the best-known version of Baldur.

1. if there was any Viking jesus, it would be thor. thor, being the champion of the gods, is the most likely candidate- Baldr being the god of beauty and... love (not the feeling, Necessarily) would not fit the type.
2. The Elder Edda mentions him several times, in the capacity of the dying god. while being combined into one book in the 13th century, the individual Poems are much older.

[The Alma Mater]

1. if there was any Viking jesus, it would be thor.

Considering many people suppose that Father Christmas was based on Odin; that would make Christmas more of a family reunion

[Serrland]

The problem with Baldur being that, with the exception of the Merseburg Incantation story regarding Wodan healing Baldur's horse, there are no sources attesting to his existence in Norse mythology until some 200 years after the conversion of Scandinavia to Christianity.

While the name Baldur itself appears to pre-date the Christian conversion of Scandinavia, the most prevalent version of the god almost certainly represents a post-contact syncretic attempt to adapt certain elements of Christianity to Norse paganism.

No doubt many of the Christians participating in the thread are pleased that you think so highly of Viking Jesus; which may, indeed, have been part of the original point behind the best-known version of Baldur.

1. if there was any Viking jesus, it would be thor.
2. The Ancient Edda mentions him several times.

I thought the Edda was post-conversion to Christianity, if we accept the dates in the Libellus Islandorum on the conversion of Iceland (c.999-1000)?

[Sanguinthium]

1. if there was any Viking jesus, it would be thor.

Considering many people suppose that Father Christmas was based on Odin; that would make Christmas more of a family reunion

Never heard that one before- odin is the psychopomp, to be honest, and the patriarch of the Aesir clan. if anything, i would put Bragi as the Father Christmas. although Odin is the all father...

1. if there was any Viking jesus, it would be thor.
2. The Ancient Edda mentions him several times.

I thought the Edda was post-conversion to Christianity, if we accept the dates in the Libellus Islandorum on the conversion of Iceland (c.999-1000)?

That is when they were COMPILED into a single book in the 13th century,but this is not when when they were written, which is generally accepted to be the Viking Age- Hávamál, for instance, is old enough to be considered to be the word of odin.

[The Archregimancy]

Considering many people suppose that Father Christmas was based on Odin; that would make Christmas more of a family reunion

Never heard that one before- odin is the psychopomp, to be honest, and the patriarch of the Aesir clan. if anything, i would put Bragi as the Father Christmas. although Odin is the all father...

I thought the Edda was post-conversion to Christianity, if we accept the dates in the Libellus Islandorum on the conversion of Iceland (c.999-1000)?

That is when they were COMPILED into a single book in the 13th century,but this is not when when they were written, which is generally accepted to be the Viking Age- Hávamál, for instance, is old enough to be considered to be the word of odin.

No; the 13th century is when a sequence of oral traditions of different date were collated and written down in one text in Iceland.

Some of the individual poems are datable, and some are early, but I note two things here. The Hávamál is in origin indeed probably early, but is also the earliest roughly datable poem in the Edda, so is by no means representative of the whole. There are no pre-Christian independent references to the Baldur resurrection myth that I know of; these are entirely post-contact with Christianity, and are widely held in modern scholarship to be a syncretic introduction of Christian themes into Norse myth.

Hurrah for resurrected Viking Jesus whom everyone (except mistletoe and Loki) loves, and whose death prefigures the end times!

And even with the Hávamál, there are no written versions existing prior to the 13th century, and while individual stanzas can be backdated to the 9th or 10th century, it's likely that even it contains a lot of subsequent post-Christian interpolation. That individual stanzas are old does not necessarily mean that the entirety of the poem is as old as the oldest stanzas.

[Shadowlandistan]

if there is a god, and it had a vengeful tendency of damning those who don't believe with an eternity of hellfire and torture, that wouldn't be very godlike would it?

[Farnhamia]

if there is a god, and it had a vengeful tendency of damning those who don't believe with an eternity of hellfire and torture, that wouldn't be very godlike would it?

That depends. If that characteristic is part of the deity's personality, it's quite "godlike." Perspective, see.

[The Alma Mater]

if there is a god, and it had a vengeful tendency of damning those who don't believe with an eternity of hellfire and torture, that wouldn't be very godlike would it?

Why not ? There is no reason a god has to be nice.

[Caninope]

"Shit, the athiest bitch knows more about Ancient Egypt than I do, erm, erm, make off hand dismissive remark suggesting that the evidence for my crap does exist, it just hasn't been found yet..."

Thank you, I accept your concession of defeat on that point...

Except I noted in the post that you first quoted that there was little to no evidence directly linking the two.

I don't exclusivly use googled web sources, so I don't have a link for you, but, you could try asking the relevant scholars at the universities in Jerusalem and Tel Aviv...

Seeing how I don't live and go to college in Israel, this isn't an option. Give me a source.

What did I tell you about using low IQ bible-belt apologetics websites written by one unqualified man to promote his book sales, tektonics agan...

