Abortion(do guys have a say?)

[Ceannairceach]

You didn't address my point. At all. Why should people abstain?

Because it's the responsible thing to do unless you're prepared to face the consequences.

Do you drive your car out of the driveway to go on a joy ride without expecting to pay for gas later?

And getting an abortion is facing the consequences. What's so hard to get about that?

[Ashmoria]

Pregnancy doesn't leave you nearly disabled. I realize there is much discomfort, but life is important than that. And like I've stated, we know what can happens when you have sex.

I've heard stories from my theology teacher about women who have farmed and given birth to their children behind bushes. Pregnancy sucks but it not like someone cut off some of your limbs.

when you have been pregnant you can talk about it.

it is very debilitating and very dangerous. some women spend MONTHS on bed rest so that they can successfully deliver a healthy child.

[New England and The Maritimes]

The part where every woman who gets pregnant is a stupid whore who should have shut her dumb slut legs if she didn't want to be pregnant and carry it to term.

Aren't strawmen fun?

Yes, actually she can escape dealing with a pregnancy.

It's called keeping her legs shut.

[GeneralHaNor]

The law is enforcement of moral code.

Murder is illegal and abortion is not. What part of that are you having a problem with?

The part where I give a damm about what the law says
Remember, the Japanese aren't people, and slavery is totally cool and shit.

[Farnhamia]

Yes, and abortion is one way of dealing with that possibility. What business of yours is it what I do with the contents of my womb?

When the contents of your womb will eventually become a person with a say who would NEVER consent to being flushed down a damn drain...

Considerable.

The contents have not yet become a person. If I were to kill a child, mine or someone else's, yes, you would have an interest because that would make me a murderer. Until those contents become a person, you can just go away, that you very much.

[Ceannairceach]

Yes, and abortion is one way of dealing with that possibility. What business of yours is it what I do with the contents of my womb?

When the contents of your womb will eventually become a person with a say who would NEVER consent to being flushed down a damn drain...

Considerable.

But they don't object now. Because they can't. They have the same amount of ability to vocalize their disagreement as a goldfish.

[Hellenic Protectorates]

I don't have a problem with that at all.

My problem is the ways that abortion is being used.

None of your business.

The "none of your business" argument is as overused as it is flawed.

Millions are poor and hungry in Africa. By your reasoning it's none of our business because those countries' autocratic rulers should be able to do what they want with their own country.

[Jedi8246]

The law is enforcement of moral code.

uhhuh

and what is your point?

You wanna say that we are trying to force moral code by saying when abortions should happen. That's what you are doing by saying abortion should happen when you say.

[Eridanuus]

sure, they have a say. It doesnt mean the women has to listen to them, though

Agreed

[Hellenic Protectorates]

When the contents of your womb will eventually become a person with a say who would NEVER consent to being flushed down a damn drain...

Considerable.

But they don't object now. Because they can't. They have the same amount of ability to vocalize their disagreement as a goldfish.

So then, wouldn't animal cruelty laws apply in this case?

Be careful. You're cornering yourself.

[Ashmoria]

Really? You really deny how difficult it is to be pregnant? I can scarcely believe it...

And as I've stated, the possibility has nothing to do with anything. Consent to sex doesn't equal consent to pregnancy.

Consent to sex = consent to the possibility of pregnancy

Saying otherwise is flat out denying biology.

of course it is.

for both the man and the woman (if its manman or womanwoman, not so much.)

so if the woman gets pregnant she has to deal with it. abortion is one option of how to deal with it.

[The Rich Port]

Aren't strawmen fun?

Yes, actually she can escape dealing with a pregnancy.

It's called keeping her legs shut.

Well, he didn't say anywhere in that post the word "rape".

'Cuz, you know, women's legs can't be FORCED apart.

Yes, and abortion is one way of dealing with that possibility. What business of yours is it what I do with the contents of my womb?

When the contents of your womb will eventually become a person with a say who would NEVER consent to being flushed down a damn drain...

Considerable.

I think you have a very distorted view of the whole thing.

Do you think people murder future human beings arbitrarily?

Do you think it's like tossing away a... Well, a mass of cells, for these people?

[Ceannairceach]

But they don't object now. Because they can't. They have the same amount of ability to vocalize their disagreement as a goldfish.

So then, wouldn't animal cruelty laws apply in this case?

Be careful. You're cornering yourself.

Sure. Lets go by that. The fetus should be terminated because it can't function by itself, not even biologically. And, like a heavily injured animal, it has to be put down.

You said something about cornering...?

[Farnhamia]

Murder is illegal and abortion is not. What part of that are you having a problem with?

The part where I give a damm about what the law says
Remember, the Japanese aren't people, and slavery is totally cool and shit.

So change the law and make abortion illegal. It's your right. Or are you one of those who can't be bothered lifting a finger to work for your moral principles but enjoy lecturing everyone here about them, I forget?

