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Would your political oppinions change in a crisis?

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The USOT
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Would your political oppinions change in a crisis?

Postby The USOT » Tue Oct 18, 2011 2:21 pm

It should be explained beforehand that by Crisis, I mean of epic magnitude, as in apocalyptic or general societal collapse level of magnitude.

I was playing Metro 2033 for the first time the other day and loved the idea of russian nazis fighting "communists" in the metro. Both having forgotten the finer points of their ideal system, and both seeming to only remember the odd thing of the ideological history (e.g. the Nazis russian supremacism yet using german phrases, and communist soldiers talking about their want of wages etc) when it got me thinking. As hypocritical as it may sound being a libertarian, I could kinda understand why someone would turn down either path in such a situation. If you have seemingly little hope left in the world, and too much freedom from everyone could get you and your family killed, wouldnt you want to turn to something which promised you more than just survival, but hope? Something that offered security and stability?

In a non video game note, a lecturer at my university was telling me about something some of you may be aware of called black games. To put it basically, black games tend to be games designed to be thought provoking, descision based and horribly, horribly cruel to the player, the kind of game designed to make people feel miserable.
One hypothetical game he talked about was one where Britain has fallen to a nuclear war (like metro 2033) but is still habitable. In the game itself the player would take charge as the military commander responsible for leading the people of london to a more habitable area. The game itself forced people into situations where things like islamic seperatists and seiges kept occuring to the point where people created in game concentration camps to save their own people, only later having it pointed out to them what they had actually done.


So in short, do you beleive, or do you know if your own political beleifs would change in such a crisis? I would hope that I would still remain a libertarian, but tbh I couldnt honestly say.
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Tue Oct 18, 2011 2:25 pm

I can't imagine anyone could really say for sure, given that none of us have experienced a civilisation-destroying crisis. Of course I like to think I'd maintain my principles, but I who knows what I'd think walking through a post-apocalyptic wasteland*.












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The USOT
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Postby The USOT » Tue Oct 18, 2011 2:28 pm

Ifreann wrote:I can't imagine anyone could really say for sure, given that none of us have experienced a civilisation-destroying crisis. Of course I like to think I'd maintain my principles, but I who knows what I'd think walking through a post-apocalyptic wasteland*.












*Mojave, mo' problems. Am I right?
See fallout is an interesting example actually. There is even quite a few threads on the internet called "NCR v Caesars legion" regarding which path would be better under the circumstances. Caesars legion is hardly an unpopular answer.
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Contrary to the propaganda, we live in probably the least materialistic culture in history. If we cared about the things of the world, we would treat them quite differently. We would be concerned with their materiality. We would be interested in their beginnings and their ends, before and after they left our grasp.

Peter Timmerman, “Defending Materialism"

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Dumb Ideologies
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Postby Dumb Ideologies » Tue Oct 18, 2011 2:30 pm

I'll always support the penguin candidate, even in emergency.
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Frayham
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Postby Frayham » Tue Oct 18, 2011 2:31 pm

i think that in an apocalyptic crisis my political opinion would be irrelevant as i would be a bad ass demon killing mercenary with no need for politics
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New England and The Maritimes
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Postby New England and The Maritimes » Tue Oct 18, 2011 2:31 pm

I think I would greatly strip down my ideological beliefs in the name of security with something as catastrophic as the apocalypse, etc.
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Tue Oct 18, 2011 2:32 pm

The USOT wrote:
Ifreann wrote:I can't imagine anyone could really say for sure, given that none of us have experienced a civilisation-destroying crisis. Of course I like to think I'd maintain my principles, but I who knows what I'd think walking through a post-apocalyptic wasteland*.












*Mojave, mo' problems. Am I right?
See fallout is an interesting example actually. There is even quite a few threads on the internet called "NCR v Caesars legion" regarding which path would be better under the circumstances. Caesars legion is hardly an unpopular answer.

People are still making these decisions from the comfort of their bedrooms or whatever. It's one thing to sit pretty in a Western democracy and support Caesar's Legion, it's rather another to live in the wastes and take up a rifle to kill the profligates.

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Ceannairceach
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Postby Ceannairceach » Tue Oct 18, 2011 2:32 pm

I have a very finely tailored political ideology for several apocalypses, but if I keep with them is another matter. I could very well fold to the pressure.

@}-;-'---

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The Merchant Republics
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Postby The Merchant Republics » Tue Oct 18, 2011 2:33 pm

I'm a terribly lazy capitalist, and I tend to be obtusely charitable that's in normal life, I doubt my politics would change but my behaviour? Probably.
Last edited by The Merchant Republics on Tue Oct 18, 2011 2:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The Republic of Lanos
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Postby The Republic of Lanos » Tue Oct 18, 2011 2:34 pm

My opinions would change in times of crisis...don't know about oppinions though.

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Turan Federasyonu
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Postby Turan Federasyonu » Tue Oct 18, 2011 2:35 pm

no, i am fanatically anti-communist. On the principles of economic model- i may make some compromises

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Meryuma
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Postby Meryuma » Tue Oct 18, 2011 2:36 pm

Considering that a lot of my current political beliefs are predicated on economic collapse due to our current unsustainable way of life occurring, no.
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Postby Farnhamia » Tue Oct 18, 2011 2:36 pm

The USOT wrote:It should be explained beforehand that by Crisis, I mean of epic magnitude, as in apocalyptic or general societal collapse level of magnitude.

