Christians-

[Clamparapa]

Meh, I believe in an afterlife, but I don't really care much what the arguments against it are. When we die, we'll find out. There's no way you can tell me otherwise. I'm too stubborn and too much of a staunch Christian to care.

[Blouman Empire]

God must be a really sick sort of chap to do so, especially if that person ruined hundreds of lives as a consequence of his action. Sure, genuinely being sorry is nice, but it ain't going to change anything. Pol Pot can be genuinely sorry in the last bit of his life, but it ain't going to change the fact that 3 million Kampucheans were murdered, and millions more maimed, legless and armless.

Sick sort of chap to forgive?

Not at all, you are right that it isn't going to change anything and even if he is really sorry for what he did and is forgiven doesn't mean what he did is all of a sudden now alright.

[Clamparapa]

God must be a really sick sort of chap to do so, especially if that person ruined hundreds of lives as a consequence of his action. Sure, genuinely being sorry is nice, but it ain't going to change anything. Pol Pot can be genuinely sorry in the last bit of his life, but it ain't going to change the fact that 3 million Kampucheans were murdered, and millions more maimed, legless and armless.

Sick sort of chap to forgive?

Not at all, you are right that it isn't going to change anything and even if he is really sorry for what he did and is forgiven doesn't mean what he did is all of a sudden now alright.

I agree with BE here. God forgives all. Trust me. Doesn't mean that you can be a jerk though. He forgives all but is saddened when we sin and punishes us accordingly in our lives.

[Communtopia]

He punishes us in life, wow! Amazing theory you have there. So, say, a rapist deflowers several pre-teens, genuinely repent, and is promptly killed, he has surely paid for ruining the lives of said pre-teens, the trauma he has cause them, the resulting feeling of uncleansiness, &c. &c., that they probably will never get over. Meanwhile, God, being the 'nice' sort of chap he is, lets Rapey McRapist into heaven, to frolic, pick flowers, and all that. Say that one of the rape victim ends up pregnant, she will be stigmatise by her peers, and she will bear the pain of childbirth, proof of the event, &c. Sounds like God is punishing the victim for being raped. If this is God, certainly I would rather rot in hell in believe in it.

[Clamparapa]

He punishes us in life, wow! Amazing theory you have there. So, say, a rapist deflowers several pre-teens, genuinely repent, and is promptly killed, he has surely paid for ruining the lives of said pre-teens, the trauma he has cause them, the resulting feeling of uncleansiness, &c. &c., that they probably will never get over. Meanwhile, God, being the 'nice' sort of chap he is, lets Rapey McRapist into heaven, to frolic, pick flowers, and all that. Say that one of the rape victim ends up pregnant, she will be stigmatise by her peers, and she will bear the pain of childbirth, proof of the event, &c. Sounds like God is punishing the victim for being raped. If this is God, certainly I would rather rot in hell in believe in it.

And this is where I laugh. If the rapist was truly repentant, he would turn himself in, allow the authorities to punish him, and start with a clean slate. That's what people don't understand about the Lord. He forgives and loves all regardless of what they've done. You've done some terrible things, I'm sure. But God forgives you. Do not judge others by their actions when you yourself are sin-ridden (by this I mean "you have sinned many times"). He punishes us, but through more consciousness and events in your life. If someone just repents because they think "Oh I'm good now. I'll go to Heaven. Yay me.", chances are they won't. They need to truly believe in God in their heart and soul to go to Heaven, and that's where the change comes in.

[Blouman Empire]

He punishes us in life, wow! Amazing theory you have there. So, say, a rapist deflowers several pre-teens, genuinely repent, and is promptly killed, he has surely paid for ruining the lives of said pre-teens, the trauma he has cause them, the resulting feeling of uncleansiness, &c. &c., that they probably will never get over. Meanwhile, God, being the 'nice' sort of chap he is, lets Rapey McRapist into heaven, to frolic, pick flowers, and all that. Say that one of the rape victim ends up pregnant, she will be stigmatise by her peers, and she will bear the pain of childbirth, proof of the event, &c. Sounds like God is punishing the victim for being raped. If this is God, certainly I would rather rot in hell in believe in it.

What are you on about?

[Maurepas]

seems like what jesus taught.

This^^^

didnt one of the criminals being crucified next to him enter heaven that exact way?

[Allbeama]

He punishes us in life, wow! Amazing theory you have there. So, say, a rapist deflowers several pre-teens, genuinely repent, and is promptly killed, he has surely paid for ruining the lives of said pre-teens, the trauma he has cause them, the resulting feeling of uncleansiness, &c. &c., that they probably will never get over. Meanwhile, God, being the 'nice' sort of chap he is, lets Rapey McRapist into heaven, to frolic, pick flowers, and all that. Say that one of the rape victim ends up pregnant, she will be stigmatise by her peers, and she will bear the pain of childbirth, proof of the event, &c. Sounds like God is punishing the victim for being raped. If this is God, certainly I would rather rot in hell in believe in it.