Lets sum up his arguent
"Gawd new the earth wus a sphere, so his profits new it too, but hebrew aint got no wurd for sphere, that why they dunt use the sphere wurd, tho they di hav a wurd fur round..."

The source is fine. The problem comes from a lack of words in ancient languages, combined with the multiple translations of the Bible throughout history. Unless, you of course, think that we have a copy of the original Bible.

But you still don't actually have any real evidence or facts do you, laughing boy...

I'd prefer it if you laid off the ad hominems.

So, we can't have a measured period of time without the sun... Not even going to bother arguing with that rubbish.

Didn't say that. I did say that you can't have a solar day without a sun though.

Really, so the term used to describe Eve, adams wife is the same as the term used to describe an animal, wrong answer, Adam is asked to choose a 'helpmeet' and refuses ALL the animals, so god makes Eve s the 'helpmeet'

You're right. Helpmeet (helper or companion) is never directly used in the description of Eve in the KJV, which you seem so found of using.

The only way that passage could be claimed to refer to domestication of animals is if the only animal domesticated is 'woman'.

So now you are a sexist as well as a racist and heightist, speaking of which...

I'm a sexist? Really? If you were to look through my posting record, you'd find nothing of the sort. Please stop accusing me of being racist.

I said nothing about nutrition, I was referring to your racist heightist crap in support of 'biblical giants'

Let's see what your 'source' has to say on giants...

Height is largely related to nutrition.

Oh I'm impressed, especially since it also mentions Kalahari bushmen, in the paper, a tribe not noted for their gigantic stature...

Apparently you think they are too short to be hunter gatherers...

Hunter gatherers, as explained to me in my Western Civ class, got shorter as they were overtook by farmers. The hunter gatherers got the worst land. If you note, that nice little tidbit you quote supports me.

Sorry, but half the size, and river worthy... do try to get it right...

The largest estimates Wikipedia gives makes it a little under the ark's size.

That's because you don't give facts because you don't have any... The timeline is given by the people who study proto-semitic, as in a millennium or 3 before your scruffy nomadic sheep herders god supposedly sent the flood...

When did God supposedly send the flood?

Ohhhhhhhh, right...... There was this Major Flood that JUST covered the entire middle east, ahhhhh thats different...
And a complete pile of crap...

Once again didn't say that. As the neolithic started, the Ice Age was ending. This could easily be the source of the flood motif that floods (pardon the pun) the Near East.

[Caninope]

They are one entity, but distinct in person.

Your perfect all powerful, all knowing god had Multiple Personality Disorder?

In the same way that something like a hivemind does.

[Farnhamia]

Ohhhhhhhh, right...... There was this Major Flood that JUST covered the entire middle east, ahhhhh thats different...
And a complete pile of crap...

Once again didn't say that. As the neolithic started, the Ice Age was ending. This could easily be the source of the flood motif that floods (pardon the pun) the Near East.

Actually ... At the end of the Last Glacial Maximum, sea level was considerably lower than it is today. The entire Persian Gulf was dry, with a river running down the middle of it. Seacoasts are good places to live, there's a lot to eat. Melt all that ice and the sea rises, quickly in places (in the Persion Gulf a kilometer a year has been hypothesized). That would certainly generate legends about floods, not only in the Middle East but around the world.

[Caninope]

Once again didn't say that. As the neolithic started, the Ice Age was ending. This could easily be the source of the flood motif that floods (pardon the pun) the Near East.

Actually ... At the end of the Last Glacial Maximum, sea level was considerably lower than it is today. The entire Persian Gulf was dry, with a river running down the middle of it. Seacoasts are good places to live, there's a lot to eat. Melt all that ice and the sea rises, quickly in places (in the Persion Gulf a kilometer a year has been hypothesized). That would certainly generate legends about floods, not only in the Middle East but around the world.

There are flood legends around the world. See here. I referred to the Near East ones because it seems likely that they might have come from the same event.

[Serrland]

Once again didn't say that. As the neolithic started, the Ice Age was ending. This could easily be the source of the flood motif that floods (pardon the pun) the Near East.

Actually ... At the end of the Last Glacial Maximum, sea level was considerably lower than it is today. The entire Persian Gulf was dry, with a river running down the middle of it. Seacoasts are good places to live, there's a lot to eat. Melt all that ice and the sea rises, quickly in places (in the Persion Gulf a kilometer a year has been hypothesized). That would certainly generate legends about floods, not only in the Middle East but around the world.

Not to mention, the greatest of early civilizations were along rivers that were prone to flooding - the Nile, Tigris, Euphrates, Indus, to a lesser extent the Orontes, etc

[Demonatrix]

What did I tell you about using low IQ bible-belt apologetics websites written by one unqualified man to promote his book sales, tektonics agan...

Lets sum up his arguent
"Gawd new the earth wus a sphere, so his profits new it too, but hebrew aint got no wurd for sphere, that why they dunt use the sphere wurd, tho they di hav a wurd fur round..."