[Hellenic Protectorates]

When the contents of your womb will eventually become a person with a say who would NEVER consent to being flushed down a damn drain...

Considerable.

The contents have not yet become a person. If I were to kill a child, mine or someone else's, yes, you would have an interest because that would make me a murderer. Until those contents become a person, you can just go away, that you very much.

I'm assuming you're Lockeian, right?

[New England and The Maritimes]

Well, he didn't say anywhere in that post the word "rape".

'Cuz, you know, women's legs can't be FORCED apart.

Women don't get the right to decide what happens to their bodies where possible. Obviously women are demonstrably not human beings and as such aren't entitled to these rights. Otherwise, him and the rest of the anti choice brigade might be... wrong.

[Jedi8246]

I've heard stories from my theology teacher about women who have farmed and given birth to their children behind bushes. Pregnancy sucks but it not like someone cut off some of your limbs.

when you have been pregnant you can talk about it.

it is very debilitating and very dangerous. some women spend MONTHS on bed rest so that they can successfully deliver a healthy child.

What century do you live in? Modern medical technology allows most women to work for the majority of their pregnancy. The case you state is an exception, not a rule.

[Farnhamia]

None of your business.

The "none of your business" argument is as overused as it is flawed.

Millions are poor and hungry in Africa. By your reasoning it's none of our business because those countries' autocratic rulers should be able to do what they want with their own country.

False equivalence. Starvation in Africa is not the same as you keeping your legal fingers out of my womb.

[Hellenic Protectorates]

So then, wouldn't animal cruelty laws apply in this case?

Be careful. You're cornering yourself.

Sure. Lets go by that. The fetus should be terminated because it can't function by itself, not even biologically. And, like a heavily injured animal, it has to be put down.

You said something about cornering...?

Ah ah ah, now you're putting words in my mouth.

You said "as a goldfish". Goldfish aren't inherently incapable of supporting themselves. Fetuses are not injured.

[Newmoonrising]

I've heard stories from my theology teacher about women who have farmed and given birth to their children behind bushes. Pregnancy sucks but it not like someone cut off some of your limbs.

when you have been pregnant you can talk about it.

it is very debilitating and very dangerous. some women spend MONTHS on bed rest so that they can successfully deliver a healthy child.

And some don't, your point? It's not a blanket thing, My theology teacher was a medical practitioner. Also in most developed countries the danger is lessened allot.

[Hellenic Protectorates]

The "none of your business" argument is as overused as it is flawed.

Millions are poor and hungry in Africa. By your reasoning it's none of our business because those countries' autocratic rulers should be able to do what they want with their own country.

False equivalence. Starvation in Africa is not the same as you keeping your legal fingers out of my womb.

Actually, by your reasoning it's exactly the same.

Name a difference.

[The Rich Port]

The contents have not yet become a person. If I were to kill a child, mine or someone else's, yes, you would have an interest because that would make me a murderer. Until those contents become a person, you can just go away, that you very much.

I'm assuming you're Lockeian, right?

I'm assuming that YOU are only half a Republican.

This social "conservative" view that abortions should be banned conflicts with the other "conservative" view that the government should not intervene in the private lives of citizens.

Well, he didn't say anywhere in that post the word "rape".

'Cuz, you know, women's legs can't be FORCED apart.

Women don't get the right to decide what happens to their bodies where possible. Obviously women are demonstrably not human beings and as such aren't entitled to these rights. Otherwise, him and the rest of the anti choice brigade might be... wrong.

You read my MIND.

[GeneralHaNor]

The part where I give a damm about what the law says
Remember, the Japanese aren't people, and slavery is totally cool and shit.

So change the law and make abortion illegal. It's your right. Or are you one of those who can't be bothered lifting a finger to work for your moral principles but enjoy lecturing everyone here about them, I forget?

Neither. I just have zero confidence in the ability of the state to act in any fashion other then it's own self-interest, the only laws that get passed are the ones that benefit the powers that be.

[Ashmoria]

uhhuh

and what is your point?

You wanna say that we are trying to force moral code by saying when abortions should happen. That's what you are doing by saying abortion should happen when you say.

im not saying anything about when abortions should happen. that decision is up to the woman who chooses it. i am as against forcing a woman to have an abortion as i am against outlawing legal abortion.

you arent actually forcing a moral code either. you have no say over whether or not abortions happen. all *I* am saying is that other people have no reason to take YOUR personal moral code into consideration when making their own life decisions.

[Hellenic Protectorates]

I'm assuming you're Lockeian, right?

I'm assuming that YOU are only half a Republican.

This social "conservative" view that abortions should be banned conflicts with the other "conservative" view that the government should not intervene in the private lives of citizens.

Falsely assuming I'm a Republican. Strike one.