And this is where I laugh. If the rapist was truly repentant, he would turn himself in, allow the authorities to punish him, and start with a clean slate. That's what people don't understand about the Lord. He forgives and loves all regardless of what they've done. You've done some terrible things, I'm sure. But God forgives you. Do not judge others by their actions when you yourself are sin-ridden (by this I mean "you have sinned many times"). He punishes us, but through more consciousness and events in your life. If someone just repents because they think "Oh I'm good now. I'll go to Heaven. Yay me.", chances are they won't. They need to truly believe in God in their heart and soul to go to Heaven, and that's where the change comes in.

Yeah well here's a disconnect though... He loves us, but requires we submit to him or he will throw us into a burning pit of fire for all eternity AND He is supposed to be somehow moral? I think this God is frankly insane. He is a tyrant and those who follow him are oppressed.

[Non Aligned States]

It's all due to a fear of not having enough, and since everything is supposedly infinite in heaven, the keystone to most political parties are broken.

The one thing that isn't infinite is influence and control over others though. If heaven were real, power mongers and holier than thou types are sure to end up there. And where would that lead? Once they got enough followers? To war I bet. It's an inherent quality of humanity. Think of it as NSG's arguments, but all the arguers within easy reach of the other.

[Anti-Social Darwinism]

I think christians are filth.

Wow, first military people are trash and now this. You are trying to get banned, aren't you?

I'm not fond of Christianity, or any religion, for that matter. To me religion is the single greatest deterrent to spiritual growth extant. But to insult the people who chose to practice any religion, just because you have some uninteresting issues, is way below classless.

[Blouman Empire]

Yeah well here's a disconnect though... He loves us, but requires we submit to him or he will throw us into a burning pit of fire for all eternity AND He is supposed to be somehow moral? I think this God is frankly insane. He is a tyrant and those who follow him are oppressed.

But that's just it he doesn't care if you follow him or not he will still love you anyway. And no you won't be sent off to hell if you don't believe in him, just believing in him isn't enough to get into heaven.

[Allbeama]

Yeah well here's a disconnect though... He loves us, but requires we submit to him or he will throw us into a burning pit of fire for all eternity AND He is supposed to be somehow moral? I think this God is frankly insane. He is a tyrant and those who follow him are oppressed.

But that's just it he doesn't care if you follow him or not he will still love you anyway. And no you won't be sent off to hell if you don't believe in him, just believing in him isn't enough to get into heaven.

So you're saying that all that fire and brimstone rhetoric never happened?

[Blouman Empire]

So you're saying that all that fire and brimstone rhetoric never happened?

\

What?

[Allbeama]

So you're saying that all that fire and brimstone rhetoric never happened?

\

What?

Many Christians believe that those who are non believers and unrepentant sinners will spend eternity in "the fiery pit of hell" and we have a long tradition in America of preaching about hellfire and brimstone and being "sinners in the hands of an angry god". I mean are you familiar with conservative Christians in America, the Rapture, and all of that about the End Times, when the Anti Christ leads nonbelievers to Hell, and True Believers are granted eternal life in the Kingdom of Heaven and all that?

[Allbeama]

Has the "Christian's are filth" guy been warned or anything? Because that was not cool.

[Blouman Empire]

Many Christians believe that those who are non believers and unrepentant sinners will spend eternity in "the fiery pit of hell" and we have a long tradition in America of preaching about hellfire and brimstone and being "sinners in the hands of an angry god". I mean are you familiar with conservative Christians in America, the Rapture, and all of that about the End Times, when the Anti Christ leads nonbelievers to Hell, and True Believers are granted eternal life in the Kingdom of Heaven and all that?

Indeed, and also going on this God really does hate Jews.

And yes the Christians are filth guy got a one day ban.

[Allbeama]

Many Christians believe that those who are non believers and unrepentant sinners will spend eternity in "the fiery pit of hell" and we have a long tradition in America of preaching about hellfire and brimstone and being "sinners in the hands of an angry god". I mean are you familiar with conservative Christians in America, the Rapture, and all of that about the End Times, when the Anti Christ leads nonbelievers to Hell, and True Believers are granted eternal life in the Kingdom of Heaven and all that?

Indeed, and also going on this God really does hate Jews.

And yes the Christians are filth guy got a one day ban.

Good, because personally, that's not anywhere near a rational way to approach the topic and is unjust.

As for what I was saying this is the seemingly predominant view of Christian thought in my country and as such I feel that there are serious problems with the form this religion takes in my country.

[Geniasis]

Yeah well here's a disconnect though... He loves us, but requires we submit to him or he will throw us into a burning pit of fire for all eternity AND He is supposed to be somehow moral? I think this God is frankly insane. He is a tyrant and those who follow him are oppressed.

Technically, he doesn't send you to Hell. It's more of an opt-out kinda thing.

[Maurepas]

Yeah well here's a disconnect though... He loves us, but requires we submit to him or he will throw us into a burning pit of fire for all eternity AND He is supposed to be somehow moral? I think this God is frankly insane. He is a tyrant and those who follow him are oppressed.