I was playing Metro 2033 for the first time the other day and loved the idea of russian nazis fighting "communists" in the metro. Both having forgotten the finer points of their ideal system, and both seeming to only remember the odd thing of the ideological history (e.g. the Nazis russian supremacism yet using german phrases, and communist soldiers talking about their want of wages etc) when it got me thinking. As hypocritical as it may sound being a libertarian, I could kinda understand why someone would turn down either path in such a situation. If you have seemingly little hope left in the world, and too much freedom from everyone could get you and your family killed, wouldnt you want to turn to something which promised you more than just survival, but hope? Something that offered security and stability?

In a non video game note, a lecturer at my university was telling me about something some of you may be aware of called black games. To put it basically, black games tend to be games designed to be thought provoking, descision based and horribly, horribly cruel to the player, the kind of game designed to make people feel miserable.
One hypothetical game he talked about was one where Britain has fallen to a nuclear war (like metro 2033) but is still habitable. In the game itself the player would take charge as the military commander responsible for leading the people of london to a more habitable area. The game itself forced people into situations where things like islamic seperatists and seiges kept occuring to the point where people created in game concentration camps to save their own people, only later having it pointed out to them what they had actually done.


So in short, do you beleive, or do you know if your own political beleifs would change in such a crisis? I would hope that I would still remain a libertarian, but tbh I couldnt honestly say.

Like you, I would hope I could stay true to my principles, but never having been in any situation that has tested them to that extent, I can't say.
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Patriqvinia
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Postby Patriqvinia » Tue Oct 18, 2011 2:38 pm

Nah, I don't think my political opinions would change... but I really wouldn't be thinking about them, I'd be thinking about staying alive. Though if I had to live in a communist type society for awhile, I simply wouldn't voice my opinions as long as I had to stay there, if the society was threatening, anyway.
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Turan Federasyonu
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Postby Turan Federasyonu » Tue Oct 18, 2011 2:39 pm

And İ have already lived in such a situation which tested them

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Mad hatters in jeans
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Postby Mad hatters in jeans » Tue Oct 18, 2011 2:40 pm

Ifreann wrote:
The USOT wrote:See fallout is an interesting example actually. There is even quite a few threads on the internet called "NCR v Caesars legion" regarding which path would be better under the circumstances. Caesars legion is hardly an unpopular answer.

People are still making these decisions from the comfort of their bedrooms or whatever. It's one thing to sit pretty in a Western democracy and support Caesar's Legion, it's rather another to live in the wastes and take up a rifle to kill the profligates.

oh those guys, i really wanted to do the legion quests but i couldn't stand being in their presence for more than a second without killing them.

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Bafuria
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Postby Bafuria » Tue Oct 18, 2011 2:41 pm

It is very common during crises for average citizens to turn barbaric.

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Ceannairceach
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Postby Ceannairceach » Tue Oct 18, 2011 2:41 pm

Turan Federasyonu wrote:And İ have already lived in such a situation which tested them

Really? What situation would that be?

@}-;-'---

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Danontul
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Postby Danontul » Tue Oct 18, 2011 2:42 pm

I am normally athiest, nihilist marxist from the Khmer Rouge and Fascist traditions but in a crisis I become a moderate christian social democrat.
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Mad hatters in jeans
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Postby Mad hatters in jeans » Tue Oct 18, 2011 2:42 pm

Bafuria wrote:It is very common during crises for average citizens to turn barbaric.

We are 9 meals away from anarchy.

i thought it was 3?

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Turan Federasyonu
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Postby Turan Federasyonu » Tue Oct 18, 2011 2:45 pm

Ceannairceach wrote:
Turan Federasyonu wrote:And İ have already lived in such a situation which tested them

Really? What situation would that be?

In the beginning of a transition from a communist to a market economy there is great chaos, increased poverty, sharp decline in the tandards The same is with the nationalism- the independence didnt bring prosperity in its firt years, we waited more than 10 year to feel a change. However, I didnt leave my staunchly nationalit and anti-left opinion.

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Ceannairceach
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Postby Ceannairceach » Tue Oct 18, 2011 2:46 pm

Turan Federasyonu wrote:
Ceannairceach wrote:Really? What situation would that be?

In the beginning of a transition from a communist to a market economy there is great chaos, increased poverty, sharp decline in the tandards The same is with the nationalism- the independence didnt bring prosperity in its firt years, we waited more than 10 year to feel a change. However, I didnt leave my staunchly nationalit and anti-left opinion.

That is hardly the apocalypse that has been described in the OP. I believe he's talking about complete and utter social and civil collapse.

@}-;-'---

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Romaniztan
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Postby Romaniztan » Tue Oct 18, 2011 2:47 pm

I feel like everybody would suddenly become radical communists, since that would be the only way to continue survival within a community after a crisis.

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Tahitoa
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Postby Tahitoa » Tue Oct 18, 2011 2:48 pm

My beliefs would definatley change if my life hangs in the balance. And is the post apocalyptic England game with the concentration camps real? It sounds fun

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Turan Federasyonu
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Postby Turan Federasyonu » Tue Oct 18, 2011 2:49 pm

Ceannairceach wrote:
Turan Federasyonu wrote:In the beginning of a transition from a communist to a market economy there is great chaos, increased poverty, sharp decline in the tandards The same is with the nationalism- the independence didnt bring prosperity in its firt years, we waited more than 10 year to feel a change. However, I didnt leave my staunchly nationalit and anti-left opinion.

That is hardly the apocalypse that has been described in the OP. I believe he's talking about complete and utter social and civil collapse.

There was a period in 1994-5 when the middle montly wage was 4-5 dollars (you could buy 20-25 loafs of bread with it.)
Isnt this a complete and total collapse?

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