Abortion(do guys have a say?)

[Jedi8246]

I have family in medical fields. It is common as I think it is.

Sure, honey, and I'm Marie of Romania. But you're right, it's as common as you think it is.

I don't know who Marie of Romania is, but nonetheless your implication that I don't have family in the medical field is insulting. Why I should lie about my family's professions just to prove a point in a debate with people like you, I know not, but I'm not pleased.

[Wiztopia]

Aren't strawmen fun?

Yes, actually she can escape dealing with a pregnancy.

It's called keeping her legs shut.

I like how he keeps purposely ignoring that he said this even when quoted multiple times.

[The Rich Port]

Shit, so do I.

THEY keep telling me how the biggest shock people get after having a baby is the bill for having one.

In-home births are becoming more common than hospital ones.

Maybe you should, oh I don't know, read your articles before saying they say things. Source I found within the article, proving you completely wrong.

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr56/nvsr56_06.pdf

And yet, despite that 99%, women STILL die.

Also, I get the feeling this all will end nowhere.

As I recall, this thread was about whether men should have a choice in an abortion.

[GeneralHaNor]

Also, I get the feeling this all will end nowhere.

As I recall, this thread was about whether men should have a choice in an abortion.

On just this point, all things being equal, as a man cannot be definition have any control over the medical decisions of another person without violating their bodily soverignity (which is agreed to be unalienable by the vast majority of people) he cannot (regardless of the current legality of said procedure) have any ethical right to force, or deny said procedure. The presence of his genetic material in a lifeform that may or may not have natural or legal rights cannot given him the authority to over-ride the bodily soverignity of another human being.


That being said, there must be some kind of equivalency, the ability for a man to not be a father against his will, just as a women has the ability to not be a mother against her will.
(and again, if "abstinence" isn't a legitimate option for ensuring so, then that must apply to both genders, any other answer is a sexist double standard)

[The Rich Port]

Also, I get the feeling this all will end nowhere.

As I recall, this thread was about whether men should have a choice in an abortion.

On just this point, all things being equal, as a man cannot be definition have any control over the medical decisions of another person without violating their bodily soverignity (which is agreed to be unalienable by the vast majority of people) he cannot (regardless of the current legality of said procedure) have any ethical right to force, or deny said procedure. The presence of his genetic material in a lifeform that may or may not have natural or legal rights cannot given him the authority to over-ride the bodily soverignity of another human being.


That being said, there must be some kind of equivalency, the ability for a man to not be a father against his will, just as a women has the ability to not be a mother against her will.
(and again, if "abstinence" isn't a legitimate option for ensuring so, then that must apply to both genders, any other answer is a sexist double standard)

That is reasonable, especially in a one-night stand.

[Jedi8246]

Maybe you should, oh I don't know, read your articles before saying they say things. Source I found within the article, proving you completely wrong.

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr56/nvsr56_06.pdf

And yet, despite that 99%, women STILL die.

Also, I get the feeling this all will end nowhere.

As I recall, this thread was about whether men should have a choice in an abortion.

Umm what source are you citing now. No where does it say 99% women die. That is false.

[The Rich Port]

And yet, despite that 99%, women STILL die.

Also, I get the feeling this all will end nowhere.

As I recall, this thread was about whether men should have a choice in an abortion.

Umm what source are you citing now. No where does it say 99% women die. That is false.

... 99% of women have births in HOSPITALS and yet some still die.

Did you even read the goddamn thing?

[Rockvill]

if the man has no say then he should not have to pay child support.

[West Harristan]

I swear, if my girlfriend aborted my child without telling me, i'd flip out.

Pregnant women who are getting an abortion should notify their male partner/husband, if he's responsible.

Unless her life's in danger, of course.

[Jedi8246]

Umm what source are you citing now. No where does it say 99% women die. That is false.

... 99% of women have births in HOSPITALS and yet some still die.

Did you even read the goddamn thing?

You should have typed that, instead of the first sentence.

In any case, of course some women still die. And still it is a small minority of women who die. A rare exception.

[The Rich Port]

I swear, if my girlfriend aborted my child without telling me, i'd flip out.

Pregnant women who are getting an abortion should notify their male partner/husband, if he's responsible.

Unless her life's in danger, of course.

Or if, you know, someone tries to kill her for doing it.

[Jedi8246]

I swear, if my girlfriend aborted my child without telling me, i'd flip out.

Pregnant women who are getting an abortion should notify their male partner/husband, if he's responsible.

Unless her life's in danger, of course.

Or if, you know, someone tries to kill her for doing it.

That guy wasn't serious.

[Farnhamia]

Sure, honey, and I'm Marie of Romania. But you're right, it's as common as you think it is.

I don't know who Marie of Romania is, but nonetheless your implication that I don't have family in the medical field is insulting. Why I should lie about my family's professions just to prove a point in a debate with people like you, I know not, but I'm not pleased.