Technically, he doesn't send you to Hell. It's more of an opt-out kinda thing.

Im not sure it counts as an "opt out" if it is a fiery pit of eternal torment...not to mention, worshiping some guy for all eternity is not exactly a fair requirement to avoid said fiery pit of eternal torment...

[Allbeama]

Yeah well here's a disconnect though... He loves us, but requires we submit to him or he will throw us into a burning pit of fire for all eternity AND He is supposed to be somehow moral? I think this God is frankly insane. He is a tyrant and those who follow him are oppressed.

Technically, he doesn't send you to Hell. It's more of an opt-out kinda thing.

I'm of the view that one should state that "gods love" is conditional, because that's how it looks. If you are required to act a certain way to receive the benefit of his love it is not unconditional and certainly not universal. It seems god hates those who disobey and loves those who submit. And also it seems that a morality based on what god likes is arbitrary and therefore not moral, to put it another way, Judaeo-Christian values are seemingly amoral. So I equate submission to an amoral ruler's authority with tyranny.

[CanuckHeaven]

There is no salvation, no forgiveness. I would like to illustrate: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eo7QeGSQd_w

Dear Father....forgive me for watching part of that.....whatever it was.

[Allbeama]

There is no salvation, no forgiveness. I would like to illustrate: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eo7QeGSQd_w

Dear Father....forgive me for watching part of that.....whatever it was.

It was marilyn manson's the reflecting god.

[Clamparapa]

Yeah well here's a disconnect though... He loves us, but requires we submit to him or he will throw us into a burning pit of fire for all eternity AND He is supposed to be somehow moral? I think this God is frankly insane. He is a tyrant and those who follow him are oppressed.

Technically, he doesn't send you to Hell. It's more of an opt-out kinda thing.

I'm of the view that one should state that "gods love" is conditional, because that's how it looks. If you are required to act a certain way to receive the benefit of his love it is not unconditional and certainly not universal. It seems god hates those who disobey and loves those who submit. And also it seems that a morality based on what god likes is arbitrary and therefore not moral, to put it another way, Judaeo-Christian values are seemingly amoral. So I equate submission to an amoral ruler's authority with tyranny.

See, He loves you unconditionally, but you have to make a choice. It's your choice to go to Hell or not, regardless of His love. It's like going to a party at a person's house who you went to high school with 20 years ago. If you were nice to them, they'll let you in. If you weren't then you won't get invited. Simple as that. God loves you, but you need to make that choice to believe and not go the Hell, regardless. It's up to you, not Him.

[Allbeama]

Yeah well here's a disconnect though... He loves us, but requires we submit to him or he will throw us into a burning pit of fire for all eternity AND He is supposed to be somehow moral? I think this God is frankly insane. He is a tyrant and those who follow him are oppressed.

I'm of the view that one should state that "gods love" is conditional, because that's how it looks. If you are required to act a certain way to receive the benefit of his love it is not unconditional and certainly not universal. It seems god hates those who disobey and loves those who submit. And also it seems that a morality based on what god likes is arbitrary and therefore not moral, to put it another way, Judaeo-Christian values are seemingly amoral. So I equate submission to an amoral ruler's authority with tyranny.

See, He loves you unconditionally, but you have to make a choice. It's your choice to go to Hell or not, regardless of His love. It's like going to a party at a person who you went to high school with 20 years ago. If you were nice to them, they'll let you in. If you weren't then you won't get invited. Simple as that. God loves you, but you need to make that choice to believe and not go the Hell, regardless. It's up to you, not Him.

That's not much of choice though, If someone points a gun at your head and commands you to kneel before him and you do was that your own free will motivating that decision?

[Clamparapa]

I'm of the view that one should state that "gods love" is conditional, because that's how it looks. If you are required to act a certain way to receive the benefit of his love it is not unconditional and certainly not universal. It seems god hates those who disobey and loves those who submit. And also it seems that a morality based on what god likes is arbitrary and therefore not moral, to put it another way, Judaeo-Christian values are seemingly amoral. So I equate submission to an amoral ruler's authority with tyranny.

See, He loves you unconditionally, but you have to make a choice. It's your choice to go to Hell or not, regardless of His love. It's like going to a party at a person who you went to high school with 20 years ago. If you were nice to them, they'll let you in. If you weren't then you won't get invited. Simple as that. God loves you, but you need to make that choice to believe and not go the Hell, regardless. It's up to you, not Him.

That's not much of choice though, If someone points a gun at your head and commands you to kneel before him and you do was that your own free will motivating that decision?

And yet, people still don't believe. It is a choice, because you can choose one or the other before it happens. You have ample time. Let me edit your analogy:

A guy holds a gun to your head and says "You have 60-70 years to bow down to me."

But, like I said, we shall all find out when we die. Like it says in the Bible, God is a jealous God, and will not have any Gods before him. I hate it when people say they're "Atheist". You're not Atheist. You follow something, whether it be family, money, job, etc. These are other Gods in His eyes.

And don't bother telling me that jealousy is a sin. God is allowed since He created us.