The source is fine. The problem comes from a lack of words in ancient languages, combined with the multiple translations of the Bible throughout history. Unless, you of course, think that we have a copy of the original Bible.

But you still don't actually have any real evidence or facts do you, laughing boy...

I'd prefer it if you laid off the ad hominems.

I said nothing about nutrition, I was referring to your racist heightist crap in support of 'biblical giants'

Let's see what your 'source' has to say on giants...

Height is largely related to nutrition.

Oh I'm impressed, especially since it also mentions Kalahari bushmen, in the paper, a tribe not noted for their gigantic stature...

Apparently you think they are too short to be hunter gatherers...

Hunter gatherers, as explained to me in my Western Civ class, got shorter as they were overtook by farmers. The hunter gatherers got the worst land. If you note, that nice little tidbit you quote supports me.

You don't actually know what an Ad Hominem is do you?

The Jews regard the Torah as holy, not just in its meaning, but the actual written form it's self, they are VERY careful when making copies by hand, as if they make a mistake, the page cannot be thrown away because it might have a holy name on it, and that would be blasphemy, so they copy letter by letter, not word by word, or sentence by sentence.

There are copies of Torah that predate Christian documents, and the text has remained remarkably consistant, and for the old testament, thats as close to an original copy as you are likely to find...

As for the hunter gather thing, your earlier post claimed hunter gatherers were TALLER than agrarians, and you posted a link to support this, now you claim that agrairians overtake hunter gatherers, and that the same link supports this also...

How exactly does any of this prove the ot is accurate when it mentions giants? Especially as hunter gatherers are not universally taller or shorter than agrarian peoples...

[Farnhamia]

Actually ... At the end of the Last Glacial Maximum, sea level was considerably lower than it is today. The entire Persian Gulf was dry, with a river running down the middle of it. Seacoasts are good places to live, there's a lot to eat. Melt all that ice and the sea rises, quickly in places (in the Persion Gulf a kilometer a year has been hypothesized). That would certainly generate legends about floods, not only in the Middle East but around the world.

There are flood legends around the world. See here. I referred to the Near East ones because it seems likely that they might have come from the same event.

Oh, sure, I understand that. I don't think there was a single event, but rather a series of events, a continual transgression of the sea. Of course, there's the theory that it was the catastrophic flooding of the Black Sea valley that generated the legends in the Near East. It was pretty amazing. Luckily my clan got a warning from some hunters who actually saw the waterfall, and we were able to make it out of there. Arch's people, too, they were over in the Sea of Avoz area.

[Demonatrix]

Once again didn't say that. As the neolithic started, the Ice Age was ending. This could easily be the source of the flood motif that floods (pardon the pun) the Near East.

Actually ... At the end of the Last Glacial Maximum, sea level was considerably lower than it is today. The entire Persian Gulf was dry, with a river running down the middle of it. Seacoasts are good places to live, there's a lot to eat. Melt all that ice and the sea rises, quickly in places (in the Persion Gulf a kilometer a year has been hypothesized). That would certainly generate legends about floods, not only in the Middle East but around the world.

Do you have a source for sea levels being a kilometer lower than present in the middle east any time in the last oh 25,000 years.

[Demonatrix]

Actually ... At the end of the Last Glacial Maximum, sea level was considerably lower than it is today. The entire Persian Gulf was dry, with a river running down the middle of it. Seacoasts are good places to live, there's a lot to eat. Melt all that ice and the sea rises, quickly in places (in the Persion Gulf a kilometer a year has been hypothesized). That would certainly generate legends about floods, not only in the Middle East but around the world.

Not to mention, the greatest of early civilizations were along rivers that were prone to flooding - the Nile, Tigris, Euphrates, Indus, to a lesser extent the Orontes, etc

Rivers flooding doesn't sound like the kind of thing that matches a myth of a flood that covers every mountain on earth, and most river floods do not cover an area wide enough, deep enough to suggest any such thing.

[Farnhamia]

Actually ... At the end of the Last Glacial Maximum, sea level was considerably lower than it is today. The entire Persian Gulf was dry, with a river running down the middle of it. Seacoasts are good places to live, there's a lot to eat. Melt all that ice and the sea rises, quickly in places (in the Persion Gulf a kilometer a year has been hypothesized). That would certainly generate legends about floods, not only in the Middle East but around the world.

Do you have a source for sea levels being a kilometer lower than present in the middle east any time in the last oh 25,000 years.

Not a kilometer lower. The rising sea probably advanced inland as much as a kilometer a year. Distance, not depth.

In "Early State Formation in Southern Mesopotamia: Sea Levels, Shorelines, and Climate Change," Kennett & Kennett, Journal of Island & Coastal Archaeology, 1:67-99, 2006:
"Most notable rapid rises in sea level in the Arabo-Persian Gulf occurred between 12,000 and 11,500 BP and again from 9500 to 8500 BP, and during these periods the lateral transgression probably exceeded 1 km per year (Teller et al. 2000:
306)." It's a PDF but only 1.4 MB. Search for the last phrase in the sentece. An Interesting article, too.