Anyone here can make any claim about anything. I don't know you from a hole in the ground. Why should I believe what you say your family? Saying "I have family in medical fields" and expecting everyone to say, "Oh, well, okay, I concede the point, you're right," is not exactly a good debating tactic.

Gad, I actually typed "a whole in the ground"!

[Arkinesia]

So then would follow the question of whether or not a right to privacy is actually a natural inherent right like life, food, or water, and whether or not such a right extends to a potentially independent life.

To which I would say you'd have to jump through some pretty wacky hoops.

Life, food, water, are only available to those that can afford them.
My water bill was pretty high last month.

So…I'm paying money to continue living?

What?

[GeneralHaNor]

Life, food, water, are only available to those that can afford them.
My water bill was pretty high last month.

So…I'm paying money to continue living?

What?

Unless, you own your land, live off it, consume free water, and consume free food. yes, you are paying to continue living. if you are on governmental assistance, it's the government that's paying to keep you alive.

[Jedi8246]

I don't know who Marie of Romania is, but nonetheless your implication that I don't have family in the medical field is insulting. Why I should lie about my family's professions just to prove a point in a debate with people like you, I know not, but I'm not pleased.

Anyone here can make any claim about anything. I don't know you from a whole in the ground. Why should I believe what you say your family? Saying "I have family in medical fields" and expecting everyone to say, "Oh, well, okay, I concede the point, you're right," is not exactly a good debating tactic.

Why should you believe? Because most people are honest and good willed.

I didn't expect anyone to concede the point. I simply expected the idea of what I was saying to be more accepted, as I had a background in such areas.

[Neo Prion]

I think Abortion is wrong! There are much better alternatives to paying someone to end the life of an unborn child! Like utilizing a flight of stairs and saving on gas, can't we all just agree on that?

[Jedi8246]

Life, food, water, are only available to those that can afford them.
My water bill was pretty high last month.

So…I'm paying money to continue living?

What?

Unless you are in some rural backwoods areas, then yes you pay to live.

[The Rich Port]

Life, food, water, are only available to those that can afford them.
My water bill was pretty high last month.

So…I'm paying money to continue living?

What?

Welcome to the modern world.

It sucks, but it's better than living in Africa.

Although water is more about it's transportation to your house and it's cleaning rather than the water itself that is worth money to the plumbing companies.

[Saint Jade IV]

When there is a child, a man does have a say (usually). So your point is irrelevant. We're talking about things that happen prior to the creation of a child. Come back when you understand the argument, and have an opinion which is relevant, kthxbai.

Ooh, how condescending! Am I supposed to be impressed?

The argument here is whether a man has a say in whether a mother can abort their unborn child or not. I maintain that the man has a significant say.

So in short, go away. Stop trying to muddy the argument with useless crap.

If it's not born, its not a child. You're the one muddying the waters. I'm just trying to help you here.

In an ideal world, naturally, the woman would consult with the man regarding the situation. But we are dealing with reality here. And I'm not for women being held hostage by men who develop a sudden case of the morals over unborn entities with no rights.

I haven't left in about 8 years, so I really don't think you telling me to is particularly scary.

[Ethel mermania]

I have family in medical fields. It is common as I think it is.

Sure, honey, and I'm Marie of Romania. But you're right, it's as common as you think it is.

Aunt Marie? ?? Is that you, we have been looking all over Transylvania. We thought those dirty bouche got you.

[Aesthetica]

I have family in medical fields. It is common as I think it is.

Wow, Appeal to Authority Via Third Party
I haven't seen that one in ages

You need to get out more...
A2AVTP is alive and well, unfortunately...

[Saint Jade IV]

I swear, if my girlfriend aborted my child without telling me, i'd flip out.

Pregnant women who are getting an abortion should notify their male partner/husband, if he's responsible.

Unless her life's in danger, of course.

I think that is a most sensible proposition that we can all agree on. But impossible to legislate. Of course, most women will be getting pregnant in stable, loving relationships. Of course it is absolutely reasonable to expect that a woman would discuss her situation with that partner, and take his feelings into consideration.

But to legislate that as a requirement causes unexpected and potentially dangerous situations for women.

[Neo Prion]

Sure, honey, and I'm Marie of Romania. But you're right, it's as common as you think it is.

I don't know who Marie of Romania is, but nonetheless your implication that I don't have family in the medical field is insulting. Why I should lie about my family's professions just to prove a point in a debate with people like you, I know not, but I'm not pleased.

My dad's a doctor is not a cruise control to success in debate. I would know a little something about debating, my dad is the president after all.

[Jedi8246]

I don't know who Marie of Romania is, but nonetheless your implication that I don't have family in the medical field is insulting. Why I should lie about my family's professions just to prove a point in a debate with people like you, I know not, but I'm not pleased.

My dad's a doctor is not a cruise control to success in debate. I would know a little something about debating, my dad is the president after all.

My dad isn't a doctor though. Nor did I take it to be cruise control for success. Obviously no succes is being made.